[BJWilliams]

Frankly this discussion is not productive for anyone. Hopefully everybody has gotten this out of their system so we can move forward. Suffice it to say there clearly was a difference in opinion of the state of the program and the man who is ultimately responsible to make a decision did just that. He'll be held accountable for his moves just as Coach Dunton was held accountable for his record.

I motion that this thread be locked and no further threads discussing this be created...do I have a second?

[TallyW]

Not from me.

We can't neuter the board as long as people aren't personally attacking. We can have different opinions on here and go at it from time to time. Lively debate is healthy. When you're a D-1 coach or AD, you take the job knowing that people will have opinions... some good, some bad. Some fair, some not.

It seems silly to me to lock boards every time it gets over 5 pages and it's not happy-go-lucky. We're grown. People will quit responding when they are over it.

[Hold My Own]

if there's basis then it needs to be said...and so far there seems to be basis

[olldflame]

SlyFox just commented on the thread, and while he indicated it may have run it's course, he chose not to lock it. Good enough for me. It may be that someone else can offer a fresh point of view which will enlighten us all. I agree w/TallyW that unless things get malicous or personal there is no need to "censor".

[grm]

Again, I'm really just answering questions, and I feel that answering questions should be allowed. Jeff has the authority to do what he did, and I'm not questioning that for a moment. We've had pctures of RD's face on the board with a line through it, unkind tag lines etc, and it all went with the job. Sure, I complained, but it was a part of the lively discussion. I'm not trying to say nasty things about anyone - just kind of answering some of the questions that were posed or alluded to - as I saw it unfold.

I'm glad that some of the FlameFans will get their chance at a new coach, and I wish them all well. Randy Dunton is Randy Dunton, and Jeff Barber is Jeff Barber. Both profess Jesus Christ, and both are Americans. Go LU.

[Sly Fox]

I prefer letting nature run its course and hope that everyone finds a better topic to talk about. With JB playing this selection process very close the vest it has some of us grasping for real discussion. I get that. But I don't think dragging these two gentlemen's names through the mud does anybody any good at this point.

[thepostman]

Frankly this discussion is not productive for anyone. Hopefully everybody has gotten this out of their system so we can move forward. Suffice it to say there clearly was a difference in opinion of the state of the program and the man who is ultimately responsible to make a decision did just that. He'll be held accountable for his moves just as Coach Dunton was held accountable for his record.

I motion that this thread be locked and no further threads discussing this be created...do I have a second?

no man...nobody is saying anything out of line...not every thread about the old coaching regime needs to be locked....I may not agree with what lureal says to be true, but there is nothing wrong with discussing it....Like somebody else said...there have been no personal attacks at all...its fine...this attitude that some people have about blocking every RD thread is ridiculous...it is still relevant...last I checked we don't have a new coach to talk about yet....

[mrich]

Again, I'm really just answering questions, and I feel that answering questions should be allowed. Jeff has the authority to do what he did, and I'm not questioning that for a moment. We've had pctures of RD's face on the board with a line through it, unkind tag lines etc, and it all went with the job. Sure, I complained, but it was a part of the lively discussion. I'm not trying to say nasty things about anyone - just kind of answering some of the questions that were posed or alluded to - as I saw it unfold.

I'm glad that some of the FlameFans will get their chance at a new coach, and I wish them all well. Randy Dunton is Randy Dunton, and Jeff Barber is Jeff Barber. Both profess Jesus Christ, and both are Americans. Go LU.

Just a question, because I have no idea who you are. What position are you in to answer these questions? If you don't want to answer thats cool too.

[grm]

I'll say it. I have no "position" but I am a very close personal friend of Randy, and I have had an extremely close view of the things I spoke of. Not to say that I'm prefectly objective, but I'm trying to be. At any rate, I'm pulling for you guys
(us guys) and for success in the basketball programs.

[Sly Fox]

grm has been nothing but an extremely classy poster on this site and I hope he stays with us even though Coach D is no longer on the mountain. He's never hidden his relationship with Randy or his adamant support for what he was doing. There is honor in that type of loyalty.

