A Sea Of Red

So Manson has posted his picks for 25-6. Here they are:

https://www.aseaofred.com/ranking-the-t ... time-10-6/

Having that to look at, the top 5 is a no-brainer. In alphabetical order:

Bailey Alston
Peter Aluma
Larry Blair
Karl Hess
Caleb Homesley

I could pick quite a few nits, but overall it's a really solid list. We could definitely go round and round on the order of the top 5 (which is why I did the alphabetical cop-out.)

IMHO
Most glaring omission.
Ed Vickers

Least deserving.
Davon Marshall

I can't imagine anyone who saw them both concluding Marshall is the better player, especially considering he only played 2 years and pretty much mailed it in for the second one. Ed would be at least top 15 on my list. Maybe top 10.

Marshall had one of the biggest runs for the school when he scorched through the big south tourney, but other than that run, he’s an average player. Being an average player on a terrible team inflated his counting stats a bit.

What stands out to me are the players who would’ve ranked higher probably, had they been here longer. Curry obviously, but also Gabe Martin. He was more talented than guys like Cuffee and Cabbill, just didn’t have the career longevity. And I think Anthony Smith was better than McGhee, but I don’t mind withholding my final judgment on McGhee until after his senior season.

Alex McLean and Scottie James would’ve been bigger with extra years too.

JK37 wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 12:04 pm What stands out to me are the players who would’ve ranked higher probably, had they been here longer. Curry obviously, but also Gabe Martin. He was more talented than guys like Cuffee and Cabbill, just didn’t have the career longevity. And I think Anthony Smith was better than McGhee, but I don’t mind withholding my final judgment on McGhee until after his senior season.

Ed Vickers falls into that category JK. Transfer from NC A&T who played 3 years (just 86 games) at Liberty and yet finished 2nd all-time in total rebounds. His 12.7 rpg is head and shoulders above everyone, and he was only 6'5". Playing in the era when every shot counted for just 2 points, he focused his scoring efforts inside, but he could shoot, and I believe he would have scored a lot more under the modern rules.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 11:55 am Marshall had one of the biggest runs for the school when he scorched through the big south tourney, but other than that run, he’s an average player. Being an average player on a terrible team inflated his counting stats a bit.

Excellent 3 point shooter with deep range. "Fair-to-middlin" D1 player overall. For me, an even bigger reason he should not be on this list is the way he publicly threw his team and coach under the bus his Senior year by saying basketball was no longer "fun" for him.

One omission that could maybe take JC or Davon’s place from those same years- Tomasz Gielo. I felt like he never really put it all together, but he was probably the most talented on the roster during those Layer years.

I would have to put Matt Hilldebrand in serious conversation for the top 5, maybe replacing Homeseley. 90% FT shooter, the guy you wanted with the ball at the end of the game. Very high basketball IQ, etc. But I wouldn't want to live off the difference between the two. Just my initial thought. FWIW
It is also difficult to compare players from different era's and competition. George Sweet was a much better player than Kim Chafin and should be somewhere in the Top 25.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 12:53 pm One omission that could maybe take JC or Davon’s place from those same years- Tomasz Gielo. I felt like he never really put it all together, but he was probably the most talented on the roster during those Layer years.

Loved Gielo’s game. For some reason it was just never all put together. I just don’t think they knew how to utilize him or that they wanted him as a Foundation for the team. But for whatever reason, it just never materialized like I thought it would have

There was a lot to like there, but he had a tendency to fade late in games.

So, who are the truest impact players? The guys that pushed the program up? Maybe 10-15 guys? IMO the best of the best would be the three-level scoring guards who come through in the clutch...finish games...lead the team..and create opportunities...in other words...winning guard play

Pure Guards: Curry, Hildebrand, and Cabbil...no particular order

Swing guys: Homesley, Smith, Cuffe, Martin...no particular order

Bigs: Nwosu, Coleman, James, Dixon, Alumna...no particular order

...add Jesse Sanders to next tier...make an exception for NAIA Eric Gordon...asterisk McGhee who is still playing...that makes 15.

paradox wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 8:15 pm So, who are the truest impact players? The guys that pushed the program up? Maybe 10-15 guys? IMO the best of the best would be the three-level scoring guards who come through in the clutch...finish games...lead the team..and create opportunities...in other words...winning guard play

Pure Guards: Curry, Hildebrand, and Cabbil...no particular order

Swing guys: Homesley, Smith, Cuffe, Martin...no particular order

Bigs: Nwosu, Coleman, James, Dixon, Alumna...no particular order

...add Jesse Sanders to next tier...make an exception for NAIA Eric Gordon...asterisk McGhee who is still playing...that makes 15.

15 players and no mention of Bailey Alston.
You just lost all cred.

I liked him. Fun player to watch, and I can see why he's a fan favorite for some, but far from complete. Probably among the most athletic if not the most athletic LU player ever.

Gomes?
Scar?
Soro?

