If roundball is your blood, this is the place to discuss the Flames as they move into the Ritchie McKay era for the 2nd time.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By olldflame
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#575345
Purple Haize wrote:
A Sea of Red wrote:An Investment Worth Making

http://www.aseaofred.com/an-investment-worth-making/
Good article. Cooley at Providence must have gotten a bump. We saw Providence a couple times at the NCAA tournament and that guy was great. We were shocked he was “only” making $400k. But back to RMK, he deserves to be on pay level par with Buzz at the very least. I think VCU is overpaying but that’s a pretty good number to aim at. My only question rises from something I used to know a lot more about and that’s Title IX in relation to pay scales. Crazy I know but there were issusss in the past about how much LU could pay one or the other. I’m not sure if there have been any changes or interpretations of that but RMK deserves every dime and a lifetime contract
I take it the comment on deserving to be paid on a par with Buzz was sarcasm? He makes 2.6 mil.
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By Purple Haize
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#575348
oldflame wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
A Sea of Red wrote:An Investment Worth Making

http://www.aseaofred.com/an-investment-worth-making/
Good article. Cooley at Providence must have gotten a bump. We saw Providence a couple times at the NCAA tournament and that guy was great. We were shocked he was “only” making $400k. But back to RMK, he deserves to be on pay level par with Buzz at the very least. I think VCU is overpaying but that’s a pretty good number to aim at. My only question rises from something I used to know a lot more about and that’s Title IX in relation to pay scales. Crazy I know but there were issusss in the past about how much LU could pay one or the other. I’m not sure if there have been any changes or interpretations of that but RMK deserves every dime and a lifetime contract
I take it the comment on deserving to be paid on a par with Buzz was sarcasm? He makes 2.6 mil.
Nope. I don’t know how much Buzz makes but RMK is more valuable to LU than Buzz is to VT
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#575350
Probably, although both have coached their teams to the best records in their program's history. I'm all for Ritchie getting a FAT raise (much more than Carone suggested) but it's still the ASUN. Even if we can afford it, you can't pay him ACC money after one great year. I can see a nice round $1,000,000 with some incentives that would put him in the VCU ballpark.
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By Purple Haize
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#575352
oldflame wrote:Probably, although both have coached their teams to the best records in their program's history. I'm all for Ritchie getting a FAT raise (much more than Carone suggested) but it's still the ASUN. Even if we can afford it, you can't pay him ACC money after one great year. I can see a nice round $1,000,000 with some incentives that would put him in the VCU ballpark.
He certainly should be at or above VCU. I would say at least the 3rd highest paid Men’s Hoops coach in the State. I don’t buy your “it’s still the ASUN” argument. Are we paying based on the coach or the Conference? Few if any coach at LU has checked as many boxes as RMK does in representing the University. That guy is/should be the template of what LU wants every coach in every sport to be. You have to pay a premium when you find someone like that at LU IMO. Although I do agree, $2 million might be a bit of a stretch at this point
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#575354
Anyone know who Ritchie's agent is?

BTW, with the win over Mississippi St., as one of only a couple of guys on this board who have been around for all 8 "eras" of Liberty men's basketball, I am ready to make the call. As much as I love and respect Jeff Meyer, Ritchie McKay has earned the title of greatest men's basketball coach ever. :clapping :bowdown
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By LUOrange
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#575356
I agree with all/most of you on Coach McKay. We need to ensure that he remains our Coach for a long time, preferably until he retires. I think he has the potential or probably will have Carey Green type success, but hopefully better in that we'll make some deep Tourney runs. Call me gullible, but I was sold on his necessity of remaining our coach from his the interviews he gave during the tourney. We can only hope that Hugh Freeze can represent our University in the same manner as McKay.
By Neo
Posts
#575381
Disregard standard market numbers here. Conference doesn’t matter, and neither does the program’s relative standing.

RMK’s value to LU in terms of how he represents the school, his ability to recruit “Liberty guys”, and actually win is what is important here. In these regards he’s worth far more than his current deal, he should be making at least what VCU’s coach does.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#575382
Neo wrote:Disregard standard market numbers here. Conference doesn’t matter, and neither does the program’s relative standing.

RMK’s value to LU in terms of how he represents the school, his ability to recruit “Liberty guys”, and actually win is what is important here. In these regards he’s worth far more than his current deal, he should be making at least what VCU’s coach does.
I agree with almost everything you said. Ritchie is probably the best coach on the planet for Liberty University basketball, and we should compensate him well. But if conference and the relative standing of the program don't matter then why would we set the bar at VCU level? Shouldn't we pay him Calipari/Krcyzewski $$?
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By TallyW
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#575384
You pay him based upon his ability to do the job. At Liberty, it's a very tough job that threads the needle in so many ways.
1. Be on brand personally. (character, Christ-like attitude, push back at national narrative, etc.)
2. Bring in young men who model the above.
3. Win with those players in whatever conference we're in at the moment.
4. Handle the media spotlight where so many want to see LU fail. (He was amazing with the national media.)
5. Use the platform to honor Christ and make kids want to attend Liberty.

