[jinxy]

Layers career resume is what it is. Looks no different here. Blah blah blah

[Bigsouthking]

Tell Lang to start asking another player questions: it's always a Sanders quote, tired of reading, "its on us we have 6 seniors, etc...... What does Burrus think? How bout Marshall?

When you place 4 players in double figures and can only score 62 points you got problems on offense, not defense.

[Chris Lang]

I talked to Marshall. Sanders' quotes were better. But Marshall said essentially the same thing.

[Purple Haize]

When you place 4 players in double figures and can only score 62 points you got problems on offense, not defense.

Possibly one of the most ill informed posts you have made

[Bigsouthking]

Purple Haize, I mean John Wooden-- 62 points isn't beating anyone in the Big Suck....you get 4 guys in double figures you should be around 75. ---

[Purple Haize]

Purple Haize, I mean John Wooden-- 62 points isn't beating anyone in the Big Suck....you get 4 guys in double figures you should be around 75. ---

62 points will win you games in the following conferences
ACC
Big 10
PAC 10
SEC

So I'm positive that it will win in the Big South. When we collapse it's because we can stop anyone. Having 4 people in double figures is completely irrelevant Now if you had 4 players in double figures and didn't have more than 39 points you would have problems

[TDDance234]

Offense has always been our problem under Layer.

Every possession starts a step inside half court. We get hardly any movement out of it - we just swing the ball back and forth looking to jack up a three. We occasionally get the ball down low but as it's already been discussed, if we don't get anything quickly or within 6 feet of the basket, we can't score.

We get nothing easy. Everything is a grind. We aren't big/athletic enough to grind out every possession and expect to score a ton.

On most nights, the effort is there... it's probably why we've enjoyed any success at all with Dale but the strategy sometimes is hard to watch.

[Bigsouthking]

Yeah 62 points will help you win some games, against teams that are offensively inept, like Northwestern or BC, or Clemson at that level.... But your not winning on the road at Radford, VMI, CSU, UNCA, or Longwood by only scoring 62 points....

You obviously come from tradition or what I call brain washed group that believes in defense wins championships! Yeah right boys, marshall 3 point shooting last year in the tournament won LU a title!
Blair and Dees making shots blew out High Point in 03... 94 with Aluma & Matt a ring!! And oh yeah the teams that lost in 96 & 97 were ice freaking cold in the title games!

It's shot making and defensive rebounding that wins! Liberty can rebound but can they make shots consistently????

[Lburglifer]

IMHO it is a recruiting problem.

[Purple Haize]

Yeah 62 points will help you win some games, against teams that are offensively inept, like Northwestern or BC, or Clemson at that level.... But your not winning on the road at Radford, VMI, CSU, UNCA, or Longwood by only scoring 62 points....

You obviously come from tradition or what I call brain washed group that believes in defense wins championships! Yeah right boys, marshall 3 point shooting last year in the tournament won LU a title!
Blair and Dees making shots blew out High Point in 03... 94 with Aluma & Matt a ring!! And oh yeah the teams that lost in 96 & 97 were ice freaking cold in the title games!

It's shot making and defensive rebounding that wins! Liberty can rebound but can they make shots consistently????

You said you couldn't win ANY games scoring 62 points. Now you say its possible. Which is it?
Find me one coach who doesn't believe defense wins championships. You won't, because it does. If your theory were true, LMU would have had multiple titles, Paul Westhead would be the highest paid coach in America with several of his disciples at other schools, Grinnell College would be a house hold name and Mike D'Antoninwould have more rings than fingers.

There are different types of defenses that do different types of things. Some try to limit possessions and keep games in the 60's. Some try to generate possessions and the score is in material. We have gone to the Tournament 3 times. Hot shooting can win you some tournament games, no doubt about it. And last year that was the case. But the other 2 times? Tough defense was a huge factor. Alumna wasn't exactly the most skilled of offensive players but he certainly was an intimidating presence. In our other tournament run, we had a lot of athletes that played very good defense. Good/Great defense will ALWAYS beat good to great offenses. You can always use defense to generate offense and easy shots.
Do I like the style that Layer plays? Not really. But that doesn't mean his philosophy is wrong. Now if you want to talk about talent level you may be on to something.

[Bigsouthking]

You a clown PH...

