[NJLibertyboy]

I wasn't downplaying the Tourney. I was pretty tired when I wrote it, so if it came across that way, sorry. I was just saying that it's tougher to make the football tourney than the basketball tourney in the Big South. Rocco does not have the automatic bid to fall back on. I was commenting on people who compared Dunton's return to this campus to Rocco's arrival.

Sorry.

[PAmedic]

you're dead on, JERSEY BOY

rednecks



(yes, slow morning at work so I've resorted to instigating on here)

[Hold My Own]

no problem

if anything they'll do more auto's with maybe even more play in games or something...because right now Mid Majors have all the sex appeal mostly b/c that's the only place a true Cinderella can come from

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

PS this is still a football campus which is why you have more fans... but basketball is still I-A and not I-AA... not to downplay football cause they are doing great, but cmonnnnn mannnnn

OH YOU DON'T EVEN WANT TO START THAT DICUSSION DO YOU?

Football Campus, Told you so haha

[PAmedic]

[Ed Dantes]

PS this is still a football campus which is why you have more fans... but basketball is still I-A and not I-AA... not to downplay football cause they are doing great, but cmonnnnn mannnnn

OH YOU DON'T EVEN WANT TO START THAT DICUSSION DO YOU?

Football Campus, Told you so haha

Any school that forces its students to sit down and be quiet during a game doesn't deserve to be an ANYTHING campus.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

OH YOU DON'T EVEN WANT TO START THAT DICUSSION DO YOU?

Football Campus, Told you so haha

Any school that forces its students to sit down and be quiet during a game doesn't deserve to be an ANYTHING campus.

2 points-Ed
OUCH

[paradox]

Let's end the championship sub-division 1AAAA argument with this: it you don't make the playoffs then usually means that your team is not very good.

If teams like Coastal can get in but we can't, then we must suck!

Also, who in their right mind would compare football attendance to basketball? Football stadiums can max out around 80K, whereas basketball arenas max out around 20K. Therefore, the 8500K that attended LU's '04 championship game far exceeds any 14K game as far as attendance ratio is concerned. The '04 basketball game would be equivalent to approximately 35K for football. So, in the correct context, the top attending football game achieved about half of what the '04 basketball championship game achieved.

[SuperJon]

You proved yourself stupid right there.

8500 in the Vines is 101% capacity.

14,000 in Williams is 121% capacity.

I think it's easy to tell which is better.

Just shut up. Go away. Please.

[paradox]

You proved yourself stupid right there.

8500 in the Vines is 101% capacity.

14,000 in Williams is 121% capacity.

I think it's easy to tell which is better.

Just shut up. Go away. Please.

What matters is proportion not capacity.

10K attending a college baskeball game is a solid crowd. 40K would be respectable for football.

What if your capacity was only 6K for football and you had 8K?

Do you still think that you have an argument here?

[SuperJon]

You can only fill up what you have. If we had a 12,000 seat arena, along with a 12,000 seat stadium, in your whacked up world averaging 4000 in the arena would be better than averaging 11,500 in the stadium.

[paradox]

Tally:

I read your lengthy resonse, but I can't really address too much of it because you are obvisously misinformed regarding the West Coast conference and you make false assumptions about the '04 BSC squad because the only thing that you know about them is their conference record which is misleading unless you actually know some thing about that team.

[paradox]

You can only fill up what you have. If we had a 12,000 seat arena, along with a 12,000 seat stadium, in your whacked up world averaging 4000 in the arena would be better than averaging 11,500 in the stadium.

Dude, you have no argument here. If LU had available 20K seats , they never would have filled them, let alone 40K

[Cider Jim]

SJ & DOX arguing stats & percentages: you are both making my head hurt!

[SuperJon]

We averaged right at capacity with a 6-5 team, and that includes a home opener during a monsoon. Shutup.

[WinthropEagleFan]

I don't know what it has to do with the new coach's salary, but the talk about LU's championship season and Birmingham-Southern has some mistakes in it. LU and BSC tied for the regular season conference title @ 12-4. If BSC was eligible for the tourney, LU would've still had the #1 seed due to the tiebreaker (Birmingham-Southern lost to #3 High Point, Liberty did not)....Nobody knows what would've happened if BSC was eligible, but we do know that Liberty did win the title that year. I don't see why there needs to be any astericks or anything else. Everyone knew that Birmingham-Southern was ineligible that year...The Flames deserved that title and were the best team in the league that year.

[paradox]

It was a good turnaround year compared to the Karcher years. But it's still very limited as long as it's championship-sub.

Until we get a home playoff game on ESPN with at least 20K, including both seats and lawn, it does not compare to the '04 Big South championship game, televised on ESPN, with over 8500K in attendance

[paradox]

It was a good turnaround year compared to the Karcher years. But it's still very limited as long as it's championship-sub.