In my opinion, we should pay the coach what he is worth to us while factoring in what he may get on the open market. He obviously loves LU and he has a chance to win here for a long time. He believes in the University. The University should build out a contract that sends him that same message.

If you think about this as marketing dollars and not as simply paying for a basketball coach, what value do you place on the last few weeks... in marketing dollars?

I'd say he easily brought us multiple millions in free advertising... with a Big South roster.

We see nothing that would indicate he cannot bring us more free advertising in the days to come, especially as we become more of a destination and open a new arena. Pay the man. An incentive-laden contract is fair. Just give him the ability to look around at the college landscape and be thankful that he is at Liberty because we are certainly thankful to have him here.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#575386
oldflame wrote:
Neo wrote:Disregard standard market numbers here. Conference doesn’t matter, and neither does the program’s relative standing.

RMK’s value to LU in terms of how he represents the school, his ability to recruit “Liberty guys”, and actually win is what is important here. In these regards he’s worth far more than his current deal, he should be making at least what VCU’s coach does.
I agree with almost everything you said. Ritchie is probably the best coach on the planet for Liberty University basketball, and we should compensate him well. But if conference and the relative standing of the program don't matter then why would we set the bar at VCU level? Shouldn't we pay him Calipari/Krcyzewski $$?
Now you’re being silly. It’s the opposite end of the “it’s a ministry so we pay less” argument. If RMK has the longevity and National and Global success as Coach K id expect him to be paid comparably
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By flameshaw
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#575388
oldflame wrote:Anyone know who Ritchie's agent is?

BTW, with the win over Mississippi St., as one of only a couple of guys on this board who have been around for all 8 "eras" of Liberty men's basketball, I am ready to make the call. As much as I love and respect Jeff Meyer, Ritchie McKay has earned the title of greatest men's basketball coach ever. :clapping :bowdown
Undeniable.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#575399
Purple Haize wrote:
oldflame wrote:
Neo wrote:Disregard standard market numbers here. Conference doesn’t matter, and neither does the program’s relative standing.

RMK’s value to LU in terms of how he represents the school, his ability to recruit “Liberty guys”, and actually win is what is important here. In these regards he’s worth far more than his current deal, he should be making at least what VCU’s coach does.
I agree with almost everything you said. Ritchie is probably the best coach on the planet for Liberty University basketball, and we should compensate him well. But if conference and the relative standing of the program don't matter then why would we set the bar at VCU level? Shouldn't we pay him Calipari/Krcyzewski $$?
Now you’re being silly. It’s the opposite end of the “it’s a ministry so we pay less” argument. If RMK has the longevity and National and Global success as Coach K id expect him to be paid comparably
Of course I was being silly. Just trying to make the point that in fact you do have to take the relative standing of the program and the conference where we play into account in deciding how much to pay your coach. I hope and pray the day will come when we can actually justify paying him that kind of money.

The more I think about it, I'm not a fan of an incentive laden contract for someone like Ritchie, and I actually doubt he would want it. We have gotten to where we are from where we were in such a short time by placing the focus on process, not results. Getting better every day. I think it would be making a mistake to basically undermine that by incentivizing results. Let's just pay the man well.
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By Jonathan Carone
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#575403
I wasn't saying you cheap out and let him make up for it on the incentives. I would think a $750k base salary that increased by $25k-$50k each year for the life of the extension is an absolutely fair salary based on where we are as a program. That would have him at $1 million by the end of the extension. Then, on top of that, if we do have success, he's rewarded with more incentives.
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By Purple Haize
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#575404
Jonathan Carone wrote:I wasn't saying you cheap out and let him make up for it on the incentives. I would think a $750k base salary that increased by $25k-$50k each year for the life of the extension is an absolutely fair salary based on where we are as a program. That would have him at $1 million by the end of the extension. Then, on top of that, if we do have success, he's rewarded with more incentives.
At this point I think (if Title IX let’s you) you start at $1m
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#575408
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:I wasn't saying you cheap out and let him make up for it on the incentives. I would think a $750k base salary that increased by $25k-$50k each year for the life of the extension is an absolutely fair salary based on where we are as a program. That would have him at $1 million by the end of the extension. Then, on top of that, if we do have success, he's rewarded with more incentives.
At this point I think (if Title IX let’s you) you start at $1m
:nod

