A Sea Of Red

This topic is sure to spark some discussion, but after Jesse fouled out last night, I began wondering what are team would be like without him. Right now, Seth, Smitty, and even Brolin are getting most of the publicity, but I wonder if Jesse is really the MVP of our team right now. Without him, would our shooters still be getting the good looks they have enjoyed so far this season?

Cider is wise beyond his years

Haha the great debate begins...it's hard for me to give the MVP to someone like Jesse...Jesse is prob my favorite player but it's hard to give it to him while Seth drops 30 a night...points are a lot harder to come across then assists and I think Jonny could come in and pick up where Jesse leaves off...same argument can be made for Ant though, sure he doesnt score as much as Seth but without his rebounds and defending the 5 on every other team then I'm not sure where we'd be

Hold My Own wrote:Haha the great debate begins...it's hard for me to give the MVP to someone like Jesse...Jesse is prob my favorite player but it's hard to give it to him while Seth drops 30 a night...assists are a lot harder to come across then points and I think Jonny could come in and pick up where Jesse leaves off...same argument can be made for Ant though, sure he doesnt score as much as Seth but without his rebounds and defending the 5 on every other team then I'm not sure where we'd be

FIFY

Most valuable? We lose Seth and we're in deep trouble.

However, I'd probably give Sanders the most under-appreciated. He's clearly the key to a lot of what we want to do. When Seth started playing on the ball, he didn't see many looks. I was surprised to not see Stephene in at that point. Clearly, we need Jesse on the floor at crucial moments.

flamesbball84 wrote:

Hold My Own wrote:Haha the great debate begins...it's hard for me to give the MVP to someone like Jesse...Jesse is prob my favorite player but it's hard to give it to him while Seth drops 30 a night...assists are a lot harder to come across then points and I think Jonny could come in and pick up where Jesse leaves off...same argument can be made for Ant though, sure he doesnt score as much as Seth but without his rebounds and defending the 5 on every other team then I'm not sure where we'd be

FIFY

You give me a name that will make up the loss of 30 points last night and I'll actually be able to provide you a name of someone who could produce 4 assists



I dont like arguing about this b/c it makes it seem like I dont like or appreciate Jesse...he's still my favorite player but I cant go with MVP at this point

i never said seth was or wasn't mvp or that jesse was or wasnt mvp. i just said assists are harder to get than points, which is the truth. it's a lot easier to find people who score a lot than it is to find someone who can create for others.

flamesbball84 wrote:i never said seth was or wasn't mvp or that jesse was or wasnt mvp. i just said assists are harder to get than points, which is the truth. it's a lot easier to find people who score a lot than it is to find someone who can create for others.

Maybe in general but it would be hard to find those 30 points with this team

devil's advocate:

we had a guy in Philly, went by "AI", was an MVP and All-star multiple times

dude could drop 50 if he wanted to, but eventually got traded b/c we couldn't win consistently

BUT: I agree that Seth is the man right now, and not entirely due to his scoring ability

Didn't that dude lead them to an NBA finals?

PAmedic wrote: dude could drop 50 if he wanted to, but eventually got traded b/c we couldn't win consistently

ONE time to the finals [not-equals-thingy] consistency

we did make the playoffs 5 or 6 times, but we Philly fans are notoriously ungrateful, so I choose to over look that.

the point is- individual scoring ability ON ITS OWN does not necessarily make one an all-around success

SCAR should weigh in here. Maybe he's contractually forbidden, though

LUconn wrote:Didn't that dude lead them to an NBA finals?

With little to no help around him...



BOOOOOO PHILLY FANS NEVER BEING HAPPY BOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOO

Hold My Own wrote:

LUconn wrote:Didn't that dude lead them to an NBA finals?

With little to no help around him...



BOOOOOO PHILLY FANS NEVER BEING HAPPY BOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOO

yup, correct

I edited my previous post to include that point as you posted this

and look what AI has done to the pistons now! a far cry from last year's success with chauncey billups running the show!

