[LCA&LU Mom]

I'm just SO thankful that you gave yourself 24 hours to calm down, can't imagine what that post would have been like otherwise. Good call.

[kdinva]

"TylerBaker"; you should get a Pulitzer for that post! And "jinxy" spoke the truth about Coach Rocco. Don't know why he has more than 40 players on his roster; they'll never play, even in one-sided games (they didn't that November day in 2007). Duggar getting his "payback"? The number of times VMI FB and BB has been hammered in the past 20 years; VMI has dozens of games to go (similar to Feb. 25) before the ledger is even. What was VMI supposed to do the final 12 minutes on Feb. 25: play 3 on 5?

LU hoops is one more lead guard and one 6'8", 235# banger from being the Conf. favorite in 2010, IMO.

[thepostman]

wow...did anybody read that whole thing? maybe you will be selling a cliffnotes version tbgbg..haha

[Sly Fox]

Clearly the Publicist still needs a few more days to decompress.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your views on our coach and AD but since you generally stayed on topic in your rants it does meet our standards. Suffice it to say no one is pleased with Thursday's loss and that certainly includes those at the heart of your diatribe. You fail to mention that while the majority of the players are McKay recruits they were nearly all freshmen and three of his guys weren't on the floor due to medical redshirt and transfer. Will the expectations rise this coming year despite the loss of Anthony? Absolutely. Did we exceed most of our expectations this season in light of the massive player turnover and reliance on true freshmen? Absolutely. Did your favorite player blossom under Coach McKay and his staff after two years in the wounded wilderness? Absolutely.

[grm]

O.K. I officially & publicly apologize for ever questioning whether FF tolerates opposing viewpoints.
Whether tbgtbg's comments make any sense whatsoever or not, I can never say that this is not an open forum.

[ToTheLeft]

O.K. I officially & publicly apologize for ever questioning whether FF tolerates opposing viewpoints.
Whether tbgtbg's comments make any sense whatsoever or not, I can never say that this is not an open forum.

We accept his opposing views because he's here for the wins and losses. We hate CMII and inthebeginning's bullcrap because they only show up for losses.

TBGBGB is paying his way to road games to support the team. He is one of the most passionate fans, and probably the smartest basketball mind of any of our fans (except for SCAR). And he does have a bit of a grudge against the current administration that does cloud his vision on some things, but he is usually able to take a step back and give props where they are due.

The same can't be said for some of the other people around here. TBGBG's only desire is for his team to win. Even if his favorite coach isnt here anymore or if his favorite AD isn't chillin' in Hancock. He wants the team, and his classmates and school, to win. And that's more respectable than enjoying the failures of a coach that didn't do a single thing to you, like CMII and ITB do.

[Cider Jim]

wow...did anybody read that whole thing?

I actually had to copy & paste it into a Word document and change it to double space before I can read it.

Sly, your "wounded wilderness" is probably the most poetic thing I'ver ever read on this board.

I personally thought having Spencer at the point and Jesse as a forward was a brillant move on coach's part: that way, Jesse wouldn't have all the wear and tear on his body with his spin moves in the lane, but it allowed him to get the ball down low and then kick it back out to whoever was open for a 3-point shot.
I'm a big fan of McKay, and would bet the farm he gets us to the BSC finals next year.

[jcmanson]

We accept his opposing views because he's here for the wins and losses.

'nuff said

["R" i "]

I admire you being here for the wins and losses.

Our press break needed some work, We didnt attack the basket in the second half (especially after breaking the press), and for the first time in his era, I think that some of this loss can be attributed to being out coached.

But, I would never want to re live what we had going on here at Liberty a few years ago.

TBGBG, How can you talk about running off players and messing them over. Isnt this what your favorite was famous for. I dont want to list them all so I will just give a few

Doug Stewart.... though he wasnt that good
Evan Risher....... could have been better if coach wasnt on his case all the time
David Dees....... no idea on this one
Jeremy Moncoux....... he wasn't very good

It sounds like to me that there is a step that you, nor your old buddy understood when it comes to college basketball. BUILDING. The best way to have a great team is to BUILD. Not get JUCO transfers ie. Larry Franklin,Damien, Alex, on and on and on............... But to recruit freshmen.

We are not about the quick fix any more, we are about BUILDING a program, and that takes time and patience.

[olldflame]

I thought Sly's response was measured and accurate. The only thing I would clarify is that in fact because of Jeremy's injury EVERY MINUTE played by a McKay recruit this year was played by a Freshman, and after Jesse reinjured his ankle and went to the bench after 9 minutes, there were actually 4 players unavailable. Of the 4 non-McKay recruits who played this year, 2 were not recruited at all, but came into the program as walkons, and one only played about half the year due to injury.

TBGBG, I'm not going to take the time to go back and see if you made any predictions for this year's team or what they were, but I would be surprised if they were not exceeded, as were most of ours. It is true that the conventional expectation for an incoming coach is that they should succeed when they have their own recruits in place. It is NOT true that championships are expected when all of those recruits are Freshmen.

