If roundball is your blood, this is the place to discuss the Flames as they move into the Ritchie McKay era for the 2nd time.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By paradox
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#628146
Many great guards in NAIA due to the slow pace of the NCAAs of that time. Four-corners and forward-oriented scoring were chic in the NCAA. Time clock and three-point line in NCAAs changed all that? Wasn't Scottie Pippen NAIA? He was probably a late-bloomer, though.
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By Sly Fox
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#628149
Pippen arrived at then NAIA now ASUN competitor Central Arkansas as a 6' 2" guard and then promptly grew 6 inches his freshman year. That is an anomaly.

We played Wisconsin-Stevens Point back in the day? I knew EG faced Porter's Blazers teammate Jerome Kersey at Longwood.

The most athletic guys I remember watching in an LU uniform in addition to Bailey were Rodney "Fish" Harrison, Dwight Brewington, Anthony Smith and that dude wo transferred in from WVU who played for Hanky whose name escapes me now. Gabe Martin and Darius would be in the discussion as well.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#628150
Sly Fox wrote: July 1st, 2021, 10:30 pm Pippen arrived at then NAIA now ASUN competitor Central Arkansas as a 6' 2" guard and then promptly grew 6 inches his freshman year. That is an anomaly.

We played Wisconsin-Stevens Point back in the day? I knew EG faced Porter's Blazers teammate Jerome Kersey at Longwood.
Makes you wonder how close was Gordon to NBA caliber? They probably deemed him undersized at barely 6ft. But he could play.
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By Cider Jim
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#628152
Sly Fox wrote: July 1st, 2021, 10:30 pm
The most athletic guys I remember watching in an LU uniform in addition to Bailey were Rodney "Fish" Harrison, Dwight Brewington, Anthony Smith and that dude wo transferred in from WVU who played for Hanky whose name escapes me now.
LU also had a transfer from Michigan State who was a power forward that helped us beat VA Tech in Blacksburg. What was his name?
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By Cider Jim
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#628156
paradox wrote: July 1st, 2021, 10:47 pm Was that Parish Hickman?
YES--I was thinking Parish, but couldn't come up with a last name. Was that a JM or RD coached team? :dontgetit
By flamehunter
Registration Days Posts
#628159
Cider Jim wrote: July 1st, 2021, 10:02 pm Was LBC no longer in the NCCAA in 1983? Play Basketball That was my senior year at Tenn. Temple. Study
No they were not in NCCAA then. I came in the fall of '82 they were NAIA then.
Looking back at records, 81-82 was the first year at NAIA.
Edit: Actually I think 80-81 was the first year, after winning the NCCAA national title in 79-80.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#628160
olldflame wrote: July 1st, 2021, 12:34 pm
stokesjokes wrote: July 1st, 2021, 11:55 am Marshall had one of the biggest runs for the school when he scorched through the big south tourney, but other than that run, he’s an average player. Being an average player on a terrible team inflated his counting stats a bit.
Excellent 3 point shooter with deep range. "Fair-to-middlin" D1 player overall. For me, an even bigger reason he should not be on this list is the way he publicly threw his team and coach under the bus his Senior year by saying basketball was no longer "fun" for him.
Definitely a tremendous deep three shooter. Couldn't find space his second year, mostly because he wasn't effective enough attacking the rim and pulling-up. He missed Tavares Speaks. Speaks would be a top-25 guy for me. Speaks took a lot of pressure off Marshall. TS was spraying mid-range jumpers all over floor. Defenses had to account for that. Underrated.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#628162
paradox wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 8:51 am
olldflame wrote: July 1st, 2021, 12:34 pm
stokesjokes wrote: July 1st, 2021, 11:55 am Marshall had one of the biggest runs for the school when he scorched through the big south tourney, but other than that run, he’s an average player. Being an average player on a terrible team inflated his counting stats a bit.
Excellent 3 point shooter with deep range. "Fair-to-middlin" D1 player overall. For me, an even bigger reason he should not be on this list is the way he publicly threw his team and coach under the bus his Senior year by saying basketball was no longer "fun" for him.
Definitely a tremendous deep three shooter. Couldn't find space his second year, mostly because he wasn't effective enough attacking the rim and pulling-up. He missed Tavares Speaks. Speaks would be a top-25 guy for me. Speaks took a lot of pressure off Marshall. TS was spraying mid-range jumpers all over floor. Defenses had to account for that. Underrated.
I can’t believe we ran a line-up with Davon and JC as the starting backcourt for two years. They were skilled players but they were not D-1 athletes.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#628163
WVU transfer = Carl Williams. Superb athlete.

Catlett was very ticked when Hanky left WVU, and then doubly so when CW transferred.

