[BJWilliams]

You do know that the students dont have to pay right? (at least per game...their tickets are covered by the activity fee I think)

[Steffattack]

The students are not the problem. As has been stated many times here, winning puts butts in the seats. The students have shown great interest in spurts when the team has been at least semi-competitive. The vines was doing very well when Curry was here and the team was competitive.

The solution seems obvious to me... Fire Layer.

[jmdickens]

You do know that the students dont have to pay right? (at least per game...their tickets are covered by the activity fee I think)

So they are paying for the games per se, regardless if they attend. Even if they're free, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China, BJ?

[ProudLUAlum]

There is nothing stampped on those kids foreheads that says "I am only a NAIA or D2 caliber player". Just like nothing is stamped on our kids that says they are D1....They are D1 because they got recruited by a D1 school. Do you really think Ethan Layer is better than guards at a top 25 NAIA or D2 school? If you do..you are kidding yourself. There are Christian kids playing for small Christian Colleges better than what we put out there.

Pretty sure Layer is a walk on. Aren't you the same guy who said Dale was an interim coach? Have you ever seen a Liberty basketball game?

I did not say Dale was an interim coach. Please get your facts straight...and I have seen plenty of LU basketball games.

[adam42381]

THEcommish is the one who said he was an interim coach.

https://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewto ... im#p413655

[flameslinger]

You do know that the students dont have to pay right? (at least per game...their tickets are covered by the activity fee I think)

Yes. My point is that everyone seems to agree that the quality of the product through the first 8 games is not worth the price of admission (whether it is free or face value of the ticket). Winning puts more butts (both young and old) in the seats. Winning in a rowdy and full arena helps land higher level recruits, but we need said recruits to help us win and put more butts in the seats, increasing the quality of the product on the floor and the total game environment. That is our catch 22 right now. We can throw around attendance numbers all day long, but in reality the way that this is (likely) ultimately going to be resolved is a new direction for the program. "New" will help garner excitement from recruits and fans. It is easier to sell "new" (hope and change ) than mediocre or poor. After saying all of that, I really hope Layer is able to right this ship soon and end up with a decent season.

[ProudLUAlum]

If things dont improve soon......the attendance at the games is going to look like the list of black NHL Hall of Famers.

[PAmedic]

If things dont improve soon......the attendance at the games is going to look like the list of black NHL Hall of Famers.

really? c'mon man

[jmdickens]

If things dont improve soon......the attendance at the games is going to look like the list of black NHL Hall of Famers.

really? c'mon man

[flamesfan30]

nobody goes to the games because they are boring.

[GillsHill2013]

nobody goes to the games because they are boring.

A game of catan is more interesting than those games

[flamesfan30]

^haha yes. good times bro i think that might be what i miss most from last year.

[Bigsouthking]

Attendance will only get better once the team produces. I am debating you BIGSOUTHKING. Look at

Virginia Tech's attendance this season. Cassell Coliseum's capacity is 9,847
ETSU 6,632
URI 6,270
VMI 6,883
APP St 7,094
IOWA 5,647
OK St 7,552

Other than Iowa, there capacity has been 2/3's full and it appears to be moving upward because the team is winning. Who would of thought!!!

Anyone else want to look up another team to laugh at BSK for blaming students?

jmDICK --

I never blamed the students there big guy -- read my post I said students make up half the crowd and there are NO SEASON Ticket holders -- can you not read??
LU has NO OLD people in cushion seats!!! Figure it out, read the post. when I address PROTOTYPE
So what VT has 2/3 full theu 6 games, you are proving my point, they are undefeated and the place still has empty seats!!!! DUMB DUMB DUMB --
someone with intelligence talk to me!

[Chippy]

The "good news" (the other good news) is that the BSC conference may be the weakest in recent memory with no teams having a good year. Check out the state of the other teams in the conference. Looks like most if not all the coaches will be fired based on their team's performance to this point. Van der Pol (Januray return) and Burrus (sooner) will help with the substitution rotations and if we can get some of the guards shooting with a little more accuracy then we're in the hunt.