Grinnel is a joke & Larry jackson is on staff their BTW... You trash offense look at West Liberty in WVA -- A D-2 power win the their conference CHAMPIONSHIPS every year!!!! National Runner up once... VMI in Baucom's early years turned that program from nothing to a contender by playing fast, 3 Championship appearances!! LMU went to what the Elite 8 and won their conference championship!! How many mid majors would like to go to the elite 8... ( And by the way West Liberty, Grinnel, VMI, LMU are all crappy jobs and coaches had to do somethings different to get their programs some momentum so they played fast and it has helped) Randy Peele and Randy Dunton preached defense but both got fired cause their teams ultimately couldnt score enough to win. CSU has been playing faster last several years and won the division.
the simple fact is coaches are scared to play fast and allow kids freedom to make plays. and granted there are some teams that play too fast or shoot to quick... Liberty should be able to get to 75 points and win majority of their games

[Bigsouthking]

And Aluma wasnt skilled enough, shows how much you DO NOT know.... He was MVP in a losing effort with 23 and 12 vs CSU... He wasnt as a freshman but was dominant on both ends after that!

[Purple Haize]

You a clown PH...

Grinnel is a joke & Larry jackson is on staff their BTW... You trash offense look at West Liberty in WVA -- A D-2 power win the their conference CHAMPIONSHIPS every year!!!! National Runner up once... VMI in Baucom's early years turned that program from nothing to a contender by playing fast, 3 Championship appearances!! LMU went to what the Elite 8 and won their conference championship!! How many mid majors would like to go to the elite 8... ( And by the way West Liberty, Grinnel, VMI, LMU are all crappy jobs and coaches had to do somethings different to get their programs some momentum so they played fast and it has helped) Randy Peele and Randy Dunton preached defense but both got fired cause their teams ultimately couldnt score enough to win. CSU has been playing faster last several years and won the division.
the simple fact is coaches are scared to play fast and allow kids freedom to make plays. and granted there are some teams that play too fast or shoot to quick... Liberty should be able to get to 75 points and win majority of their games

Granted I'm still hoping to get a head coaching break with Upward (it looks like I can get on as an assistant this season) but your post has a bunch of contradictions.
1- you equate defense with playing slow. Who ever said that? You are confusing 'pace' with defense.
2- if Westhead's philosophy is so sound why could he not replicate it at other schools? What other schools did he take to an a Elite 8? LMU got hot and had a great story, but they only went 1x. Great for the school but can't be done consistently.
3- how many Champioships has VMI won in the BSC running that system?
4 - you mentioned Coaches that emphasis defense in the BSC that got canned. But you know what? They went to the Tournament. VMI would love that.
5- I agree that LU should win the majority of games.
6- Jeff Meyer. It's the rules. And btw, he also emphasized defense and made it to the Tournament and was in several BSC Championship games.

[Purple Haize]

And Aluma wasnt skilled enough, shows how much you DO NOT know.... He was MVP in a losing effort with 23 and 12 vs CSU... He wasnt as a freshman but was dominant on both ends after that!

You really need to work on your reading skills. I never said he wasn't skilled enough. I said he wasn't exactly the most skilled post player. He dominated with his size and power in a league that hadn't seen too many players like him. He was a good player, especially here.

[Bigsouthking]

You a clown PH...

Grinnel is a joke & Larry jackson is on staff their BTW... You trash offense look at West Liberty in WVA -- A D-2 power win the their conference CHAMPIONSHIPS every year!!!! National Runner up once... VMI in Baucom's early years turned that program from nothing to a contender by playing fast, 3 Championship appearances!! LMU went to what the Elite 8 and won their conference championship!! How many mid majors would like to go to the elite 8... ( And by the way West Liberty, Grinnel, VMI, LMU are all crappy jobs and coaches had to do somethings different to get their programs some momentum so they played fast and it has helped) Randy Peele and Randy Dunton preached defense but both got fired cause their teams ultimately couldnt score enough to win. CSU has been playing faster last several years and won the division.
the simple fact is coaches are scared to play fast and allow kids freedom to make plays. and granted there are some teams that play too fast or shoot to quick... Liberty should be able to get to 75 points and win majority of their games

Granted I'm still hoping to get a head coaching break with Upward (it looks like I can get on as an assistant this season) but your post has a bunch of contradictions.
1- you equate defense with playing slow. Who ever said that? You are confusing 'pace' with defense.
2- if Westhead's philosophy is so sound why could he not replicate it at other schools? What other schools did he take to an a Elite 8? LMU got hot and had a great story, but they only went 1x. Great for the school but can't be done consistently.
3- how many Champioships has VMI won in the BSC running that system?
4 - you mentioned Coaches that emphasis defense in the BSC that got canned. But you know what? They went to the Tournament. VMI would love that.
5- I agree that LU should win the majority of games.
6- Jeff Meyer. It's the rules. And btw, he also emphasized defense and made it to the Tournament and was in several BSC Championship games.

