[olldflame]

Pretty much ALUmnus. My broader point was that the whole concept of a 3 (or a 1,2 4, or 5) is not the future of basketball (or the present at LU for that matter). I keep thinking about "Realist" whining because "our post got injured", when in fact the guys who are playing for them in his place are better basketball players by far than Andy Beuchler. It's just that none of them fit his outmoded concept of a "5", so in his mind their team is incomplete.

There is no doubt Smitty fits to a T the old fashioned definition of a 3 as a guy 6'4-6'6 who is athletic and can shoot as well as rebound, but not really a good enough ball handler to be a full time guard. Throw in at least 1 who is a better ball handler, and you could have a pretty good lineup with 5 players who fit that description, .................or you could have an even better one without any. In our current setup, Baily Alston could probably play the small forward role which Kyle is now filling, and would be unstoppable.

[paradox]

I agree, if Bailey played today, he may very well be a 3. I don't know if he'd be "unstoppable", but very good nonetheless. I see him more as a quicker Mo Watkins type-player (Hank era), an exceptional undersized 6-2, 6-3 guy with an outstanding inside game.


But Anthony's still my all-time guy at the 3, and for my money one of the top players in program history.

[TIMSCAR20]

I think you guys forget how good Bailey was. He is by far the best 2 guard in terms of skills. He was one of the best defensive players too if he decided to do it. Dwight Brewington may be the most talented to ever put on a Liberty Uniform in terms of skill. TJ/Marcus White/Brian Woodson are in a tight race in terms of best PG of all time. Hildo is just a great all around player that could play the 1 and the 2 and was a great shooter from the PG position. His leadership ability has been umatched as well but I would say the 3 PG's I mentioned are all more skilled than Hildo. Hildo had a better career than each of them for various reasons: White and Woodson only played 2 seasons and TJ only played 1. I wouldn't even think of putting Seth in the top 5 until after he takes the uniform off and we have a chance to judge the entirety of his career. Here is my top 5 if I had to pick:

1. Marcus White
2. Bailey Alston
3. Gabe Martin
4. Mike Coleman
5. Julius Nwoso

You could easily have this one though:

1. Brian Woodson
2. Larry Blair
3. Anthony Smith
4. Alex McLean
5. Peter Aluma.

Ask me again next week and I might come up with another list. This stuff is so difficult to judge. I have only taken the division I guys into consideration too in this scenario.

[Sly Fox]

Hey Scar, no love for formerplayer & GOAT?

[paradox]

Go figure, Scar sets us straight once again: Bailey Alston was the 2nd greatest after Jordon. Aluma a second teamer and Hildebrand not even a second teamer ......nice.

Something tells me that even Seth, when its all said and done, won't hold a candle to the great one ...but, we'll let ya off the hook there buddy, since there's a personal dimension there with you & BA......






Back to Anthony, he's still unmatched as a 3, and should get his just due as a leader on what has already turned out to be one of most exciting seasons in LU history.

[Realist]

Pretty much ALUmnus. My broader point was that the whole concept of a 3 (or a 1,2 4, or 5) is not the future of basketball (or the present at LU for that matter). I keep thinking about "Realist" whining because "our post got injured", when in fact the guys who are playing for them in his place are better basketball players by far than Andy Beuchler. It's just that none of them fit his outmoded concept of a "5", so in his mind their team is incomplete.

There is no doubt Smitty fits to a T the old fashioned definition of a 3 as a guy 6'4-6'6 who is athletic and can shoot as well as rebound, but not really a good enough ball handler to be a full time guard. Throw in at least 1 who is a better ball handler, and you could have a pretty good lineup with 5 players who fit that description, .................or you could have an even better one without any. In our current setup, Baily Alston could probably play the small forward role which Kyle is now filling, and would be unstoppable.

Once again you prove to be a moron.

[olldflame]

Pretty much ALUmnus. My broader point was that the whole concept of a 3 (or a 1,2 4, or 5) is not the future of basketball (or the present at LU for that matter). I keep thinking about "Realist" whining because "our post got injured", when in fact the guys who are playing for them in his place are better basketball players by far than Andy Beuchler. It's just that none of them fit his outmoded concept of a "5", so in his mind their team is incomplete.

There is no doubt Smitty fits to a T the old fashioned definition of a 3 as a guy 6'4-6'6 who is athletic and can shoot as well as rebound, but not really a good enough ball handler to be a full time guard. Throw in at least 1 who is a better ball handler, and you could have a pretty good lineup with 5 players who fit that description, .................or you could have an even better one without any. In our current setup, Baily Alston could probably play the small forward role which Kyle is now filling, and would be unstoppable.

Once again you prove to be a moron.

Well, I guess you put me in my place. And so articulately.

[jcmanson]

Don't take it personally OF, WU fans are highly sensitive nowadays.