[grm]

Thank you Sly - I'll be with you - and thank you for the great job you have done!

God bless

[lureal]

we can all pray for rose colored glasses about the prince rides into town and sets the programs on their winning way. my perspective is that jb was unprofessional and manufactured any negative he could to open the position. certainly expectations hurt rd and the losing skid mid-year. but he deserved a better review of his work here. we have arguably the best returning roster at the time of dunton's departure and even chris lang says are positioned to challenge for the title next year. jb public statements and inconsistent statements to those around the and in the program lend to questions about his leadership not dunton's

[thesportscritic]

we can all pray for rose colored glasses about the prince rides into town and sets the programs on their winning way. my perspective is that jb was unprofessional and manufactured any negative he could to open the position. certainly expectations hurt rd and the losing skid mid-year. but he deserved a better review of his work here. we have arguably the best returning roster at the time of dunton's departure and even chris lang says are positioned to challenge for the title next year. jb public statements and inconsistent statements to those around the and in the program lend to questions about his leadership not dunton's

He (RD) had 5 years. that is long enough. Get over it!!!!!!!! if JB is so negative name specific ways that he is a negative AD.

[Purple Haize]

LU - The expectations were RD's expectations. Are we anywhere NEAR where he said we would be after 5 years of him at the helm? Best recruiting class in the RD years? That is a little strong considering the ones he had under JM and the one that gave us LB and DD. How in the WORLD can you say what JB did was unprofessional or he acted that way? He did not leave him hanging in the wind, and he treated him better in his dismissal than the last two coaches were treated. You act as though there was nothing negative surrounding the program until JB came in and started sowing seeds of discord. What planet are YOU from? There have been seeds of discontent sowed since before RD returned.
And again, I think we see a recurring theme: When something bad happens to the MBB it is NEVER RD's fault.

[Fumblerooskies]

we can all pray for rose colored glasses about the prince rides into town and sets the programs on their winning way. my perspective is that jb was unprofessional and manufactured any negative he could to open the position. certainly expectations hurt rd and the losing skid mid-year. but he deserved a better review of his work here. we have arguably the best returning roster at the time of dunton's departure and even chris lang says are positioned to challenge for the title next year. jb public statements and inconsistent statements to those around the and in the program lend to questions about his leadership not dunton's

From my observation of the situation...
...I think the previous coach helped himself out the door in many ways. I seriously think the AD did a quite comprehensive review of the situation...both on and off the court.

[flameshaw]

we can all pray for rose colored glasses about the prince rides into town and sets the programs on their winning way. my perspective is that jb was unprofessional and manufactured any negative he could to open the position. certainly expectations hurt rd and the losing skid mid-year. but he deserved a better review of his work here. we have arguably the best returning roster at the time of dunton's departure and even chris lang says are positioned to challenge for the title next year. jb public statements and inconsistent statements to those around the and in the program lend to questions about his leadership not dunton's

LUnreal,

I am not sure JB had to "manufacture any negatives" at all to open the position, after all he is the AD. He should be able to make any decision he needs to make, cleared by the Chancellor of course like at any school.
MAYBE all he had to do was look at RD's 77-101? record in one of the worst D1 conferences, and think we needed a change. MAYBE it was that we won 1 D1 game against a team with a winning record.

Haize is right, if expectations were set too high, RD set them. Based on his expectations, he fell FAR short.

My personal opinion is that regardless of our record over the last few years, RD was/is not the right guy to take this program to the next level. Could/would we have won an occasional BSC championship if RD stayed? Doubtful but maybe. Is that all we want from our program? Don't know what the big boys want, but I am hoping for more. Let's get the new guy on board and get the wagon rolling straight and fast.

Go Flames!!!!!!

[mrich]

I'll say it. I have no "position" but I am a very close personal friend of Randy, and I have had an extremely close view of the things I spoke of. Not to say that I'm prefectly objective, but I'm trying to be. At any rate, I'm pulling for you guys
(us guys) and for success in the basketball programs.