1- probably a debate to answer in person
2-If Westhead gets a job at a better location he wins more
3- so not making 3 championship games in 8 years at Military school isnt worthy accomplishment? Baucom all time wins leader at school btw
4-those coaches also coached 2 best jobs in conference Winthrop & Liberty. both of their head coaching records are brutal
6-Jeff Meyer was offensively challenged as a coach, had White and Jackson and wouldnt let them
run??? are you kidding me???

1 thing i will add, and you will see this during Upward season, if your kids make shots they will guard better... VCU final 4 run came from them making shots not defense...

[Bigsouthking]

Duke always plays better defense in Cameron Indoor after they make a shot and pond the floor.... VCU is tough in Siegel cause thats like a zoo, they struggle on the road or in neutral court.... see the NCAA touranment last year Michigan smoked Havoc!!

i have posted this nonsense before to, but obviously you didnt read it. good luck during Upward.

[Purple Haize]

How is Pace v Defense a debate for something in person? Arkansas played great defense under Richardson but were 'uptempo'. Wisconsin plays great defense but is very slow and plodding. Syracuse plays a zone and can win scoring 100 or scoring 60.
It's a worthy accomplishment at VMI but what has he won?
If Paul Westhead's philosophy was so great why didn't he get a better job? Although he did do well with it in the WNBA. But even then he tightened up the defensive end.

[Purple Haize]

Duke always plays better defense in Cameron Indoor after they make a shot and pond the floor.... VCU is tough in Siegel cause thats like a zoo, they struggle on the road or in neutral court.... see the NCAA touranment last year Michigan smoked Havoc!!

i have posted this nonsense before to, but obviously you didnt read it. good luck during Upward.

Pretty much EVERY team plays better at home. I'm fairly certain that's why they call it home court advantage
And Coach B preaches Defense and has your afore mentioned offensively challenged Jeff Meyer as his top assistant.

[bballfan84]

I look like the genius that i am when i voted in the poll earlier this year that we would only have 10-15 wins...guys were getting blasted for that

[bballfan84]

when i was playing back in 03-05 I knew I would never see playing time..due to the talent we had on our team. For a school like Liberty low major program we had some SERIOUS ballers..compared to the players we have now I could start. its truly pathetic..all blame is on layer..theres no point in debating anythign else

[Purple Haize]

when i was playing back in 03-05 I knew I would never see playing time..due to the talent we had on our team. For a school like Liberty low major program we had some SERIOUS ballers..compared to the players we have now I could start. its truly pathetic..all blame is on layer..theres no point in debating anythign else

I'm not saying we have oodles of talent but Layer isn't the one on the floor. Layer isn't the one putting out horrible effort on defense. Layer isn't the one dribbling all over the court and taking bad shots. Layer shoulders some of the responsibility but so do the players

[Chris Lang]

The defense is a funny thing ... Liberty actually leads the Big South in scoring defense, but it seems to be a five-minute stretch of bad defense in every loss that costs the Flames. Gotta find a way to cut those stretches down a bit. Flames didn't have a bad defensive game against Radford. They had a few bad defensive minutes when Davis drove the lane with impunity and Anderson got free for open 3s. But the "not trusting each other" thing cropped up again on offense, and it wasn't a good picture.

[Purple Haize]

But the "not trusting each other" thing cropped up again on offense, and it wasn't a good picture.

I'm seriously going to start looking for my screen name in the N and A reference section!

[bballfan84]

I am not worried about our defense..we do not have a guy who can just go and get a bucket..havent had that since Layer became head coach.

[ludlpstudent]

Retic could be that type of player but he chooses the pass first mentality. He would be the only one on the team that I would consider as a create your on shot type of player. Everyone else relies on a pick to get an open look. I was at the Radford game and the problem was turnovers and missing shots close to the basket not necessarily the defense. We also can't seem to inbound the ball with consistency. We are very close to 5 second rule every time we inbound under our own basket. Its the little/fundamentals things that the team needs to work on if they are going to make another run at the tournament.