[SuperJon]

We have all said our things about Kyle over the past three years. I have always said that I don't mind criticism as long as you are there to give credit when someone deserves it. Tonight, Kyle Ohman deserves credit.

Kyle played 31 minutes tonight with a broken wrist. His shooting percentage was way down because of it, but eight rebounds, two steals, and two assists in 31 minutes. Not to mention he was a leader on the court which is something we needed more than anything, especially with Jesse getting in foul trouble.

So Kyle, good job. You went out with a great attitude, worked off, and did what you could to make your team better. That's what a senior captain does.

[jcmanson]

In addition to what you said, he has been playing amazing since the VMI game. It's been nice to see him turn the corner in his role this year.

[LUnpretty11]

+1

[kingaling42]

As an opposing fan- I agree with everything written thus far.. KO is obviously a tough kid playing with this type of injury, but more than that he tried to do everything he could to help the Flames win last night.. That's what leaders do!

Real tough & gutty way to do things- much respect from this Big South basketball fan...

[Cider Jim]

Waiting for HMO to show KO some love...

[jcmanson]

Waiting for HMO to show KO some love...

He has off the board.

[ToTheLeft]

As much as love his effort... we can't have broken players out there if we want to win games. We struggle holding the ball as it is, we need guys out there that are physically capable of controlling the ball. Broken Kyle is not the answer for the team. Put him under the knife if you have to, or rest him, and let it heal. Give JA, Minaya, and Weaver his minutes. Get him back for the stretch run.

[jcmanson]

As much as love his effort... we can't have broken players out there if we want to win games. We struggle holding the ball as it is, we need guys out there that are physically capable of controlling the ball. Broken Kyle is not the answer for the team. Put him under the knife if you have to, or rest him, and let it heal. Give JA, Minaya, and Weaver his minutes. Get him back for the stretch run.

Kyle had 3 TO's in 31 minutes.

Minaya had 1 TO in 2 minutes.

A broken Kyle is better than Minaya.

As for Weaver and JA, I'm fine giving them Kyle's minutes. When I first heard Kyle could miss the rest of the season I actually wasn't very dissapointed. I mean we're not going to win the 'ship this year, Kyle is our only Senior, so why not let the other freshman and sophs have his minutes.

[ToTheLeft]

As much as love his effort... we can't have broken players out there if we want to win games. We struggle holding the ball as it is, we need guys out there that are physically capable of controlling the ball. Broken Kyle is not the answer for the team. Put him under the knife if you have to, or rest him, and let it heal. Give JA, Minaya, and Weaver his minutes. Get him back for the stretch run.

Kyle had 3 TO's in 31 minutes.

Minaya had 1 TO in 2 minutes.

A broken Kyle is better than Minaya.

As for Weaver and JA, I'm fine giving them Kyle's minutes. When I first heard Kyle could miss the rest of the season I actually wasn't very dissapointed. I mean we're not going to win the 'ship this year, Kyle is our only Senior, so why not let the other freshman and sophs have his minutes.

That's a terrible statistic, too small of a sample size for David. And Kyle was responsible for at least two more turnovers that didn't show up in the boxscore. David can play D, and he can get to the rim. He's nothing great, but he's better than broken Kyle.

[jcmanson]

He's been terrible all season. He averages more than a TO per game and only plays 13 minutes a game (an average which is greatly diminishing). He's shooting 33% from the field and 15% from 3. 3 points and 1 board a game. 5 Assists/ 21 TOs on the season.

I'll take broken Kyle's 20% shooting, 9 points, 8 boards, 2 assists/ 3 TOs over that.

[LUnpretty11]

Also take into consideration how many TO's KO was getting before the broken wrist. 3 in 1 game is nothing. Especially with a broken wrist. If he gave away 7-10 TO's or so, obviously sit him. The main argument will come in the points, rebound categories, and physical play. He is pretty good and muscling in with the bigs and getting some boards. If the wrist hinders him from that.... then he is definitely a big time

[ToTheLeft]

Did you guys watch Kyle last night? I was really coming around on Kyle, but he's not helping this team with a broken wrist. He's NOT THE SAME PLAYER.