Thanks for clarifying. Not to be rude, but I think that you are right in the fact that you are not objective. Of course RD is going to make it sound like he was shafted, because he thinks he was. With all due respect, I am sure there is more to the story than what RD told you. Who cares though, it's done, and unless Lureal gets on here blabbing again I'm done talking about it.

[lureal]

please when the kings of gossip was at their height no one called it babbling. flameshaw we will all be cheering but let's see if jb's man matches what dunton got done and that is with his best team in the stable. not what dunton picked up when he arrived. rather you like it or not the fact is that barber was unprofessional and the mansion had to make calls to media regarding his ridiculous statements. dunton was alot closer to his goals in my opinion. when i watch tj in practice and saw lamont last summer..two real talents. winthrop is ranked 21st in the latest poll and byu 23rd so we were headed in a positive direction. maybe dunton set a timetable he didn't meet but i believe he would have built something special. jb wants his mark on it and he now has his opportunity will see what gets done. it just to bad he had to use unprofessional ways at best.

[thepostman]

He wasn't unprofessional though, he was asked a question and he answered it honestly...I wish more people would be like that....I hate how much is kept from the public eye....that is how this whole situation began to begin with with RD is all sorts of stuff going on and nobody wanting to talk about it....

That is all in the past though...I think that JB so far has done a good job at running things....I always have liked RD and really feel bad for him and his family...but when coaching D1 athletics this is what you have to expect....

I can not wait for an announcement to be made....then we can focus on that....this in between time is killing me

[lureal]

how would you define lying, deceit and willful misrepresentation? spreading gossip with any face to face confrontation. not all that glitters is gold. yes it is division I athletics and dunton is a big boy who will find other opportunities, let's not act like some big review was done. this decision was made long before the season in my mind with the ridiculous statements jb made. this is an ad wanting his face in front

[TallyW]

[thepostman]

how would you define lying, deceit and willful misrepresentation? spreading gossip with any face to face confrontation. not all that glitters is gold. yes it is division I athletics and dunton is a big boy who will find other opportunities, let's not act like some big review was done. this decision was made long before the season in my mind with the ridiculous statements jb made. this is an ad wanting his face in front

I never said anything about lying...all I said is just honestly answering a question instead of beating around the bush.....I respect that a lot....JB has not been here long enough for me to say he has done a good job or bad job...so far he has done a heck of a job...but only time will tell...

Maybe the team was a year away from something special with RD...maybe not...we will never know...but he did give himself a timetable...and he didn't reach his goals...this is division one athletics and if you can't even reach your own goals then something is going to happen...

Either way I think it is impossible for you to view things objectivly...I don't hate Dunton, I think he is a great guy...JB did what he thought was right, and we will find out a year or two from now if that was a good choice or not....

Until you see this thing play out completely it is impossible to form a true opinion on something, unless of course you have already decided pre-maturely where you stand

[lureal]

look we can shape as a right versus wrong move but these things happen all the time when a new ad with a big ego walks in. dunton had his detractors and was vulnerable with the season. but it is obvious that jb was out to get dunton. some ads would have rode through it and some would cease the opportunity to get their own guy. the guys go to class no felonies and seem very respectful and everyone seems to think can bring home a championship. but now jb is center stage with the search and hire. he didn't hire rocco or dunton so it is important that he has his mark. itis on him now and we will see if he can get it done or he needs to go next.

[thepostman]

well, i am not sure why you are so negative...but thats your choice i guess...I for one think a change probably was needed...I don't know JB personally so I can not say his motives....if I was running things though I would've probably chosen not to renew RD's contract....but that is where we differ I guess which is fine...I disagree sometimes with my best friends...it happens

I guess the point I am trying to make is how about before completely throwing JB under the bus like you have...how about you wait and see how everything unfolds....because really nobody can fairly come to any conclusions on the job JB has done one way or another

[thesportscritic]

again lureal name specific examples when JB was unprofessional if not (which i know you can't) don't come on here and say what a bad job he is doing. Go hide somewhere with that crap.