If roundball is your blood, this is the place to discuss the Flames as they move into the Ritchie McKay era for the 2nd time.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By 4everfsu
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#378633
olldflame wrote:BTW, the "guy in the cowboy hat" was LU's first basketball coach Dan Manley, who is now doing TV commentary for us with Matt Hildebrand. Dan coached Karl for one year before he stepped aside to pursue ministry opportunities because among other things he didn't think he was qualified to take the program where we wanted to go. Looking back, it seems if he was "qualified" to outrecruit some coaching heavyweights for a player like Karl, he may actually have been the man for the job. They hired Harley "Skeeter" Swift, who had played pro ball in the ABA and was a new christian. Bad move. He not only didn't fit in at LU, he was clearly not prepared to coach at the college level. He lasted a year. I can almost bet you that the conversation Doc had with Karl in the suburban played a big role in his "swift" departure.

I believe Manley became the head BB coach at Delta State if I remember correctly after he left LBC.
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By Purple Haize
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#378637
SCAR wrote:Well I am ambidextrous. !
I really want to. I really really do......
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By jcmanson
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#380691
Jesse is currently #16 all-time scoring (5 points behind #15), #1 all-time assists, and #4 all-time rebounds
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By Rooster Cogburn
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#380698
Look, I never saw Hess play, I've heard and read all the stats and stories. But Jesse is a special once in a lifetime player. I don't think I've ever seen someone play quite like him. I can't even think of anyone to compare him to. I mean the points and assists are amazing, but #4 all time in rebounds from a PG? He is #3 in the conference in Rebs right now too. I asked Matt Hildabrand last night when Jessee got his 13th if he rebounded like that (which I knew he didn't) and he said "I might have gotten 13 rebounds for my career).

So I find it hard to rank the GOAT without seeing Hess play and with knowing that Alston was the best and most dominant BBall athlete we have ever had. However, I think Jesse has to be in the conversation and he is the best all around player I've ever seen play at LU.
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By jinxy
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#381304
looks like Karl has stirred up quite a controversy after tossing Tom Guggliotta and Chris Corchianni (two former NC state players) at yesterdays game. It's a wide topic of discussion on espn and twitter and ACC circles. Apparently he broke some protocol of going straight to security rather than the proper channel to have them ejected. To me, it's not that big a deal, i think more people should be ejected for there actions at sports games. We don't see it at Liberty but if you get out and go to other games you'd be shocked at the things that are said to opposing players and officials, or thrown at them for that matter.
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By NotAJerry
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#381306
jinxy wrote:looks like Karl has stirred up quite a controversy after tossing Tom Guggliotta and Chris Corchianni (two former NC state players) at yesterdays game. It's a wide topic of discussion on espn and twitter and ACC circles. Apparently he broke some protocol of going straight to security rather than the proper channel to have them ejected. To me, it's not that big a deal, i think more people should be ejected for there actions at sports games. We don't see it at Liberty but if you get out and go to other games you'd be shocked at the things that are said to opposing players and officials, or thrown at them for that matter.
So, two guys sitting with their children, uttering no profanity, and simply pointing out how inconsistent the calls were from the worst referee in major college basketball should be tossed out more often?

This is the same Karl Hess who gave a technical to Rick Pitino this year for yelling at him when Pitino was actually yelling to one of his players named Kyle and Hess thought he was yelling Karl. He's an embarrassment to those of us who at least attempted to officiate with a modicum of respect for the sport.

Let's not forget that Hess is the oaf who missed the WVU-Syracuse incredibly obvious goaltending call a few weeks back. He's a complete embarrassment to his profession and should be fired.
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By Purple Haize
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#381309
jinxy wrote:looks like Karl has stirred up quite a controversy after tossing Tom Guggliotta and Chris Corchianni (two former NC state players) at yesterdays game. It's a wide topic of discussion on espn and twitter and ACC circles. Apparently he broke some protocol of going straight to security rather than the proper channel to have them ejected. To me, it's not that big a deal, i think more people should be ejected for there actions at sports games. We don't see it at Liberty but if you get out and go to other games you'd be shocked at the things that are said to opposing players and officials, or thrown at them for that matter.
Are you serious? Starting with one of our illustrious Deans we have more then our fair share of fans who disrespect officials. We are even sorta known for it.
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By pbow
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#381372
NotAJerry wrote:
jinxy wrote:looks like Karl has stirred up quite a controversy after tossing Tom Guggliotta and Chris Corchianni (two former NC state players) at yesterdays game. It's a wide topic of discussion on espn and twitter and ACC circles. Apparently he broke some protocol of going straight to security rather than the proper channel to have them ejected. To me, it's not that big a deal, i think more people should be ejected for there actions at sports games. We don't see it at Liberty but if you get out and go to other games you'd be shocked at the things that are said to opposing players and officials, or thrown at them for that matter.
So, two guys sitting with their children, uttering no profanity, and simply pointing out how inconsistent the calls were from the worst referee in major college basketball should be tossed out more often?

