If roundball is your blood, this is the place to discuss the Flames as they move into the Ritchie McKay era for the 2nd time.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By olldflame
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#545908
flameshaw wrote:Seen them all play. In my opinion, Aluma was unquestionably the best. Unfortunately, he never really reached his full potential and it can be argued that he actually played worse every year. He was one of the first BIG basketball talents at LU and the coaches didn't really push him. It was almost like they were afraid to get after him, or were in awe of his talent. They never really rode his butt like the rest of the players. He was a favorite of the fans, most of the teachers, etc. His personality got him by on a lot of things that wouldn't work for most people. He took advantage of that and was never fully challenged.
In spite of all that, he was a great talent. Juice was good, but he did not have the instincts that Peter had. Peter was easily the best shot blocker I have ever seen in the BSC. He also had better offensive skills than Juice.

All IMVVVHO.
Like you I have seen all of these guys play. Regarding Aluma, IMHO he improved a ton between his first game as a FR and his SO year, and pretty much cruised from there. Maybe the coaches could have pushed him harder, but it was certainly not their fault that the summer prior to his Senior year, instead of staying in Lynchburg, working out with teammates and trying to get in the best shape of his life and improve his skills to make a run at the pros, he chose to go home to Nigeria, not touch a basketball for over 3 months and balloon up to 260 lbs (at least) on mom"s home cooking. He tried out for a couple of NBA teams, and when he didn't make it, he made little to no effort to hook up with pro teams overseas, where he could have made a decent living playing ball like Juice did. He had his green card and he was happy.

Personally, I think Alston was the best to ever put on a Liberty uniform. He played during our transition to D1 and some of his points came against lesser opponents, but we also had a few games against ACC teams during his career, and he always stepped up in those games and showed he could score against anyone. Not a great shooter, but nobody could stay in front of him, and when he got to the rim at 6'3", he would finish with dunks at every opportunity. So much fun to watch.
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By R i
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#545915
Purple Haize wrote:Ed. Gomes. Leads the program record books in Turn Overs. 353.
FIFY
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By Cider Jim
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#545916
I've watched 33 years of LU basketball, plus a few games in the 1980 NCCAA championship in Chattanooga when I was in college there. Here are my top players:

1. Bailey Alston
2. Julius Nwosu
3. Matt Hildebrand
4. Jesse Sanders
5. Peter Aluma
6. Larry Blair
7. Alex McLean

Since Karl Hess played at the NCCAA level (probably a step below NAIA), I can't see him making the top 10.

The best single-game performance I witnessed was when Ace dropped 40 points at VMI years ago.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#545932
Sly Fox wrote:I love these discussions based on both stats and personal opinion, but any list with Bailey ranked 4th is suspect in my mildly humble opinion. Yes, we only had him for three seasons but those three years nearly eclipse the numbers of Blair & Hess in four. He was part of the transition to DI and anyone who has followed the program long enough to see him play will always start with him #1 overall.

I also don't see the big disparity between between Juice & Aluma. I get the first to the Dance and the larger body of work but the margins between them are minute. LJ should absolutely be Top Ten ... he certainly glossed himself as GOAT on here once upon a time. Jesse should be higher up the list as well.

Here's my crack at the list:

  • 1. Bailey Alston
    2. Larry Blair
    3. Karl Hess
    4. Jesse Sanders
    5. Anthony Smith
    6. Peter Aluma
    7. Juice Nwosu
    8. Larry Jackson
    9. Ed Vickers
    10. Eric Gordon Sr.


Other names not listed originally to throw out there for honorable mention would be Mark Chafin and Chris Caldwell. Frankly I gave strong consideration for Chafin (4th All-Time Leading Scorer with 17.5 Career Average) in Top Ten. But I remember Gordon wowing me on my campus visit back int he Early '80s.