Those numbers you gave are of healthy Kyle, and once again, David's sample size is small. And what kind of assist to turnover ratio is a guy like him supposed to get? I watch him on the floor and see someone I'd rather see than Kyle. Like I said, there were plays that Kyle couldn't make thanks to his wrist that hurt us. I'd rather have an able bodied player out there. If you want to win, you put your best players on the floor, and broken Kyle is not one of our best players. His shot was off, he couldn't do his cross over dribble, he couldn't grab a rebound in traffic, he alligator armed a great pass by Jesse for an easy bucket, and his FT shooting is off (he hurt it in the last game, and his shooting has gone down since). Kyle was turning into the leader and scorer we needed him to be, and I was the first to defend him among friends when talking about the team. But broken Kyle is NOT what we need to win.

It's not just numbers (but if you look at numbers, broken Kyle's numbers are very, very bad.). It's about watching the players and seeing how they play on the floor, and I'd rather have Bill, JA, and David Minaya than Broken Kyle right now.

[ToTheLeft]

Also take into consideration how many TO's KO was getting before the broken wrist. 3 in 1 game is nothing. Especially with a broken wrist. If he gave away 7-10 TO's or so, obviously sit him. The main argument will come in the points, rebound categories, and physical play. He is pretty good and muscling in with the bigs and getting some boards. If the wrist hinders him from that.... then he is definitely a big time

Did you see him have to slap a ball to Antwan because he simply couldn't grab it? He isn't able to do the things that Healthy Kyle can do.

[jcmanson]

Those numbers you gave are of healthy Kyle,

No they're not, they're from last night.

and once again, David's sample size is small.

there's a reason why

It's not just numbers (but if you look at numbers, broken Kyle's numbers are very, very bad.)

Still better than Minaya.

I understand what you're saying, but you're arguing the wrong person(s). JA is going to get 20+ minutes regardless of Kyle's PT. Minaya doesn't deserve to be on the court. He had his chance; he lost it. And Weaver doesn't deserve all 30 minutes of Kyle's PT. If you were arguing Johnny then I might agree with you.

[ToTheLeft]

I'll concede Minaya since apparently I am the only one who sees anything in him, and don't wanna bang my head against that wall.

I'll take Carter, Johnny, and Spencer over giving Broken Kyle 30 minutes. Either sit Kyle and get him 100% by tourney time, or play him less and give us a better chance.

There is plenty of offense with Antwan, Pat, JA, Evan, and sometimes Jesse, not to mention the occasional contributions from Carter and the possibility of Bill and Johnny of getting to the basket. We don't NEED Kyle Ohman to "score" especially when he wasn't scoring. If he gets better and gets used to the wrist, that's one thing. But if we saw Kyle Ohman the way Kyle Ohman will be with a broken wrist, I'd rather not see him get 30 minutes. But he isn't the same player, and it hurts the team to have to rely on him for offense.

[jcmanson]

I'll take Carter, Johnny, and Spencer over giving Broken Kyle 30 minutes. Either sit Kyle and get him 100% by tourney time, or play him less and give us a better chance.

If you meant Weaver instead of Spencer, then I'll agree with you

[ToTheLeft]

I had already said Weaver. I think we agree he's capable of playing 5-10 minutes to make up for KO's absence.

And I think Spencer can play some guard and we go small for 5 minutes a game to keep making up for Kyle's minutes. Especially if he's out there with Evan and JA, since they give us the offense that Spencer lacks.

[SuperJon]

I told TTL this earlier and I think there's a decent chance something like this happens:

Last night, no one had any time to practice and learn a new role or anything like that. Also, no one knew how Kyle was going to do. In warmups, he was shooting the ball very well. The downside of only have one day between games is that you don't get the practice time between those games. Kyle was the best option for last night. He had his limitations, but overall he was our best option and stepped up and sucked it up and played which is what the team needed him to do.