[TIMSCAR20]

Go figure, Scar sets us straight once again: Bailey Alston was the 2nd greatest after Jordon. Aluma a second teamer and Hildebrand not even a second teamer ......nice.

Something tells me that even Seth, when its all said and done, won't hold a candle to the great one ...but, we'll let ya off the hook there buddy, since there's a personal dimension there with you & BA......






Back to Anthony, he's still unmatched as a 3, and should get his just due as a leader on what has already turned out to be one of most exciting seasons in LU history.

Aluma is second team by position. I happen to think Juice was a better player. I played with Juice and coached Aluma. Juice was more athletic. Aluma was a better shot blocker but Juice rebounded...Like I said, you ask me next week I may have a different list. Of course Chris Caldwell and Larry Jackson are 2 of the best ever but Bailey is the 1st 2 guard on my list and Larry Blair is second due to the sheer numbers both players put up. If Seth continues on this path he will be considered one of the best for sure. Can't crown him yet Dox. "If you want to crown him, crown him" Denny Green

[TIMSCAR20]

I also said you could just as easily have second group of 5 as your 1st group. Hildo, Jackson, Caldwell were all extraordinary players. 2000 plus points in 3 seasons is impressive at any level, any era. That is why BA gets it for me. The truth is I didn't even get along with Bailey when we played and we actually had a shoving match during a game one time so to say I have a bias towards him because we were teammates Dox is a little misguided.

[TIMSCAR20]

[quote Back to Anthony, he's still unmatched as a 3, and should get his just due as a leader on what has already turned out to be one of most exciting seasons in LU history.[/quote]


I think the same thing about Hildo to tell the truth. If they don't get hot and win the tournament, His legacy is not the same. Statistically Larry Jackson and Hildo are about the same but Larry lost 2 big south championships. If he wins won or both of those Larry truly might be the GOAT (greatest of all time) in some people's eyes. If Smitty goes out a big south Champion like Gabe, he may get the nod. Smitty might be the most complete player we have had in a long time. He has very few weaknesses in his game at this point in his career.

[olldflame]

Smitty's game has plenty of strengths, but a couple of glaring weaknesses.

Free throw shooting
Turnovers

Tough to say which is worse.

[paradox]

Scar:

You can say all that about Hildo if you want, but he's still the most accurate 3pt scorer with the highest all-time 3pt %, highest % FT scorer, and top assist man of the D1 era. In addition, he led his team to LU's first NCAA berth, and averaged just under 20 wins per year over his last three seasons. He was as hard-nosed as it gets, and had a huge game against #1 UNC in a memorable NCAA tourney game. And of equal importance, he was a true leader, who made everyone around him better. So, my money is squarely on Matt for the moment.

As for Seth, I believe that he is eventually going to take LU to a higher level. And I'd be surprised if he doesn't develop into a legitmate NBA talent before it's all said and done. So, go ahead and color me Denny Green, if you will.



Flame:

I agree that FT shooting is an issue and concern for Anthony, however, I'm not so sure that 1.7 turnovers per game is much of an issue for a guy who touches the ball as much as he does. That said, his positives far out weigh his negatives.

[olldflame]

Anthony really doesn't handle the ball that much. The stat to look at re: turnovers is not so much how many per game as the assist/turnover ratio, and his is <1, which is not good. Jesse, for example, is almost 2.5/1.

[TIMSCAR20]

Scar:

You can say all that about Hildo if you want, but he's still the most accurate 3pt scorer with the highest all-time 3pt %, highest % FT scorer, and top assist man of the D1 era. In addition, he led his team to LU's first NCAA berth, and averaged just under 20 wins per year over his last three seasons. He was as hard-nosed as it gets, and had a huge game against #1 UNC in a memorable NCAA tourney game. And of equal importance, he was a true leader, who made everyone around him better. So, my money is squarely on Matt for the moment.

As for Seth, I believe that he is eventually going to take LU to a higher level. And I'd be surprised if he doesn't develop into a legitmate NBA talent before it's all said and done. So, go ahead and color me Denny Green, if you will.



Flame:

I agree that FT shooting is an issue and concern for Anthony, however, I'm not so sure that 1.7 turnovers per game is much of an issue for a guy who touches the ball as much as he does. That said, his positives far out weigh his negatives.

there is nothing to argue here. I agree with everything you said. I find it ironic that I am being accused of snubbing Hildo over BA because of friendship though because I am much closer to Hildo. We both wore # 20 and we have always been good friends from the moment he walked into the Vines. Me and BA have reconnected recently and talk from time to time and I consider him a friend too but I haven't let relationships cloud my judgement either way. As for BA, he hit over half his shots! 52% from the field is incredible and he took more shots than Seth or Larry Blair who are low 40% shooters. Seth may turn into all of those things but my money is still on Alston right now. I respect everyone's opinion on the subject though.