Cider Jim wrote:This topic is sure to spark some discussion, but after Jesse fouled out last night, I began wondering what are team would be like without him. Right now, Seth, Smitty, and even Brolin are getting most of the publicity, but I wonder if Jesse is really the MVP of our team right now. Without him, would our shooters still be getting the good looks they have enjoyed so far this season?

Gaurds are by the nature of their positions, leaders. Everything starts with them. This especially holds true for the point gaurd position. You really can't win without quality leadership in your backcourt. Freshmen or not, both Seth & Jesse are exceptional leaders and both know their role understand what needs to be done in order to win.

I think a lot of you guys are putting too much on Jesse playing the point. There was a lot of the game where Jesse was in the game but Seth was playing point guard. Jesse was playing more of a 3 than anything. He was getting in and cutting/screening on the inside and creating when he could, but Seth was bringing the ball up the floor. The thing that hurt when Jesse went down was his rebounding and having another person to create. It wasn't so much having a point guard. Seth is a good point guard and can get his shot off while playing the point if he has other threats around him. Once Jesse was gone, the threat was gone. That, to me, was the biggest issue.

SuperJon wrote:I think a lot of you guys are putting too much on Jesse playing the point. There was a lot of the game where Jesse was in the game but Seth was playing point guard. Jesse was playing more of a 3 than anything. He was getting in and cutting/screening on the inside and creating when he could, but Seth was bringing the ball up the floor. The thing that hurt when Jesse went down was his rebounding and having another person to create. It wasn't so much having a point guard. Seth is a good point guard and can get his shot off while playing the point if he has other threats around him. Once Jesse was gone, the threat was gone. That, to me, was the biggest issue.

+1

Liberty was 5 for 22 from the floor after Sanders fouled out.

McKay said he went with Spencer for long stretches Saturday because he wanted a better defensive player on the floor. I too was wondering where Stephene was. That was his answer.

Yeah I don't understand why Stephene wasn't in there. Perhaps Coach thought Johnny's best attribute (getting into the paint) was negated by RU's bigs.

Stephene didn't seem to find his rythmn earlier in the game. He never really got in the flow.

Sometimes a coach may just go with his gut, and in this case he rolled the dice with Spencer, who normally plays error-free.

We play better when Johnny is able to drive and get a layup occasionally. He didn't get any of those on Saturday.

MVP - Smith. I think it's tight, but Smith does so much well for us and his senior leadership is huge.

I would say Smith hands down if he played like he has the last month the beginning of the season...but he struggled but I think hes going to finish strong so he will deserve it then...but right now its a toss up

That's the type of player Ant is though. He always starts off slow. He's done it every year. The fact that he has been playing the way he has been lately is amazing to me.

Edit: Actually, how can you say he started off slow? I just looked up his stats. He scores 15+ in six of the first seven games. He only scored less than 15 in three games before Christmas. He had over 20 points seven times before Christmas.

Seth - 20.7ppg, 44.7% shooting, 3.8 rebounds/game, 6 blocks, 30 steals, 36.4 minutes/game
Ant - 18.8ppg, 52.6% shooting, 7.0 rebounds/game, 5 blocks, 33 steals, 35.5 minutes/game

SuperJon wrote:That's the type of player Ant is though. He always starts off slow. He's done it every year. The fact that he has been playing the way he has been lately is amazing to me.

Edit: Actually, how can you say he started off slow? I just looked up his stats. He scores 15+ in six of the first seven games. He only scored less than 15 in three games before Christmas. He had over 20 points seven times before Christmas.

Seth - 20.7ppg, 44.7% shooting, 3.8 rebounds/game, 6 blocks, 30 steals, 36.4 minutes/game
Ant - 18.8ppg, 52.6% shooting, 7.0 rebounds/game, 5 blocks, 33 steals, 35.5 minutes/game

Thx for getting those stats together - Now - I'm hands down SMITH!!