[jcmanson]

Ring around the rosy, here we go!!!!

[LUconn]

I love how RD keeps getting credit for how good Murray State is. ONE OF THEM WAS ON OUR TEAM! WOW!

[jcmanson]

I love how RD keeps getting credit for how good Murray State is. ONE OF THEM WAS ON OUR TEAM! WOW!

Does RM get credit for how good Duke is?

[olldflame]

Superjon is the Robert Gibbs of the jb administration. He is lives to shine the expensive mediocrity we have produced.

Old Flame wasn't RD the first coach to get us a ACC win vs the University of Virginia.

The RD facts(according to BSC records) are that in:

02-03 8-6 2nd
03-04 12-4 1st
04-05 11-5 2nd Where would we have been if Woodson and Williams had not been injured?
06-07 8-6 3rd
39-21 65% winning

yes he decided to remove Elijah Miller in August of 05 and must wear the 3-13, but it wasn't and is not the typical RD year. And we were LOADED for 07-08. Do you seriously think RD would not have been at the top of the Big South. That team would have looked like this Murray St team and guess what... one of his is on that team.

So the JB pundits say we are better off with the 4,3,6 finishes. The BIG South is not close to the years of RD yet the pundits boast. When we get some talent on the floor that can do better than a 4th-3rd-6th finish there may be need for a debate. Until then it is just Robert Gibbs spinning away.

Here are a couple of links for you checkers:

05-06 season: http://www.libertyflames.com/index.cfm? ... 3&teamID=6
Just to prove it actually happened. You say that he "must wear" the 3-13. but then you don't include it in his record. There are no "mulligans" in college basketball. I got a good laugh about your Elijah Miller remark.

02-03 season (Looks like 8-8 to me. Which 2 losses aren't we counting?): http://www.libertyflames.com/index.cfm? ... 3&teamID=6
I see that we lost twice to Birmingham Southern. The LU site shows them as conference games. It's possible that was still considered a transitional year for them. Either way, they were losses.

If you don't want to count the interum year, OK. That makes RD's conference record for 5 years 42-36, which is .538. Using your figures for 02-03 it would be .553. RMK + Layer = .588

My only point in all of this is that from the day RD was not renewed, your basis for it being an injustice has been that he had such a wonderful record in the BSC, and that things have deteriorated since. In fact, our record both in and out of conference has been better over the last 3 years.

[Stevev]

Of course it does help our OOC record when you are matched up against the Houghton's, Cinncinati Christians, and the Shaunee State's of the world also. I don't think that Dunton played as much low level competition as Coach Layer played. Not trying to defend Dunton. Just trying to make a point.

[olldflame]

We've usually played anywhere from 1 to 4 D2 or NAIA games a year, going back all the way to Meyer's days. It's true that in his first few years RD only played 1 or 2 a year. Then inexplicably, he scheduled 5 in 06-07:

Barton (lost)
Cedarville
Cincinnati Christian
Houghton
Southern Virginia.

We have played 4 in each of the past 3 years. If you don't think it's fair to compare the total schedule, just compare the record against D1 opponents. As far as the strength of our D1 pre-conference, I think the idea that RD had us playing an Eddie Biedenbach-like killer schedule full of powerhouse opponents is largely urban myth (see Atrains post earlier), and you can have a really good argument over whether that's a great idea anyway.

[Chris Lang]

Barton was an exhibition. DI teams are not allowed to play more than four nons a year.

[olldflame]

Barton was an exhibition. DI teams are not allowed to play more than four nons a year.

So, in other words, he scheduled so many he had to make one of them an exhibition. I give him credit for picking the right one, so the loss didn't officially count. That was a really good Barton team which made that unbelievable comeback in the last minute or so to win the D2 national championship game.

[Stevev]

I agree it is pointless to defend what Dunton did and why he should still be the coach and all. I would have thought that with the resources that we have and the money we throw at mens hoops you would expect a "Cary Green" like dominance in a conference that is sayed to be declining in competitiveness.

[El Scorcho]

This thread is like watching two brothers argue over which of their sister's ex-boyfriends beat her the least.

[g-webb1994]

Barton was an exhibition. DI teams are not allowed to play more than four nons a year.

Goes back to my point about how one good thing the A-Sun did while G-W was there, and apparently still does, is only allowing member schools to play 2 non D-1 opponents per year. If KK would nut up and do the same in the Big South, the RPI would improve, and I don't think such a mandate would create that much ill will amongst Big South coaches and ADs either.

[thepostman]

Superjon is the Robert Gibbs of the jb administration. He is lives to shine the expensive mediocrity we have produced.

Old Flame wasn't RD the first coach to get us a ACC win vs the University of Virginia.

The RD facts(according to BSC records) are that in:

02-03 8-6 2nd
03-04 12-4 1st
04-05 11-5 2nd Where would we have been if Woodson and Williams had not been injured?
06-07 8-6 3rd
39-21 65% winning

yes he decided to remove Elijah Miller in August of 05 and must wear the 3-13, but it wasn't and is not the typical RD year. And we were LOADED for 07-08. Do you seriously think RD would not have been at the top of the Big South. That team would have looked like this Murray St team and guess what... one of his is on that team.

So the JB pundits say we are better off with the 4,3,6 finishes. The BIG South is not close to the years of RD yet the pundits boast. When we get some talent on the floor that can do better than a 4th-3rd-6th finish there may be need for a debate. Until then it is just Robert Gibbs spinning away.

SJ loves JB and you forget a season even existed...hmm what is worse??