Savant mind, solid Christian testimony, voracious recruiter .. average teacher and poor motivator. NOT a head coach. Which is why none of his guys are on this list, haha!
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By LUOrange
Posts
#628164
Williams was Big East Defensive Player of the Year when he transferred here. He only came because of Hanky. But yes, Hanky could recruit and be a great assistant, even had a solid reputation in those abilities. But he was obviously a horrible HC..
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#628167
JK37 wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 10:23 am [Hanky] Savant mind, solid Christian testimony, voracious recruiter .. average teacher and poor motivator. NOT a head coach.
How many pages was that famous playbook of his??? I think only Honors student and National Merit Finalist Rob Attaway committed it to memory. Study Play Basketball

Hanky was Head Coach at Master's College in CA, too, I think.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#628172
LUOrange wrote: July 1st, 2021, 10:06 pm
Cider Jim wrote: July 1st, 2021, 10:02 pm Was LBC no longer in the NCCAA in 1983? Play Basketball That was my senior year at Tenn. Temple. Study
We should hang our NCCAA Natty banner in the Lil'Arena.
I agree. Not hanging it (or the NAIA banner from 83) in the Vines when we built it was 100% the decision of Jeff Meyer, who wanted to focus on our future accomplishments as a D1 program. While I understand his reasoning, I disagreed with the decision at the time, and I think this is the perfect time to put them back up.
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By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#628173
LUOrange wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 11:46 am Williams was Big East Defensive Player of the Year when he transferred here. He only came because of Hanky. But yes, Hanky could recruit and be a great assistant, even had a solid reputation in those abilities. But he was obviously a horrible HC..
Carl had a great Christian testimony, and wasn’t playing enough at WVU.

Are you being facetious about the BE DPoY or something? Because that never literally happened. Because he was a great athlete always underutilized at WVU. Maybe you mean his best friend Adrian Pledger?

AP was a professing Christian, too. But he once said of Carl, “He’s really Christian. He even listens to Christian music!” Never forgot that. THAT is also why Carl came to LU.
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By LUOrange
Posts
#628175
JK37 wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 1:37 pm
LUOrange wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 11:46 am Williams was Big East Defensive Player of the Year when he transferred here. He only came because of Hanky. But yes, Hanky could recruit and be a great assistant, even had a solid reputation in those abilities. But he was obviously a horrible HC..
Carl had a great Christian testimony, and wasn’t playing enough at WVU.

Are you being facetious about the BE DPoY or something? Because that never literally happened. Because he was a great athlete always underutilized at WVU. Maybe you mean his best friend Adrian Pledger?

AP was a professing Christian, too. But he once said of Carl, “He’s really Christian. He even listens to Christian music!” Never forgot that. THAT is also why Carl came to LU.
No, that's was what I remember being told when he transferred. Could be wrong, I guess. I never fact checked it. But he seemed like a good guy and was a good player. I never interacted with him like I did with some of the guys in the mid-90's when I was a student.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#628176
Top 5 has dropped and Manson has some 'splaining to do.

1. Peter Aluma
2. Caleb Homesley
3. Larry Blair
4. Bailey Alston
5. Karl Hess

I will listen to a debate about Aluma or Alston at #1. But there is no way Bailey should be at #4. Number four!?! Any suggestion that Larry Blair was a better player than Bailey is done purely out of ignorance.
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#628177
Sly Fox wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 3:19 pm There is no way Bailey should be at #4. Number four!?! Any suggestion that Larry Blair was a better player than Bailey is done purely out of ignorance.
Like Sly, I saw Bailey Alston play. Although he played in the Multipurpose Center with its rubber floor, he was the real deal and probably the best shooting guard to ever wear an LU uniform (other than Seth, who only played one year).
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#628190
Sly Fox wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 3:19 pm Top 5 has dropped and Manson has some 'splaining to do.

1. Peter Aluma
2. Caleb Homesley
3. Larry Blair
4. Bailey Alston
5. Karl Hess

I will listen to a debate about Aluma or Alston at #1. But there is no way Bailey should be at #4. Number four!?! Any suggestion that Larry Blair was a better player than Bailey is done purely out of ignorance.
Agree 100000% Sly. That is the problem with picking the "Top" anything at LU. Many of the people who provide the input, were not even born, when some of these guys played. There are two guys in the top 5, that I would replace with other players . FWIW, I have seen every player who has ever donned a LU uniform. In addition, the quality of competition has changed dramatically over the years.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#628194
So, then, it would only stand to reason that we separate the different eras appropriately. Lumping these guys all together doesn't seem to make much sense. Makes things cloudy & incoherent.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#628195
stokesjokes wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 10:06 am
paradox wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 8:51 am
olldflame wrote: July 1st, 2021, 12:34 pm