This is the same Karl Hess who gave a technical to Rick Pitino this year for yelling at him when Pitino was actually yelling to one of his players named Kyle and Hess thought he was yelling Karl. He's an embarrassment to those of us who at least attempted to officiate with a modicum of respect for the sport.

Let's not forget that Hess is the oaf who missed the WVU-Syracuse incredibly obvious goaltending call a few weeks back. He's a complete embarrassment to his profession and should be fired.
I completely agree...he's by far the worst official in the country, and that is not an easy title to have.
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By jinxy
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#381384
Let me address each of your comments

First, you don't see the type of behavior like I'm talking about at Liberty events, you need to go to a NFL game or major college football game and apparently you haven't, alcohol is usually involved, not at liberty games.

Next, how do you know he is the worst official in teh country, have you witnessed each of them, that is an idiotic blanket statement. He's clearly not the best but to say he's the worst is a reflection of a crazy person because you clearly have not evaluated every official. (for the record i grew up a UVA fan and I agree he is not a great official, but college basketball has the worst officiating of the 3 major NCAA sports across the board).

Finally, noyone said that pointing out an official who makes a bad call should be tossed. I have a good friend who works in AT at State and said taht Gugliotta was way out of line with the threats he made, he agreed that the other guy should not have been tossed, so Karl overreacted. My comments were based at the idiots who have no life other than sports and think it makes them a big man to say things sitting in teh stands to refs and players and coaches they would never say in person. Alcohol is usually a factor. Take the Maryland student section for example, tune in to a game or better yet go and hear the things they say and do. Or a local example, at VT Duke game in Blacksburg when JJ Reddick was playing for Duke. You should have heard the things that there said to JJ's parents and then referencing his mother and the officials in that game, it was grotesque and embarssing to say the least. That's the behavior I'm talking about. (so haize if we have Dean's making Larry Flint insults like he did to Doc, then i stand corrected). I've never heard that kind of stuff ever at liberty. Certainly there are some folks taht push the envelope i know, but i think there is a difference in waht I'm talking about.

Nobody is saying you can second guess an official, but there is clearly a personal line to me. Maybe you guys think it's ok to say and do whatever you want a game, i disagree
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#381388
jinxy wrote: Maybe you guys think it's ok to say and do whatever you want a game, i disagree
For starters, you don't have to use sexual or vulgar language to be an annoying fan. Nor do you have to use them to get tossed. So at Liberty fit your above statement.
We have several fans ( and I'm not talking students) who yell and insult the officials on just about every call. It really is embarrassing. No they don't cuss or swear but the vitriol with which they spew their rage is quite eye opening and know in officiating circles.
Don't get me wrong. I am all for creative heckling, but the tired and true 'Youre blind" " You suck" gets boring
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By jinxy
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#381390
I should have been more specific with the behavior I'm talking about. After reading my post again i could see how you would think I was saying everytime someone criticizes an officail he should be tossed. Not the case at all, Googs should have been tossed, at least in my opinion. My athletic training friend that works with the team said he had baggered both Hess and one of the other officials and went way overboard multiple times. It's debatable and there's not much precendent for it unless the official feels that danger is imminent. I guess this is one thing I agree with Cowherd about, he has spoken about the ever increasing filth that goes on at pro sports especially.

Haize, I'm not saying you can't do that, I really think you need to go to a UMD or VT game or NFL game, then you'll get what I'm saying...read your updated post as I'm posting
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By Purple Haize
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#381392
I'm a WVU alum. I've seen and heard plenty.
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By NotAJerry
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#381394
I've been to plenty of UMD games, their fans are the worst I've encountered outside of Philly sports fans. Just awful people.