Now, with three days of practice to get ready for this week, the coaches have a chance to play around with different lineups. They are able to see who works well in what spots without Kyle. Also, Kyle gets three days to adjust his game to playing with a fractured wrist.

The other thing that forced Kyle into playing more minutes last night was Evan getting in foul trouble so early (one of which was a crap call). We were left with needing to get Kyle in the game. Now, after seeing the way others stepped up (Jeremy, Antwan, and Pat), I think we may be able to wait if that happens again. Going into that game though, no one knew Jeremy would play the way he did. No one knew Antwan would play the way he did. And no one knew Pat would break out of his slump in such a fashion that he did. Now we know.

[jcmanson]

Well, I'll agree with you in benching Kyle in favor of Bill, Johnny, and others. But not for the lack of Broken Kyle's effectiveness and instead to build for the next 2 years.

[olldflame]

I think it's too early to pass judgement on whether Kyle can play effectively with this injury. It's obviously a big adjustment to make for him, but he was able to get 8 boards last night and play tough defense in his first attempt at it. Hopefully as it heals and he adjusts to it, he will be more effective on the offensive end.

Minaya has really looked lost out there. I agree that he was given plenty of opportunity early on and just didn't produce. He didn't have a good game yesterday, but IMHO a guy who HAS produced when given the opportunity has been Perez. If Kyle cannot get it done, right now I think Perez and Weaver should get the minutes, along with a few extra minutes for Jeremy (but he would be playing 20+ regardless). We are a better defensive team with Weaver in the game.

[bigsmooth]

agree with olld on it being too early to pass judgement on KO. this is an excellent time for minaya to step up and start contributing and maybe perez will get more consistency in his game. i would love to see johnny step up and run the point and let evan look to shoot more. i trust the coaching staff to make the adjustments if KO can't go.

[bigsmooth]

olld what do you see in perez?? he is incredibly inconsistent and sometimes looks lost like minaya. you have been a proponent of his all year, so just trying to understand the love.

[prototype]

Now he has a legitimate reason for shooting so poorly at times...

Hope he gets better, but even if he didn't get hurt - thought this would be a great year to play a lot of the young guys and get them some good trial by fire. Not huge Perez or Minaya fans either. The best thing I have seen lately is Carter not wearing a mohawk anymore - the chicken man copying was getting unbearable. I've seen good things from him this year - he's not going to get many minutes in Layer's system unless he continues to bulk up though...

[Hold My Own]

KO's showing heart right now. When I first got the news about the wrist the word was he was going to sit out the rest of the year to not injure it more...that I didnt understand considering the circumstances. But he chose against that initial idea.

I would just have a short leash on him though and make sure it's not causing more detriment to the team rather then help.

[olldflame]

olld what do you see in perez?? he is incredibly inconsistent and sometimes looks lost like minaya. you have been a proponent of his all year, so just trying to understand the love.

Quite frankly, I have a hard time understanding the hate.

Look at the numbers:

http://www.libertyflames.com/wwwadmin/g ... BC1019.HTM

Sure, the game is more than numbers, but those numbers are real, and they show what a player has actually done, not a totally subjective opinion from someone watching as a fan. Minaya has been terrible. It shows in the numbers and on the floor. Perez is shooting 55% from the field and almost as well from 3. His effeciency and production per minute is second only to Burrus. Not so great from the line and too many turnovers, but he is a Freshman. Layer has also praised his defense more than once. He's a legit 6'4" player who can handle, shoot and take it to the hole. He may not be the rebounder and inside defender Kyle is, but that's where Weaver would come in. Otherwise Perez probably comes closest to matching Kyle's skill set of anyone we have to replace him.

The only other option is Stephene, and all I can say about him is, he shows flashes of talent, but he can't play the 3 and there are clearly reasons he plays 2 minutes a game.