Excellent 3 point shooter with deep range. "Fair-to-middlin" D1 player overall. For me, an even bigger reason he should not be on this list is the way he publicly threw his team and coach under the bus his Senior year by saying basketball was no longer "fun" for him.
Definitely a tremendous deep three shooter. Couldn't find space his second year, mostly because he wasn't effective enough attacking the rim and pulling-up. He missed Tavares Speaks. Speaks would be a top-25 guy for me. Speaks took a lot of pressure off Marshall. TS was spraying mid-range jumpers all over floor. Defenses had to account for that. Underrated.
I can’t believe we ran a line-up with Davon and JC as the starting backcourt for two years. They were skilled players but they were not D-1 athletes.
They both had limitations as most D1 players do. In order to be a complete player as a guard, you need to be able to hit that deep ball consistently. You also need a quick first step and hard drive with finish in the paint. In order to be special, you would also have the ability to drive hard, pull-up, stop on a dime, and hit that jumper. We've only had a few guys in program history who could do that consistently, to varying degrees...Gordon, Hildebrand, Curry, Cabbil, Homesley. I'm looking for Darius to be a little more consistent with his off-dribble shooting this year.
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By LUOrange
Posts
#628235
paradox wrote: July 3rd, 2021, 1:51 am
stokesjokes wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 10:06 am
paradox wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 8:51 am

Definitely a tremendous deep three shooter. Couldn't find space his second year, mostly because he wasn't effective enough attacking the rim and pulling-up. He missed Tavares Speaks. Speaks would be a top-25 guy for me. Speaks took a lot of pressure off Marshall. TS was spraying mid-range jumpers all over floor. Defenses had to account for that. Underrated.
I can’t believe we ran a line-up with Davon and JC as the starting backcourt for two years. They were skilled players but they were not D-1 athletes.
They both had limitations as most D1 players do. In order to be a complete player as a guard, you need to be able to hit that deep ball consistently. You also need a quick first step and hard drive with finish in the paint. In order to be special, you would also have the ability to drive hard, pull-up, stop on a dime, and hit that jumper. We've only had a few guys in program history who could do that consistently, to varying degrees...Gordon, Hildebrand, Curry, Cabbil, Homesley. I'm looking for Darius to be a little more consistent with his off-dribble shooting this year.
Don't forget Larry Jackson.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#628240
LUOrange wrote: July 3rd, 2021, 11:30 pm
paradox wrote: July 3rd, 2021, 1:51 am
stokesjokes wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 10:06 am

I can’t believe we ran a line-up with Davon and JC as the starting backcourt for two years. They were skilled players but they were not D-1 athletes.
They both had limitations as most D1 players do. In order to be a complete player as a guard, you need to be able to hit that deep ball consistently. You also need a quick first step and hard drive with finish in the paint. In order to be special, you would also have the ability to drive hard, pull-up, stop on a dime, and hit that jumper. We've only had a few guys in program history who could do that consistently, to varying degrees...Gordon, Hildebrand, Curry, Cabbil, Homesley. I'm looking for Darius to be a little more consistent with his off-dribble shooting this year.
Don't forget Larry Jackson.
Very solid catch and shoot guy. Could've done more, but primarily a 2-guard. Unfortunately, he had to deal with several strange irregularities that had nothing to do with him, but greatly impacted the team and program as a whole. Certainly not his fault. '97 still leaves a bad taste for many.
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By LUOrange
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#628245
I enjoyed watching him play. He was really good, and he and Marcus White made a solid backcourt. I'm not sure that I know the back story that you're referring to, other than them losing in the BSC tournament finals in the Vines for the second straight year Meyer's firing. I saw him around campus a lot, but never spoke to him. Do know he dated Erma Williams (WBB back then) for a while, she was was really nice.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#628255
LUOrange wrote: July 4th, 2021, 4:25 pm I enjoyed watching him play. He was really good, and he and Marcus White made a solid backcourt. I'm not sure that I know the back story that you're referring to, other than them losing in the BSC tournament finals in the Vines for the second straight year Meyer's firing. I saw him around campus a lot, but never spoke to him. Do know he dated Erma Williams (WBB back then) for a while, she was was really nice.
For the record. By her Senior year, Erma's last name was Jackson 8)

The situation paradox referred to was the mass suspension of other players for a variety of misdeeds and the departure of coach Meyer as a result of the stupidity of the administration. This led to our team, which would have been possibly the most talented we ever had, being severely undermanned under interim coach RD Larry's Senior year. He did everything he could (including a great game in leading us to our first ever win over UVA) but it wasn't enough to avoid a disappointing season overall and the "search committee" which gave us the Hanky era.
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