As far as the rest of the nonsense, if what Googs and Corch were doing was so bad, why does the ref at the scorers table look as shocked/confused as everyone else when Herr Hess decides to toss out two legends who are at the game with their kids? If Herr Hess isn't the worst official in the country, then why can anyone quickly locate several instances of UNC/Duke/NCSU fans agreeing with each other about just how bad he is when they can't agree on anything? If Herr Hess isn't the worst official in the country then why is this the 3rd significant foul up of his in the last several weeks (Pitino ejection for yelling someone else's name, the WVU/Syracuse missed call that Helen Keller could have gotten right while facing the other way/this completely unjustified double ejection in which he trampled protocol)?

Hess may have been a heck of a player at well below the NCAA level, but he's the embodiment of everything that is wrong with officiating these days with the exaggerated calls to draw attention to himself, the lack of willingness to acknowledge a mistake (the Pitino incident being exhibit A), and the inability to do the most basic aspect of refereeing by blocking out the crowd and just doing your job as best you can. He's a joke of an official and shouldn't be able to find work again anytime soon.
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By jinxy
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#381398
Haize now i know what's wrong with you :D

Notajerry- I dont know what to tell you. Karl made a judgment call, most people would probably disagree with it. if he said what my bud said he said and the amount of times and the vialness they yes i think he should have been tossed. Either way, I agree he's not a great official, i don't think he's the worst but def. not elite.
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By pbow
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#381405
I would just like to say...I'm sure I have not seen every single ref, but in my short amount of time on earth I have been to an obnoxious amount of college basketball games all over the country. I know people always dog on guys like Burr, Higgins, Hightower, and Valentine, but they don't touch guys like Hess or Cahill in just being plain horrible at there job.
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By R i
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#381428
Karl should have gone to game administrators and had them removed. Instead he wanted to be on a power trip and react with emotion and toss them.
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By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#381439
hah i agree postman, i just meant to get it out there. Didn't mean to make any controversy. Pbow, my point was just college basketball has the worst officiating across the board. Sure, Hess has had a couple of high profile blowups lately but to me there are so many bad ones I can't differentiate.
By Bigsouthking
Registration Days Posts
#381450
I lost respect for Hess after this 'incident' --

He's making 1500.00 at least to ref the game plus expenses and he cannot take some 'heckling' --

Plus Corch and Googs were my favorites growing up! :lol:
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By Purple Haize
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#381477
ballcoach15 wrote:Officials should never "hear" comments from the stands. When they start doing that, they have a problem.
So if a fan makes racist, sexist, or vulgar comments, or threaten physical violence an official should just not 'hear' it? If a fan is making as %#€ out of themselves and distracting from the game should just be 'ignored'?
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By NotAJerry
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#381493
Purple Haize wrote:
ballcoach15 wrote:Officials should never "hear" comments from the stands. When they start doing that, they have a problem.
So if a fan makes racist, sexist, or vulgar comments, or threaten physical violence an official should just not 'hear' it? If a fan is making as %#€ out of themselves and distracting from the game should just be 'ignored'?
None of that happened here. Racist comments and threats should be dealt with discreetly unless the threat is accompanied by any kind of movement that suggests it may be happening then. I've reffed in some pretty rough places, including real Hawaii where they hate white people and some DC public school games with historic rivals involved, and I've never come close to tossing a fan. In the officiating world, you've got to come in expecting the worst from people and have the disposition to let it roll off you without effect as much as possible. That's just part of doing the job the right way.

Herr Hess is a grade a jerk and his reputation as an incompetent twit is well earned. He was absolutely wrong in this instance, he has a history of a short fuse and a grandstanding attitude, and he's made some of the worst calls/non-calls I've seen recently. He's just a bad ref.
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By Purple Haize
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#381496
Glad you ignore abhorrent behavior! I've tossed a couple of fans in my day. Some were for racial slurs some were for profanity, you know stuff the rule book and governing bodies want you to enforce. I guess you would just ignore those statements and do it your own way. Sorta like you accuse Dr Hess of doing. Hmmmmm
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By R i
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#381497
Haize. How did you eject them. Did you look at them and give them the finger wave?

Or did you go to the game administrator and say, "can you have that dude removed for saying this".

Big difference if you ask me, Which you didnt. The guy that taught me how to officiate would have Marched up in the stands and carried the dude out himself.
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