I also think it would be fun to create a Top 10 Texans list:

  • 1. Jesse Sanders
    2. Anthony Smith
    3. Juice Nwosu (Texan since graduation)
    4. Larry Jackson
    5. Chris Caldwell
    6. John Caleb Sanders
    7. Ryan Kemrite
    8. Nathan Day
    9. Marcus White
    10. Rell Porter


Honorable Mention: Gabe Caldwell, Nic Wright, Rob Attaway, Phil Ward, Harry Williams and Rev. Evan Risher
Nathan Day ahead of Marcus White? I don't think so. I would say the same for Cabe, but he did have a solid 4 year career and unfortunately Marcus' aversion to the classroom resulted in his only having 2.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#545933
For those who never got to see Bailey Alston, imagine a long-armed 6'3" version of Larry Blair with an extra 6-8 inches of vertical.
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By Cider Jim
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#545942
Did Larry Blair have a crazy low shooting percentage? And did he score so many points because put up more shots than anyone else? During the RD years, wasn't the team the Larry Blair show?
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#545944
Cider Jim wrote:Did Larry Blair have a crazy low shooting percentage? And did he score so many points because put up more shots than anyone else? During the RD years, wasn't the team the Larry Blair show?
Larry was a "volume shooter". In fairness, as a JR when he put up his biggest numbers, he really was pretty much all we had. Kemrite broke his record for 3 pointers made on 140 fewer attempts.
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By WinthropEagleFan
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#545947
olldflame wrote:
Cider Jim wrote:Did Larry Blair have a crazy low shooting percentage? And did he score so many points because put up more shots than anyone else? During the RD years, wasn't the team the Larry Blair show?
Larry was a "volume shooter". In fairness, as a JR when he put up his biggest numbers, he really was pretty much all we had. Kemrite broke his record for 3 pointers made on 140 fewer attempts.
That junior year, Larry Blair had one of the best performances I'd ever 'seen' (can't remember if there was live video streaming then..but if not, I listened to it)...LU was having a rough year (only had 3 D1 wins heading into the final week of the season) and hosted one of the best Winthrop teams ever in late February, and won behind a 37 point effort by Blair. I think he scored 26 or 28 points in the 2nd half...
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#545948
Here's a comparison I just thought of, and I think it's legit. Put Hess out there now with the 3 point basket against D1 competition and IMHO he could have been at least as good as Andrew Rowsey. (I still think Alston was better.)
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By flameshaw
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#545949
Good conversation. In my opinion, Peter Aluma would be on the all-time first team All BSC team. It could be argued that he was the best, but that would probably go to the forward from CCU that was the BSC player of the year, for 4 years in a row. Can't remember his name, but I saw him play several times. I thought he was extremely over-rated, but maybe he just made things look so easy. He was a very silky-smooth player.
For me, the best game anyone has ever had for LU, was Peter, in his freshman year in the Championship Game against Campbell. I believe he missed only one shot on offense and completely dominated the defensive side of the court.
He and Hildebrand put the team on their backs and carried us to our first NCAA appearance. Matt made some yuuuuuuge free throws down the stretch. One of the best LU athletic events I have ever attended.
Interesting to see how the big moments and players rank in minds of different people, from different eras.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#545950
olldflame wrote:Here's a comparison I just thought of, and I think it's legit. Put Hess out there now with the 3 point basket against D1 competition and IMHO he could have been at least as good as Andrew Rowsey. (I still think Alston was better.)
Hess played against some very sketchy competition. I think it is hard to rank him against today's players.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#545952
flameshaw wrote:Good conversation. In my opinion, Peter Aluma would be on the all-time first team All BSC team. It could be argued that he was the best, but that would probably go to the forward from CCU that was the BSC player of the year, for 4 years in a row. Can't remember his name, but I saw him play several times. I thought he was extremely over-rated, but maybe he just made things look so easy. He was a very silky-smooth player.
For me, the best game anyone has ever had for LU, was Peter, in his freshman year in the Championship Game against Campbell. I believe he missed only one shot on offense and completely dominated the defensive side of the court.
He and Hildebrand put the team on their backs and carried us to our first NCAA appearance. Matt made some yuuuuuuge free throws down the stretch. One of the best LU athletic events I have ever attended.
Interesting to see how the big moments and players rank in minds of different people, from different eras.
I was at that game as well, and it was certainly at or near the top as a highlight of my Liberty fandom. The Coastal player you referred to was Tony Dunkin, and he was as you described and WAY overrated. He should not have won POY 2 of those 4 years.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#545953
flameshaw wrote:
olldflame wrote:Here's a comparison I just thought of, and I think it's legit. Put Hess out there now with the 3 point basket against D1 competition and IMHO he could have been at least as good as Andrew Rowsey. (I still think Alston was better.)
Hess played against some very sketchy competition. I think it is hard to rank him against today's players.
Yes, most of his college games were against a lower level of competition but,..........