[TIMSCAR20]

As for Anthony having a TO problem I have to say that he is not a bad ball handler. Gabe Martin now that was an adventure if he had to dribble more than 2 times

[TIMSCAR20]

Anthony really doesn't handle the ball that much. The stat to look at re: turnovers is not so much how many per game as the assist/turnover ratio, and his is <1, which is not good. Jesse, for example, is almost 2.5/1.

You can't hold Smitty to Jesse's standard though when it comes to the ratio. Jesse is EXTREMELY exceptional in that department. a 2.5/1 ratio is unheard of for a freshman and for a senior for that matter most of the time. It simply does not happen.

[paradox]

Anthony's ratio is an even 1.7, which isn't bad when you compare him to other 3's & 4's, who often have more tunovers than assists. Normally, you have to be in the backcourt in order to compile an impressive assist to turnover ratio, but there are a few exceptions. Anthony's ratio is very similiar to former Wnthrop star Torrell Martin, arguably one of the best 3's that played in the big south, and oddly enough, he struggled at the FT line as well.

[paradox]

Scar:

You can say all that about Hildo if you want, but he's still the most accurate 3pt scorer with the highest all-time 3pt %, highest % FT scorer, and top assist man of the D1 era. In addition, he led his team to LU's first NCAA berth, and averaged just under 20 wins per year over his last three seasons. He was as hard-nosed as it gets, and had a huge game against #1 UNC in a memorable NCAA tourney game. And of equal importance, he was a true leader, who made everyone around him better. So, my money is squarely on Matt for the moment.

As for Seth, I believe that he is eventually going to take LU to a higher level. And I'd be surprised if he doesn't develop into a legitmate NBA talent before it's all said and done. So, go ahead and color me Denny Green, if you will.



Flame:

I agree that FT shooting is an issue and concern for Anthony, however, I'm not so sure that 1.7 turnovers per game is much of an issue for a guy who touches the ball as much as he does. That said, his positives far out weigh his negatives.

there is nothing to argue here. I agree with everything you said. I find it ironic that I am being accused of snubbing Hildo over BA because of friendship though because I am much closer to Hildo. We both wore # 20 and we have always been good friends from the moment he walked into the Vines. Me and BA have reconnected recently and talk from time to time and I consider him a friend too but I haven't let relationships cloud my judgement either way. As for BA, he hit over half his shots! 52% from the field is incredible and he took more shots than Seth or Larry Blair who are low 40% shooters. Seth may turn into all of those things but my money is still on Alston right now. I respect everyone's opinion on the subject though.

I wasn't implying that you were buddies with BA, but simply pointing out that you have a personal association because you played with him. Therefore, perhaps just a little temptation for embellishment, but completely understandable nonetheless.

By your own admission, Bailey, as a 2 didn't have an outside shot. That may be at least one of the reasons why none of BA's teams, D2 or provisional, ever had a winning record, and struggled against the likes of the Pitt-Johnstowns and West Virginia Wesleyans.

Great athlete through. Long arms, nice moves, great leaping ability for a man his size. Like Brewington, add more inches to his frame and you may be looking at a potential forward in the NBA.

Had BA played in the big south, he may have been a 3, like Mo Watkins, who was similair in size, not as quick as BA, but could effectively score inside and used his athleticism and determination to rebound effectively, especially for a 6-2 guy.

[jcmanson]

Anthony really doesn't handle the ball that much. The stat to look at re: turnovers is not so much how many per game as the assist/turnover ratio, and his is <1, which is not good. Jesse, for example, is almost 2.5/1.

You can't hold Smitty to Jesse's standard though when it comes to the ratio. Jesse is EXTREMELY exceptional in that department. a 2.5/1 ratio is unheard of for a freshman and for a senior for that matter most of the time. It simply does not happen.

But what really matters is what was SCAR's assist/to ratio?

[olldflame]

You are definately right about Jesse's assist/turnover being exceptional SCAR. As far as Smitty is concerned, for a player who does not live in the post, anything less than 1 is certainly not a strength, and could be considered a weakness.

[Hold My Own]

Ant was #7 on Top Plays on Sports Center

[jcmanson]

Senior night tonight. Props to Smitty on a great career. As RMK has been stating all year, hopefully we send him out as conference champs and a trip to the Dance.

[jcmanson]

At least you came to play on your senior night.

18 points 13 boards

[LCA&LU Mom]

Smith thrives for Flames with McKay as coach
By Chris Lang
Published: March 17, 2009
News Advance

......All will be watching tonight, hoping that Smith and the Flames can beat Rider and play on. He’s not quite ready to turn in his Liberty uniform yet, a stark change from the summer of 2006.

Click here for full story

Anthony has a 10 month old and a 2 month old??? and a wife and a full time college schedule and he plays basketball? WOW. My admiration for Anthony just went through the roof!