[Purple Haize]

While I appreciate the fact that you agree with me, which you always should cause I'm awesome that way, you may have under cut your own argument. Since we are losing so many players to begin with NOW would be the time to make a change. You can't bank on recruits and any head coaching change is going to cause a shake up regardless. So why not bring a new person in now when there are a lot of scholarships that will be available? If the signees want to de-commit that just frees up more scholarships for the new coach to bring their players in and get the program running their way faster. Other wise you waste a couple of years cycling the old coaches players out and the new ones in.
I do agree with you as well that I think Layer will be back.

[olldflame]

But isn't it true that in the world of 21st century recruiting most of the good players are signed in November? I'm not talking about the 5 star blue chippers who have everyone after them and either genuinely struggle making a decision or just enjoy the attention and wait til the last minute. I'm pretty sure the big majority of solid D1 HS recruits at our level sign during the early period and would not be available for a coach taking over the reins in March to fill all those schollies. We also happen to have the inside scoop that the player who may be the prize plum of those early signees in fact chose LU specifically because of coach Layer. That may not rule out his still being a Flame if we made a change, but it certainly makes it less likely.

[Lburglifer]

As the great sports psychologist Albert Einstein quoted, "Insanity: to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results."

[BJWilliams]

So pretty much your life mantra then? Youve been the this board's version of insanity since He Who Shall Not Be Named left

[Purple Haize]

But isn't it true that in the world of 21st century recruiting most of the good players are signed in November? I'm not talking about the 5 star blue chippers who have everyone after them and either genuinely struggle making a decision or just enjoy the attention and wait til the last minute. I'm pretty sure the big majority of solid D1 HS recruits at our level sign during the early period and would not be available for a coach taking over the reins in March to fill all those schollies. We also happen to have the inside scoop that the player who may be the prize plum of those early signees in fact chose LU specifically because of coach Layer. That may not rule out his still being a Flame if we made a change, but it certainly makes it less likely.

There are always sleepers and a JUCO or 2 The point being when/if a new coach comes in its going to be a rebuilding year. You know some recruits will ask for their release, some current players will transfer and some won't be renewed. Therefore, if you make a move this year and take your expected lumps, you are giving the new coach more open slots to move his players in to. In this scenario, it would have been ideal to have done it last year and the same theory could hold for the current staff.
Changing coaches is never easy and I hope we don't have to.

[thepostman]

As the great sports psychologist Albert Einstein quoted, "Insanity: to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results."

Coming from the guy that wants to go backwards and not forward and try something new. I actually would like to see something new and different. You would like to go back to the dark ages.

[Purple Haize]

As the great sports psychologist Albert Einstein quoted, "Insanity: to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results."

Coming from the guy that wants to go backwards and not forward and try something new. I actually would like to see something new and different. You would like to go back to the dark ages.

See I took this to mean he was refuting his previous statements and now looking for another solution. But I see where you are coming from.

[Lburglifer]

As the great sports psychologist Albert Einstein quoted, "Insanity: to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results."

Coming from the guy that wants to go backwards and not forward and try something new. I actually would like to see something new and different. You would like to go back to the dark ages.

I would line way up my way any day with what we are dealing with. I am amazed how the bright lights of campus improvements (which are great) blind you to the abject failure of this administration's ability to produce performance & fan improvement. The only things looking back to the dark ages is our ability to compete. What did Lang write first time in 38 years of back to back 20 loss seasons and you call winning at a level to be at Top not Bottom of BSC the dark ages. Get Real.

[olldflame]

6 scholarships would be a lot to fill with sleepers and JUCOs Purple, especially if you want them to be "Liberty compatable".

[Purple Haize]

6 scholarships would be a lot to fill with sleepers and JUCOs Purple, especially if you want them to be "Liberty compatable".

I agree but I guess I wasn't being clear. You don't HAVE to fill those 6 and of was coming in I'm not sure I would. If you don't fill them this year you can fill them next year when you have a clearer picture of your needs and the Conference

[Purple Haize]

As the great sports psychologist Albert Einstein quoted, "Insanity: to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results."

Coming from the guy that wants to go backwards and not forward and try something new. I actually would like to see something new and different. You would like to go back to the dark ages.

I would line way up my way any day with what we are dealing with. I am amazed how the bright lights of campus improvements (which are great) blind you to the abject failure of this administration's ability to produce performance & fan improvement. The only things looking back to the dark ages is our ability to compete. What did Lang write first time in 38 years of back to back 20 loss seasons and you call winning at a level to be at Top not Bottom of BSC the dark ages. Get Real.

Then by that standard we should bring back Dale Gibson. He has a National Title and the talent he brought in still fill the record books. He also still holds the record for most wins in a season. Or how about bring back a coach who had several 20+ win seasons?

[thepostman]

As the great sports psychologist Albert Einstein quoted, "Insanity: to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results."

Coming from the guy that wants to go backwards and not forward and try something new. I actually would like to see something new and different. You would like to go back to the dark ages.

I would line way up my way any day with what we are dealing with. I am amazed how the bright lights of campus improvements (which are great) blind you to the abject failure of this administration's ability to produce performance & fan improvement. The only things looking back to the dark ages is our ability to compete. What did Lang write first time in 38 years of back to back 20 loss seasons and you call winning at a level to be at Top not Bottom of BSC the dark ages. Get Real.