1). If he had played with the 3 point rule he probably would have scored over 30 a game his last 2
years.
2) I can't remember all the specifics, but it seems to me that when he did go up against D1
competition, he showed he could compete. I believe he had over 20 against VT.
3) He scored 36 points in the Dapper Dan all star game in PA following his SR year of HS against
mostly future D1 competition.
4). If he had played today, he would have had all the advantages our current players have, including
the 3 point shot, the best training facilities and Henry Barrera.

I really think his physical abilities and skill set are very similar to Rowsey's if you give him those modern advantages.
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By Sly Fox
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#545979
It is hard for the younger crowd to fathom life without the 3-point line. Shooters are frankly the only ones you can compare well between eras.
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By FlamesHighontheTide
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#545983
Can yall imagine how many points Pistol Pete Maravich would have averaged in college? He averaged 42 or 44 points for all 3 years at LSU without a three point line. Thats what makes what he did even more incredible.

Here is a question I thought of while watching our boys get W in asheville.

IF, Scottie James continues to do for the next 2 years what he has done this year then does that solidify him in the top 5? If not put him as the GOAT!
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#545985
thepostman wrote:If he continues to improve he would at uthe very least be top 10. I'm very impressed with his improvement.
Agree he needs to continue improving to be top 10, but everything he has shown so far would indicate that is going to happen. His work ethic is off the charts.

Unfortunately, BSC voters tend to go strictly by stats and don't really look at things like who finishes strong. Scottie's numbers suffered during the period he was weakened by the flu, so even if he continues to dominate in the remaining 3 games, I suspect he will be second team this year.
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By jcmanson
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#545986
Great question about Scottie. At his current averages, and if he plays 30 games each of the next two years, he would finish 18th on the all time scoring list and 4th on the all time rebounding list. It would certainly put him in the discussion, especially doing this over 3 years. If his pace increases and/or the team wins a championship or more, then he certainly belongs in the discussion.

Lovell Cabbil is another guy we shouldn't rule out. He's currently on pace to finish around the 7th or 8th spot on the all time scoring list. He could also end up in the top 10 on the rebounding list. With a really good year next season, he could also threaten Kemrite's career 3 point field goal number.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#545989
FlamesHighontheTide wrote:Can yall imagine how many points Pistol Pete Maravich would have averaged in college? He averaged 42 or 44 points for all 3 years at LSU without a three point line. Thats what makes what he did even more incredible.

Here is a question I thought of while watching our boys get W in asheville.

IF, Scottie James continues to do for the next 2 years what he has done this year then does that solidify him in the top 5? If not put him as the GOAT!
Not even close, IMVHO. He is going to have to get a LOT better, which is possible, but not likely.
Another way of looking at this question, is how did a certain athlete player do against the competition at the time? ie. did he/she dominate a 4 year period or an era? That is the standard they try to use when picking HOF players for baseball. Scottie is good, but I don't see him making 1st team BSC this year. As much as I like the guy, I don't see him being that kind of player. I am thinking a blue collar, hard working, lunch pail carrying kind of guy ie. Kurt Rambis.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#545990
I remember catching some of the Liberty-UNC game after school when I was 11. Definite think now looking back that he would be #1 or 2 on most lists all time


If I had a top 5 from my "era":

5. Alex McLean
4. Gabe Martin
3. Anthony Smith
2. Larry Blair
1. Jesse Sanders

I still have memories of the VMI-LU game at the Vines Center where I think they combined for 120 points in the first half. Alex was an absolute beast that night
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#545991
Scottie's numbers over the next couple of years are likely to be affected by factors out of his control. Don't be surprised if his rebounds are down simply because when Brendon Newton is in the game he will be grabbing a lot of them before they come down to the level where guys 6'7" play.
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