[olldflame]

I agree it is pointless to defend what Dunton did and why he should still be the coach and all. I would have thought that with the resources that we have and the money we throw at mens hoops you would expect a "Cary Green" like dominance in a conference that is sayed to be declining in competitiveness.

I would love to see it of course, but the fact is it's easier to dominate in WBB than in MBB. Witness LU, Old Dominion in the CAA, and UCon in the nation. We haven't seen anything like that in MBB since the Wooden era. Even Winthrop's record in the BSC pales by comparison. Without steriotyping too much, I think in general elite female christian athletes have different priorities than their male counterparts. They are less likely to focus on a future professional career in their sport. Even for those who do, at LU we have established that our WBB players can and will go high in the WNBA draft. I think if we were to have one of our guys actually have an NBA career, it would help our recruiting immensely. There are guys out there who would love it at LU, but see themselves as future pros (rightly or wrongly) and don't think LU is a viable career choiced. See Seth Curry.

[jcmanson]

Barton was an exhibition. DI teams are not allowed to play more than four nons a year.

Goes back to my point about how one good thing the A-Sun did while G-W was there, and apparently still does, is only allowing member schools to play 2 non D-1 opponents per year. If KK would nut up and do the same in the Big South, the RPI would improve, and I don't think such a mandate would create that much ill will amongst Big South coaches and ADs either.

I agree with your point, but your argument is inaccurate as non-D1 games aren't factored into RPI. It's as if those games weren't played.

[g-webb1994]

Barton was an exhibition. DI teams are not allowed to play more than four nons a year.

Goes back to my point about how one good thing the A-Sun did while G-W was there, and apparently still does, is only allowing member schools to play 2 non D-1 opponents per year. If KK would nut up and do the same in the Big South, the RPI would improve, and I don't think such a mandate would create that much ill will amongst Big South coaches and ADs either.

I agree with your point, but your argument is inaccurate as non-D1 games aren't factored into RPI. It's as if those games weren't played.

Yeah, I know, just IMO, if the conference would play two or three more games that did count in the RPI, it wouldn't hurt at all, it would help. You can name oodles of D-1 level opponents within a 90 minute drive off all of our campuses, it is really inexcusable to not play a full D-1 schedule, every game, if we are honest.

[jcmanson]

I agree

[LUconn]

Except those games have their purpose. Which obviously has nothing to do with RPI. Every team needs a few cupcakes for various reasons like, boosting your record, working out kinks, getting some confidence, etc. When you're in one of the worst conferences and you ARE a cupcake, guaranteed wins are hard to find at the D1 level.

[g-webb1994]

Except those games have their purpose. Which obviously has nothing to do with RPI. Every team needs a few cupcakes for various reasons like, boosting your record, working out kinks, getting some confidence, etc. When you're in one of the worst conferences and you ARE a cupcake, guaranteed wins are hard to find at the D1 level.

True to a point, but I believe if the Big South would take the initiative to schedule some MEAC and A-Sun opponents, that the 'tastiness' of our cupcake tag would fade. Bringing Campbell back in helps, and it would help if KK would make a push to get ETSU to come in as well. The Big South needs to be proactive so when LU finally jumps ship for the CAA we can be ready.

[Cider Jim]

When you're in one of the worst conferences and you ARE a cupcake

That hurts, LUconn, but sometimes the truth hurts.

The Big South needs to be proactive so when LU finally jumps ship for the CAA we can be ready.

Is G-W94 drinking some LU ? That's certainly the field of dreams that some of us have.

[flamesfilmguy]

Can we please not talk about joining the CAA? its not happening anytime soon if ever. thanks.

[g-webb1994]

Can we please not talk about joining the CAA? its not happening anytime soon if ever. thanks.

How about the SOCON instead?

[Bigsouthking]

Bottom line is, no matter who the coach is at Liberty you should win at least 65% of your games, I don't care if it is a non conference, conference, D-2, NAIA game, etc.... LU has great arena, great support, money, the ability to recruit juco's, transfers, etc. Also they are on TV almost every home game!! Also Liberty has a little more tradition than some may think or admit.

Lynchburg is a great city now, it's close to the beach, DC, Charlotte,etc

Don't give me the religion excuse and all that cause that can be a bonus in alot of ways!

Liberty should be having the same success as Winthrop, Siena, Butler, Gonzaga, Murray St, ETSU, Davidson, ODU. I know it's not easy but there is no excuse for not competeing at a high level.

[LUconn]

I think that's why we're always so ornery.

[Rocketfan]

Bottom line is, no matter who the coach is at Liberty you should win at least 65% of your games, I don't care if it is a non conference, conference, D-2, NAIA game, etc.... LU has great arena, great support, money, the ability to recruit juco's, transfers, etc. Also they are on TV almost every home game!! Also Liberty has a little more tradition than some may think or admit.

Lynchburg is a great city now, it's close to the beach, DC, Charlotte,etc

Don't give me the religion excuse and all that cause that can be a bonus in alot of ways!

Liberty should be having the same success as Winthrop, Siena, Butler, Gonzaga, Murray St, ETSU, Davidson, ODU. I know it's not easy but there is no excuse for not competeing at a high level.

I agree with all those points except the Juco one...we seem to look for some transfers yes, but not junior college kids here recently.

[ATrain]

Can we please not talk about joining the CAA? its not happening anytime soon if ever. thanks.

How about the SOCON instead?

Coastal is the Big South school with wet dreams of joining the SoCon.