I love how you ignore how I said I want something NEW. Which would mean I don't want the status quo. I also have no desire to go back in time to where going to class was optional and being a student wasn't important. I want to find that person, or people, who will get us to that point. Staying where we are is not the answer, but going back to a time that lacked off court discipline is not something I want either.

I know you will miss the part where I said I want something new and different, so I will look forward to how incredibly dumb you will look in your response.

[VAGolf]

So, question is, if we lose today, does Layer get fired? And if he's getting fired, when does that take place?

[jlread]

After that display of lack luster boring basketball they should fire him in Myrtle Beach and let him find his own ride home !!!!!!

[R i]

I voted we shouldnt fire him. The 4 reasons I think we should keep him around,

1 He won the BSC tournament last year
2 He fullfills all the extra Liberty caoching duties very well
3 Recruiting class looks good.
4 He had his hands tied when he was brought in by his head assistant coach at the time, JVP JCS and Twan were all his guys. Glad hes gone, and our assistant coaches are much much better than they have been since Richie left.

[VAGolf]

I voted we shouldnt fire him. The 4 reasons I think we should keep him around,

1 He won the BSC tournament last year
2 He fullfills all the extra Liberty caoching duties very well
3 Recruiting class looks good.
4 He had his hands tied when he was brought in by his head assistant coach at the time, JVP JCS and Twan were all his guys. Glad hes gone, and our assistant coaches are much much better than they have been since Richie left.

1. Any team can win a conference tournament. I would rather be relevant for 4 years and not win a championship, than be terrible for 4 years and win once.

2. Based on what? What extra Liberty coaching duties?

3. We've heard that same crap for years now. UVA football has had like 4 consecutive top 25 recruiting classes, they're still a bottom feeder.

4. That was 5 years AGO. McKay is gone. I'll buy that excuse for one or two seasons, but this is Layers 5th year. We should at LEAST be improving and competing.

[R i]

I was reffering to Eaker, Layers hands were tied from day one. He was going to be head coach, but was required to keep Eaker on staff as top assistant, so we could keep the palyers we had (which didnt work) and so we could get Eaker's recruits (who didnt pan out). Layer has brought in several good assistants that are showing lots of promise in recruiting. Id like to see Dale get a fair shake, knowing that he is a good fit at Liberty, and Eaker was dragging him down. Thats my opinion.

[ballcoach15]

After 5 years, we should be winning 20 games a season, not losing 20.

[Equinox]

Hire Al Skinner!!!!!!!!

[TDDance234]

Reading through this thread - I've learned one thing: we have some outrageous expectations.

Finding guys that can consistently average 15-20ppg in the Big South probably isn't going to happen.
Winning 20 games a year is a lofty goal. Outside of your top tier programs, there aren't many 'mid-major' teams that are going to pull that off.

We're a bottom-50 team.
I realize we should high expectations but we're fooling ourselves if we think we're at a place where we can start expecting 20-win seasons and NBA prospects.

[ballcoach15]

LU should be able to recruit a player who can average 15+ points a game and be a leader, and hit for 20-30 every now and then.

Radford can , VMI can, High Point can, even UNCA. Not sure about other BSC schools.

LU tries to get a lay up or shot in paint on most every possession. Get some guys who can score from outside to go with inside game. The best way to open up inside is score from outside. Get a player or 2 who can create their shot off the dribble .

[R i]

The ball coach has shed some light on the situation, as usual.

[VAGolf]

I wouldn't even argue that we should be winning 20 games year in and year out. But 20 win seasons shouldn't be rarer than 20 loss seasons. For the second straight year, we have lost 20 games.

My point is that we shouldn't be consistently at the bottom of the Big South. Layer has gone 75-97 as our coach, that is pathetic in my opinion.

And again, who cares about recruiting classes? Lots of terrible teams have great recruiting classes, lots of solid teams don't.

Eaker isn't the reasoning behind Dale Layer being atrocious. I wasn't a fan of Eaker either, but let's stop making up excuses for Layer. At some point, he has to be the one responsible for our success or lack-thereof.

It's time for him to go. We need to move on.

[Dr. Sheh]

Winning 20 games a year is a lofty goal. Outside of your top tier programs, there aren't many 'mid-major' teams that are going to pull that off.

We're a bottom-50 team.
I realize we should high expectations but we're fooling ourselves if we think we're at a place where we can start expecting 20-win seasons and NBA prospects.

We don't have to win 20 games every year, but let's start with not losing 20 games in back to back seasons. We didn't even accomplish that! That is not some ridiculous expectation in a very weak Big South Conference. I haven't looked it up, but what other programs have lost 20+ in the last two years in a row?

Let's get a winning overall record and big south record. And not be eliminated in the first round of the Big South tourney in 4 of 5 years. These are not outlandish expectations!!! I don't see us ever getting to the next level with the staff in place regardless of their great Christianity.

[BJWilliams]

Yes we know...Coach Layer should be fired, Jeff Barber should be fired and if the Board of Trustees/Regents can make it happen Jerry Jr should be fired...that seems to be the only thing that would make Sheh and VAGolf and LBL and whoever else wants to pile on happy right? (sarcasm dripping from this statement btw)