Until we get a home playoff game on ESPN with at least 20K, including both seats and lawn, it does not compare to the '04 Big South championship game, televised on ESPN, with over 8500K in attendance

This is a response to Super Jon

[paradox]

I don't know what it has to do with the new coach's salary, but the talk about LU's championship season and Birmingham-Southern has some mistakes in it. LU and BSC tied for the regular season conference title @ 12-4. If BSC was eligible for the tourney, LU would've still had the #1 seed due to the tiebreaker (Birmingham-Southern lost to #3 High Point, Liberty did not)....Nobody knows what would've happened if BSC was eligible, but we do know that Liberty did win the title that year. I don't see why there needs to be any astericks or anything else. Everyone knew that Birmingham-Southern was ineligible that year...The Flames deserved that title and were the best team in the league that year.

Yes, and any reasonable person would agree, especially an LU fan, who should understandably cherish that year. But many don't because many on this site have such a deep-seated hatred for the former coach that they can't think clearly.

By the way, good luck in the tourney. I think that this is going to be your year to win a couple and advance to the sweet-sixteen!

[El Scorcho]

But many don't because many on this site have such a deep-seated hatred for the former coach that they can't think clearly.

To the contrary, I have no feelings for the man other than a hope to completely forget about him for a while. You make that impossible.

[TallyW]

Paradox... are you in High School? You are coming across pretty lame on this thread. Your argument with SJ is downright silly.

I have no problem with RD... I'm just calling it like I see it... I'm a HUGE fan of all things LU and I sat in the front row about 10 feet from Scar and about 3 feet from JB when we lost the VMI game. I cheered for Dunton and our team like crazy... What I've shared about RD's tenure is observation... not any disapproval of RD as a man or a coach... the facts are the facts... When we did get a winning season... we had a team that was brand new to the conference sidelined and still had 1 win more than we did and we had 6 extra games to play AND that team ended up higher in the RPI AFTER we won the tourney... That says something to me when a team can't play in your tourney... you get 3 wins in your tourney but they still sit higher in the poles. Not to mention the fact that this is what everyone points to as a way of saying RD should have stayed... At some point we have to quit saying "wait until next year". When you recruit players and they leave... that's something to be held accountable for... I sincerely wish the best for RD... I just think it's lame to argue that he somehow was treated poorly. Let it go...it didn't work out... everyone here knows that... we've all screwed something up along the way... we've all been places where the chemistry just didn't work out... it's okay to move on.


Paradox, your argument over attendance is just dumb honestly. You make comparisons using figures that LU's stadium doesn't even hold.... Stick with what we have. What we have is an exploding student population. What we have is 14k coming out for football and (I'm guessing) 3-4K coming out for Bball. I don't care how many ways you try to slice those numbers... people aren't excited about the program. A new coach will get fans in the seats... Fans mean advertising revenue... fans mean a home court advantage... fans mean school spirit... fans mean something for the citizens of l'burg to do... enthusiasm and winning brings in the fans.... One game that you keep referencing doesn't do it.

I was there in the late 90's when Jerry crowd surfed and vines was packed every game... It has gotten very mild... When Vines is half full for a tourney game at home against a team from right up the road... that's bad. Your arguments about the comparisons are lame.

[WWJFD]

Usually when a thread is longer than 200 words, I really do not read it. I saw some stuff on attendance and all that. I was talking to a friend who lives in a city that has a D 1 hoop team. For years, they were average at best. The team was lucky to fill half the stands. The coach was well liked, he reached out to the community, but the bottom line was, they were not winning. Suddenly, one year they pulled off an early season upset against a team no one felt they could beat. That gave the fans a spark. Conference play started and they won like 6 or 7 in a row. The next thing you know the seats were filling. 2 years later, they made in the field of 64 and now their tickets are a hot item. People can come on the board and say what they think. To be realistic, you could bring in a big name coach, but if the team does not win, the fans will still not come. The coach will not sell the tickets, it is the product he puts on the floor. WINS=FANS. Simple math.

[Cider Jim]

WWJFD, to quote JF himself at the end of the Karcher area, "Fans don't come out to watch football; they come out to watch winning football." The same certainly holds true for basketball.
I don't want to but we used to pack out the Vines Center when we were winning in the JM era and the one year with RD. That's why, if Sherard can keep us winning games, I think our fans would be excited about coming out and seeing our team play. If Sherard has been an assistant at UVa last year instead of LU, I think JB would be looking at him much more seriously, but right now it seems he still has the RD-albatross around his neck (aka, guilty by association), which is too bad.

[PAmedic]

good point WWJFD

and I believe SCAR has been saying that for, oh- about 2 yrs now

[TallyW]

WWJFD... I'm not sure that you said much different than what is being said here already... no one is saying "Big Name vs. Winning"... Everyone is saying that Winning must come... and no one is saying we have to have a 'big name'. I didn't know who Rocco was until we hired him... but I will say we should be looking for someone who has seen the promised land... That's why the argument is to get an Assistant or former head of a much bigger program. Yes wins make things happen... eventually... but a coach coming from a reputable place with a new perspective gives a program the push it needs to get things moving...