[prototype]

And with their bad losses and sub-par record....what are their attendance numbers?

ODU had trouble getting kids to games when they were good. They launched a whole PR campaign last year that was basically a guilt trip to get students to come.

They are 66th in the country and average 7,700 fans a game.

[prototype]

Why doesnt LU have season ticket holders? There are tons of LU Alum in the LBurg area. There are many Christian schools, about a thousand churches. I would say there is a pretty darn good base of support. So why wont folks attend games. How did ODU get seaon ticket holders to start with....Was it ONLY because they had a winning tradition?

Liberty has some. More than they ever have. Not sure how many, but I have 4 and know many others that have them.

[prototype]

OK - so we have a lot of problems with our basketball team right now and it doesn't look like it will change anytime soon. I don't see any white horses heading our way with a 6'10" 4 star prospect riding in.

Layer's not the issue!! JB is not the issue!! Our team being ridiculously white isn't the issue!! THE MAIN ISSUE OF WHY OUR PROGRAM IS SUCKING RIGHT NOW - -

The Student Body!

If we can get the students to show up for games - it will make the atmosphere better for the paying fans, make the atmosphere better for our players and POTENTIAL recruits. How can Layer attract the best talent and convince them to come play at Liberty, when they come to visit and we have 1,000 people there? Our students need to be a lot more loyal to their school and support Basketball, much like they support Football. Things have changed since I graduated, but back in the days - everyone went to the games and we only had like 2,000 students. Think how crazy the atmosphere would be if 50% of our students showed up now?

If the culture would change - we would have a completely different program!! How do we get them there? Need to have Jerry Jr. publicly layout the challenge and the vision for how they can help. Need to spend $2,000 per game and give away stuff every game (ipods, ipads, xbox, book coupons, etc...). Maybe a full year attendance goal for the students for a big prize? If we average 5,000 students - a day off, 7,500 students - 2 days off... Free concert by a big time group? I'm sure Toby Mac would be willing to jump on board of presented the idea.

Why a different thread? Because all the others are about what admin is doing wrong and it's time we look ourselves in the mirror and see what the true reason is - The support for our team SUCKS!!! We are a bunch of bandwagon fans - me included!!

Same people use the LaHaye, SnowFlex, Ice Arena, Intramural fields for free and they find the time to do that. Not saying it's an obligation - but I wish students would show pride for their school despite wins/loses. Give it a shot and see if it would help. Winning would help, but we need to create an atmosphere Layer can sell to big time athletes.

Bring your ideas on how we get the flame back to Furnace!!!

This is retarded. Seriously, the student body is the problem? I'm so sick of hearing people talk about how the students should do more, almost as if it's an obligation for students to attend games. You are lucky if one student shows up to a game, if they stay for the whole thing, you should be overwhelmingly grateful. Also, this isn't even close to the problem. VMI, Charleston Southern, High Point and most of the Big South probably won't even come close to our numbers yet they'll beat us consistently. Athletics does a fantastic job of getting students to games and our students do a fantastic job of showing up. However, if you honestly think these students have any obligation outside of God, family and school while they're here, you've gone too far.

[jmdickens]

jmDICK --

I never blamed the students there big guy -- read my post I said students make up half the crowd and there are NO SEASON Ticket holders -- can you not read??
LU has NO OLD people in cushion seats!!! Figure it out, read the post. when I address PROTOTYPE
So what VT has 2/3 full theu 6 games, you are proving my point, they are undefeated and the place still has empty seats!!!! DUMB DUMB DUMB --
someone with intelligence talk to me!

First, you're backtracking, Your second post on this thread was about the students being the majority of fans. If students are the majority of the fans, then they're in fact, season ticket holders, because they pay for the tickets through their activity fee.