And if we need to give Carey a raise to make $1mil for Ritchie fly with Title IX, I say do it.
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By Liberty22
Registration Days Posts
#575416
Purple Haize wrote:
At this point I think (if Title IX let’s you) you start at $1m
Dare I admit that I’ve agreed with everything you’ve said in this thread, including this. Let’s show our commitment to him.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#575422
Liberty22 wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
At this point I think (if Title IX let’s you) you start at $1m
Dare I admit that I’ve agreed with everything you’ve said in this thread, including this. Let’s show our commitment to him.
I’m trusting you’ve scheduled an appointment with your medical provider :D
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#575425
oldflame wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:I wasn't saying you cheap out and let him make up for it on the incentives. I would think a $750k base salary that increased by $25k-$50k each year for the life of the extension is an absolutely fair salary based on where we are as a program. That would have him at $1 million by the end of the extension. Then, on top of that, if we do have success, he's rewarded with more incentives.
At this point I think (if Title IX let’s you) you start at $1m
:nod

And if we need to give Carey a raise to make $1mil for Ritchie fly with Title IX, I say do it.
I love RM but if we are throwing a million dollars at a coach for our women's team, how about we make an upgrade in that are? OK? Ok!
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#575431
I would agree with that, but I doubt we would need to raise the salary of the womens coach to match the mens (if at all) to comply . I just wouldn't begrudge Green a bump if that was necessary in order to pay Ritchie what he is worth.

A little quick google research seems to show that title IX equity requirements are pretty much limited to the number and amount of scholarships and the overall benefits and treatment of athletes. I suspect there is a much larger disparity between the salaries of the MBB and WBB coaches at places like Duke and Kentucky than we would have by paying Ritchie a mil.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#575434
oldflame wrote:I would agree with that, but I doubt we would need to raise the salary of the womens coach to match the mens (if at all) to comply . I just wouldn't begrudge Green a bump if that was necessary in order to pay Ritchie what he is worth.

A little quick google research seems to show that title IX equity requirements are pretty much limited to the number and amount of scholarships and the overall benefits and treatment of athletes. I suspect there is a much larger disparity between the salaries of the MBB and WBB coaches at places like Duke and Kentucky than we would have by paying Ritchie a mil.
I only brought up Title IX because it was an issue in the past. (Tennessee and UCONN also ran into this problem). As I stated in my previous post, I’m not up to date on all the rulings and interpretations of the law over the last decade or so regarding the measure. It may not be an issue at all at this point
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#575435
Purple Haize wrote:
oldflame wrote:I would agree with that, but I doubt we would need to raise the salary of the womens coach to match the mens (if at all) to comply . I just wouldn't begrudge Green a bump if that was necessary in order to pay Ritchie what he is worth.

A little quick google research seems to show that title IX equity requirements are pretty much limited to the number and amount of scholarships and the overall benefits and treatment of athletes. I suspect there is a much larger disparity between the salaries of the MBB and WBB coaches at places like Duke and Kentucky than we would have by paying Ritchie a mil.
I only brought up Title IX because it was an issue in the past. (Tennessee and UCONN also ran into this problem). As I stated in my previous post, I’m not up to date on all the rulings and interpretations of the law over the last decade or so regarding the measure. It may not be an issue at all at this point
I can see where there may have been past issues concerning those 2 schools. They are probably the only 2 WBB programs where revenues are close to being on a par with MBB. Of course that was in the heyday of the Summitt era where UTK is concerned. Pretty sure that is not the case now. Geno makes 2.4 mil.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#575439
oldflame wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
oldflame wrote:I would agree with that, but I doubt we would need to raise the salary of the womens coach to match the mens (if at all) to comply . I just wouldn't begrudge Green a bump if that was necessary in order to pay Ritchie what he is worth.

A little quick google research seems to show that title IX equity requirements are pretty much limited to the number and amount of scholarships and the overall benefits and treatment of athletes. I suspect there is a much larger disparity between the salaries of the MBB and WBB coaches at places like Duke and Kentucky than we would have by paying Ritchie a mil.
I only brought up Title IX because it was an issue in the past. (Tennessee and UCONN also ran into this problem). As I stated in my previous post, I’m not up to date on all the rulings and interpretations of the law over the last decade or so regarding the measure. It may not be an issue at all at this point
I can see where there may have been past issues concerning those 2 schools. They are probably the only 2 WBB programs where revenues are close to being on a par with MBB. Of course that was in the heyday of the Summitt era where UTK is concerned. Pretty sure that is not the case now. Geno makes 2.4 mil.
Well, since I’m participating in my morning Constitution.... :D :urinal
How do you justify paying someone who has only made 1 NCAA Tournament and has Half as many wins more than someone who has over a dozen NCAA Tournament appearances and twice as Tournament wins? Revenue generated isn’t taken into account under Title IX. (Football is always an outlier and no apples to apples comparison ).
Now excuse me while I light a match... :D
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#575443
I really don't believe the level of success of the respective coaches is a title IX issue either. It would certainly appear to me to be far less relevant than revenue. As far as what is fair is concerned, that's pretty much determined by the market. If CG were to think he is worth a million, there is nothing preventing him from trying to find a school who will pay him that much. I'm pretty sure he is happy where he is.
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