[Sly Fox]

If you look back at the history of this site (and the Firehouse before it) you will see a pattern of allowing dissenting opinions to be voiced as long as they maintain a certain decorum. We do not tolerate personal attacks in either direction. TBGBG stuck to voicing his opinion of particular actions and not the character of either Coach McKay or the AD. As such, they are welcome on the board even though they may be very unpopular. I went to great pains to try and maintain fairness throughout the Karcher/Dunton/Royer changes. All were good men who made great sacrifices for the university and as such deserved to have their motives and personal lives protected. And to this day, I do my best to keep discussions based specifically on performance and coaching philosophies. I cringe when I read derogatory shots taken at Coach Dunton just as much as Coach McKay. And I agree with LUconn's sentiment that constant blasts of the current regime by those still bitter about how the changes were made has done a great deal of damage to Coach Dunton. But we do our best to allow the free flow of discussion on this site. Do I personally wish everyone would center the energies on building on the foundations of Meyer/Dunton to achieve even greater heights under Coach McKay? Absolutely. But I know that it is impossible to have everyone on here agree all the time. And if they did, it would get pretty boring in a hurry.

And CJ, I rightly assumed you would be the one to appreciate the rhetoric. Gracias.

[grm]

Man, I thought the Forum would erupt over this post, and it hasn't... so in addition to giving some props to the moderators for their tolerance, I must also give a bunch to you guys who have allowed tbgtbg to say his piece, giving him his due for being a fan that wants LU to succeed.

I'm extremely impressed with you guys on this.

[jcmanson]

Man, I thought the Forum would erupt over this post, and it hasn't... so in addition to giving some props to the moderators for their tolerance, I must also give a bunch to you guys who have allowed tbgtbg to say his piece, giving him his due for being a fan that wants LU to succeed.

I'm extremely impressed with you guys on this.

If you go back and look, we typically only get upset over people who ONLY come on here after losses or when things aren't going well. That's uncalled for. That's not a true fan.

[BJWilliams]

As has been said, TBGBG is the kind of guy that CMII and ITB and CM and assorted others are not and at this point I dont think ever will be. Ive been down on the sidelines with him and SJ and TTL and a lot of the other LUnatics during basketball season and I can definitely agree that he is one of the more passionate fans Ive seen (and Ive seen a lot in my years), but at the same time, He isnt what one would call a "Kool-Aid drinker". If CMII and ITB and their ilk acted more like TBGBG then we wouldnt have a problem with them being here

[Sly Fox]

[quote=""R" i ""]I admire you being here for the wins and losses.

Our press break needed some work, We didnt attack the basket in the second half (especially after breaking the press), and for the first time in his era, I think that some of this loss can be attributed to being out coached.

But, I would never want to re live what we had going on here at Liberty a few years ago.

TBGBG, How can you talk about running off players and messing them over. Isnt this what your favorite was famous for. I dont want to list them all so I will just give a few

Doug Stewart.... though he wasnt that good
Evan Risher....... could have been better if coach wasnt on his case all the time
David Dees....... no idea on this one
Jeremy Moncoux....... he wasn't very good

It sounds like to me that there is a step that you, nor your old buddy understood when it comes to college basketball. BUILDING. The best way to have a great team is to BUILD. Not get JUCO transfers ie. Larry Franklin,Damien, Alex, on and on and on............... But to recruit freshmen.

We are not about the quick fix any more, we are about BUILDING a program, and that takes time and patience.[/quote]

For the record, I felt this was pushing the limits as much as TBGBG. Stick to the facts, please.

And grm, you have always acted in the manner we appreciate despite your obvious allegiances. That is why you have earned the respect of the board. No one would ever accuse you of being a Koolaid man but you are supportive of the school and program in spite of past events. I wish more posters could follow suit.

[olldflame]

Is "this guy is a joke" considered a personal attack?

[flames1971]

LOL

yall suck

guess your not as good as you thought

unfinished business next year in bball as well

Last edited by coastalfan1 on Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total

You actually edited that? What could you possibly have edited there? Did you not spell LOL correctly?

haha

i didnt have google spell check on so i re edited it and correct one word it thought was bad but really wasnt

dont be to hard on my i only go to ccu

Shows how much you guys learn at Coastal

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

Clearly the Publicist still needs a few more days to decompress.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your views on our coach and AD but since you generally stayed on topic in your rants it does meet our standards. Suffice it to say no one is pleased with Thursday's loss and that certainly includes those at the heart of your diatribe. You fail to mention that while the majority of the players are McKay recruits they were nearly all freshmen and three of his guys weren't on the floor due to medical redshirt and transfer. Will the expectations rise this coming year despite the loss of Anthony? Absolutely. Did we exceed most of our expectations this season in light of the massive player turnover and reliance on true freshmen? Absolutely. Did your favorite player blossom under Coach McKay and his staff after two years in the wounded wilderness? Absolutely.

I am going to go through and try to answer as many questions as were posted best i can now, but to be honest i dont want to deal with it anymore after that and I have to pack for FL But Not just to this post but to all of them I think its funny in the last 8 hours ive been questioned more than the man that lost us the championship.