Vtech had horrible attendance last season and has been improving this season as a result of their wins. Which another one of your post

no one goes to UVA/Tech on regualr basis except when they play Duke/UNC or they are winning.

Now you are saying it is proving your point when they are winning and attendance is down. That is like calling heads or tails on a coin flip and bragging that you chose the correct outcome. I assume you attended Radford University or Lynchburg College with this type of thinking and lack of cognitive ability.

[Bigsouthking]

I can't believe I'm arguing with JMDickens ---

Can you not read? Do you see the word EXCEPT in my post?

Old people are season ticket holders, most smart people don't consider students "season ticket holders" --- they are considered students....

Your out in left field my friend and obviously there isn't any hope.

[jmdickens]

I can't believe I'm arguing with JMDickens ---

Can you not read? Do you see the word EXCEPT in my post?

Old people are season ticket holders, most smart people don't consider students "season ticket holders" --- they are considered students....

Your out in left field my friend and obviously there isn't any hope.

I consider season ticket holders to be people who pay for tickets, and every resident student pays for tickets in the form of their activity fee. Therefore, season ticket holders

But how abt you address the part where you stated that people don't go see TEch unless they win. Followed by how that proves your point when their attendance is down and that is the exact opposite of your point. It is sad that you are too stupid or ignorant to notice the glaring contradiction.

[FlamesBeBallin]

You guys are full of it if you truly think the students are the reason our team is playing so poorly. Yes there could be more energy in our fan base as a whole (including football, "cough, baptist side, cough"). BUT it is absolutely impossible to get fired up about a team that has played horrendous basketball. As someone who has stood for every home game this season, our student body does suck when it comes to getting hyped for basketball season. But the blame is far from on us as students. JUST WIN!!!

You better believe my legs are retiring tonight and I am sitting my butt in that chair until there is something to get excited about. The coaching of this team is nothing but horrendous. Steffattack was right on the money....Fire Layer.

[prototype]

My last post didn't go through for some reason. I'm not saying this is all the students fault - I'm just saying that it would help build momentum if we can control the things we can - and right now - we can make the atmosphere better and that will help the players perform, the coaching staff attract better players and show the administration that the students are behind the basketball program. I think it's the least they can do for all that is provided to them at no cost - Lahaye, Ice Arena, indoor Soccer, SnowFlex, trail system, etc... I know all the students pay for tuition - I put myself through Liberty - I know. But, I think Liberty should be different!! I think Liberty students should try and elevate our school to being the best in the Country and creating some school pride only will help that. Go read about the New Mexico Women's Program and tell me how their "Pack the Pit" doesn't make their program better? Their team isn't good every year, but the students take pride in attending and supporting their school - And the Nation notices!!!

And to answer the Baptist Side argument. Those people are paying for their tickets. LU would sell more if people could pay to have their families go to games that were loud and fun, no matter who we were playing and what the score is. The students have to set that tone and then the paying fans will come.

[BJWilliams]

It all plays a part in the equation FBB. If the coaching is good, the team wins. When the team wins, youll get people to come out. When people come out, you make more money and can put it into marketing (in addition to whatever is allocated from the athletic budget).

[prototype]

It all plays a part in the equation FBB. If the coaching is good, the team wins. When the team wins, youll get people to come out. When people come out, you make more money and can put it into marketing (in addition to whatever is allocated from the athletic budget).

But you can't put this all on Layer either. What does he have to sell? Since he has been here, attendance has been what 1,000 people a game? How can he bring someone talented in here and show the vision? Layer works hard - he's just coaching a D2 school with a D1 schedule... Would you want to play here? Now if a recruit came and saw 7,000 fans not sitting on their hands when we are playing a bad 4-6 team - he knows he might be able to create even more excitement and bring LU to that next level.

[BJWilliams]

Im not putting it all on Layer proto...Im saying that everything plays a part, including the coach. The coaching, the play, the marketing, the press coverage, etc...ALL plays a part. Some things may play a smaller part than others, but they still are an ingredient in the recipe.