Purple Haize wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 2:49 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 12:53 pm One omission that could maybe take JC or Davon’s place from those same years- Tomasz Gielo. I felt like he never really put it all together, but he was probably the most talented on the roster during those Layer years.

Loved Gielo’s game. For some reason it was just never all put together. I just don’t think they knew how to utilize him or that they wanted him as a Foundation for the team. But for whatever reason, it just never materialized like I thought it would have

I remember your man-crush on Tomasz.
Maybe they didn't know how to utilize him.
Maybe they didn't want him as a "foundation for the team".
Or maybe.............................. just MAYBE
he was really just a solid stretch 4 who could shoot the 3, but made a ton of turnovers when he tried to handle the ball too much.

Purple Haize wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 9:03 pm Gomes?
Scar?
Soro?

Good stuff....Hey, where's that Fonzie entrance?

olldflame wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 9:08 pm

Purple Haize wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 2:49 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 12:53 pm One omission that could maybe take JC or Davon’s place from those same years- Tomasz Gielo. I felt like he never really put it all together, but he was probably the most talented on the roster during those Layer years.

Loved Gielo’s game. For some reason it was just never all put together. I just don’t think they knew how to utilize him or that they wanted him as a Foundation for the team. But for whatever reason, it just never materialized like I thought it would have

I remember your man-crush on Tomasz.
Maybe they didn't know how to utilize him.
Maybe they didn't want him as a "foundation for the team".
Or maybe.............................. just MAYBE
he was really just a solid stretch 4 who could shoot the 3, but made a ton of turnovers when he tried to handle the ball too much.

Tomasz was too timid, I don’t think he had the assertiveness to be the foundation for a team, whether they wanted him for that role or not. He was never looking for his shot. If he had more of a killer instinct, he could have been special. Then again, if he had more of a killer instinct he could have gone high-major.

paradox wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 8:58 pm I liked him. Fun player to watch, and I can see why he's a fan favorite for some, but far from complete. Probably among the most athletic if not the most athletic LU player ever.

Also the best scorer (would have smashed Hess' record if he had played 4 years.) In addition, he was (by far) our best player as we made the transition from D2 to D1. ("Moved the program forward")

No, he did not play a lot of D.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 9:35 pm

olldflame wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 9:08 pm

Purple Haize wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 2:49 pm

Loved Gielo’s game. For some reason it was just never all put together. I just don’t think they knew how to utilize him or that they wanted him as a Foundation for the team. But for whatever reason, it just never materialized like I thought it would have

I remember your man-crush on Tomasz.
Maybe they didn't know how to utilize him.
Maybe they didn't want him as a "foundation for the team".
Or maybe.............................. just MAYBE
he was really just a solid stretch 4 who could shoot the 3, but made a ton of turnovers when he tried to handle the ball too much.

Tomasz was too timid, I don’t think he had the assertiveness to be the foundation for a team, whether they wanted him for that role or not. He was never looking for his shot. If he had more of a killer instinct, he could have been special. Then again, if he had more of a killer instinct he could have gone high-major.

Is the SEC high-major? Because he went there. Had an OK year at Ole Miss, but was in and out with a nagging injury.

Stokes said it best...nice skillset...but lacked that killer instinct.

olldflame wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 9:37 pm

paradox wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 8:58 pm I liked him. Fun player to watch, and I can see why he's a fan favorite for some, but far from complete. Probably among the most athletic if not the most athletic LU player ever.

Also the best scorer (would have smashed Hess' record if he had played 4 years.) In addition, he was (by far) our best player as we made the transition from D2 to D1. ("Moved the program forward")

No, he did not play a lot of D.

From what I'm told that '83 NAIA team really moved things forward in terms of preparation...and set the stage for the '92 run...from what I've heard, '83 NAIA competition was much stronger than early BSC. Should've gone to the NCAAs in '92. Missed opportunity. Students and administration were just happy to be there. Few realize that it should've been much more than that.

Was LBC no longer in the NCCAA in 1983? That was my senior year at Tenn. Temple.

Cider Jim wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 10:02 pm Was LBC no longer in the NCCAA in 1983? That was my senior year at Tenn. Temple.

We should hang our NCCAA Natty banner in the Lil'Arena.

NAIA was really strong in '83. That was the year that Chaminade beat #1 UVA and #5 Louisville in regular season, but lost to College of Charleston in the final. We lost a close game to Chaminade in the final-8, I think?

Eric Gordon had a memorable game battling future NBA all-star Terry Porter in a game that we won.

paradox wrote: ↑July 1st, 2021, 10:10 pm NAIA was really strong in '83. That was the year that Chaminade beat #1 UVA and #5 Louisville in regular season, but lost to College of Charleston in the final. We lost a close game to Chaminade in the final-8, I think?

Eric Gordon had a memorable game battling future NBA all-star Terry Porter in a game that we won.

NAIA in the 80’s and early 90’s was pretty good.