Did he really blossom though? I dont see anything different. And SLY im cool with saying that they are just freshman and its tough, cause it is... but next year we will say its cause we dont have smitty, the next year will be no ohman and baker. Bottom line is he didnt TRY... If you dont know what youre doing you should at least TRY.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

[quote=""R" i ""]I admire you being here for the wins and losses.

Our press break needed some work, We didnt attack the basket in the second half (especially after breaking the press), and for the first time in his era, I think that some of this loss can be attributed to being out coached.

But, I would never want to re live what we had going on here at Liberty a few years ago.

TBGBG, How can you talk about running off players and messing them over. Isnt this what your favorite was famous for. I dont want to list them all so I will just give a few

Doug Stewart.... though he wasnt that good
Evan Risher....... could have been better if coach wasnt on his case all the time
David Dees....... no idea on this one
Jeremy Moncoux....... he wasn't very good

It sounds like to me that there is a step that you, nor your old buddy understood when it comes to college basketball. BUILDING. The best way to have a great team is to BUILD. Not get JUCO transfers ie. Larry Franklin,Damien, Alex, on and on and on............... But to recruit freshmen.

We are not about the quick fix any more, we are about BUILDING a program, and that takes time and patience.[/quote]


All I am going to say to this is AFTER ONLY 1 YEAR we lost BJ... who is better to this team than anyone on that last... and LB Ran Dees off, not RD. Franklin is better than half the guys on our current roster, Damien... ummm... I mean he helped sometimes it was just a tough transition for him, and ACE was amazing and the last 2 years could be argued as the best big man in the Big South.
So your list of players is followed by wasnt good but if you say BJ wasnt good your koolaid is too thick and these JUCO guys were good... sometimes you will have a few that dont pan out, but not in the list your provided.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

I thought Sly's response was measured and accurate. The only thing I would clarify is that in fact because of Jeremy's injury EVERY MINUTE played by a McKay recruit this year was played by a Freshman, and after Jesse reinjured his ankle and went to the bench after 9 minutes, there were actually 4 players unavailable. Of the 4 non-McKay recruits who played this year, 2 were not recruited at all, but came into the program as walkons, and one only played about half the year due to injury.

TBGBG, I'm not going to take the time to go back and see if you made any predictions for this year's team or what they were, but I would be surprised if they were not exceeded, as were most of ours. It is true that the conventional expectation for an incoming coach is that they should succeed when they have their own recruits in place. It is NOT true that championships are expected when all of those recruits are Freshmen.

I dont remember my prediction either, but I know this exceeded what I thought would happen, but OldFlame I think you missed the point. What I am saying is everyone had low expectations because they were so young, but we got to see that they WERE GOOD and have the ability to win and the way we lost because a lack of a coach. If we left it all on the floor and just lost its different.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

Is "this guy is a joke" considered a personal attack?

No. Its hope... I hope hes joking, I really do. Other than that just another fact that makes people uncomfortable.

[ToTheLeft]

I think you're overstating RMK's ability to get these guys to play.

I don't think our players not playing hard, or not executing properly, is entirely RMK's fault.

And as far as the other reasons I know you have for your displeasure with the VMI game, honestly, I can understand why they did what they did. In retrospect, it didn't work. But you're basing this too much on the result...

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

Other than that Thank the rest of you for realizing that Im not the enemy and I have been through the wins and the losses.

And to be put in the same list as SCAR is an honor.

[jcmanson]

We did get outcoached on Thursday night, and I would think McKay would be the first to admit that. We came out and took the lead by forcing them how to play the way we wanted to. In the 2nd half Duggar realized we were down our best ball handler and decided to force us to work against the full court press. We never adjusted after that.

[olldflame]

I thought Sly's response was measured and accurate. The only thing I would clarify is that in fact because of Jeremy's injury EVERY MINUTE played by a McKay recruit this year was played by a Freshman, and after Jesse reinjured his ankle and went to the bench after 9 minutes, there were actually 4 players unavailable. Of the 4 non-McKay recruits who played this year, 2 were not recruited at all, but came into the program as walkons, and one only played about half the year due to injury.

TBGBG, I'm not going to take the time to go back and see if you made any predictions for this year's team or what they were, but I would be surprised if they were not exceeded, as were most of ours. It is true that the conventional expectation for an incoming coach is that they should succeed when they have their own recruits in place. It is NOT true that championships are expected when all of those recruits are Freshmen.

I dont remember my prediction either, but I know this exceeded what I thought would happen, but OldFlame I think you missed the point. What I am saying is everyone had low expectations because they were so young, but we got to see that they WERE GOOD and have the ability to win and the way we lost because a lack of a coach. If we left it all on the floor and just lost its different.

If we acknowledge that we were outcoached Thursday night, let's not forget RMK is not the first LU coach Dugger has outsmarted in the conference tournament. You are blaming him for the loss to VMI because he is not a good enough coach, and "these guys are GOOD" Let's not forget that recruiting is probably the most important role for any college coach, and the freshman class that is mainly responsible for making this year exciting and leading us to believe we may be able to win it this year is here because of Richie McKay. They ARE good, but they ARE Freshmen, and it's simply not realistic to say that because they have talent and potential that it's all the fault of poor coaching that we didn't win a championship.