[jmdickens]

My question is: What do you have to do to get FIRED ? Not put on AL, .....FIRED !

Well, I remember AD did a lot for the players so they were happy enough to keep her dad around.

[jmdickens]

I know (and am chief among sinners in the say stupid stuff department).

You certainly don't have to tell us, we are reminded quite often when you post.

[LUconn]

It's not him.

[bballfan84]

My question is: What do you have to do to get FIRED ? Not put on AL, .....FIRED !

Well, I remember AD did a lot for the players so they were happy enough to keep her dad around.

haha wow...you quoted me on that but I didnt say that

[bballfan84]

It's not him.

its not ToC but doesnt mean its not Dunton

[LUconn]

Unless he's moved recently, it's not him either. I think it's feasible that you don't have to have been fired from LU basketball to be upset about the state that it's in.

[bballfan84]

Unless he's moved recently, it's not him either. I think it's feasible that you don't have to have been fired from LU basketball to be upset about the state that it's in.

I wasnt insinuating that it just seemed pretty coincidental to me...

[El Scorcho]

It's not him.

This is correct.

[ProudLUAlum]

Are you saying this is a stupid post simply because you do not have a good answer for it.

Obviously, we would not put Jerrry Sundusky on AL, he would be fired. The point is that we obviously have some line where grace stops and punishment starts.

What if it would have been illegal drugs instead of perscriptions? What if he was distributing?

At some point, you would say "fire him". I am just wondering where that point is and how you justify it......if your argument is that "we all sin"...

It is a legitimate question !

[bballfan84]

Are you saying this is a stupid post simply because you do not have a good answer for it.

Obviously, we would not put Jerrry Sundusky on AL, he would be fired. The point is that we obviously have some line where grace stops and punishment starts.

What if it would have been illegal drugs instead of perscriptions? What if he was distributing?

At some point, you would say "fire him". I am just wondering where that point is and how you justify it......if your argument is that "we all sin"...

It is a legitimate question !

I have a good amount of the facts...a lot more than the general public does..however I am not in the position to make the decision. I trust our Chancellor to handle this the way it should be. Eaker is on leave so I am assuming our administration is deciding on the question you just asked..so we will see shortly

[ProudLUAlum]

Thank you bball for a reasonable answer

[adam42381]

Are you saying this is a stupid post simply because you do not have a good answer for it.

Obviously, we would not put Jerrry Sundusky on AL, he would be fired. The point is that we obviously have some line where grace stops and punishment starts.

What if it would have been illegal drugs instead of perscriptions? What if he was distributing?

At some point, you would say "fire him". I am just wondering where that point is and how you justify it......if your argument is that "we all sin"...

It is a legitimate question !

They were illegal drugs which is why it was a felony. Just because they're prescription drugs doesn't make them better/worse than typical "street" drugs. Addiction and drug abuse is something that should be treated and the user should have a chance at rehabilitation instead of automatic termination. Distribution is an entirely different situation. I don't see any possible way that you can equate molesting a child with abusing drugs.

BTW, I don't see this as a grace issue at all. Every major corporation has a policy like this in place. I'm a school teacher and know for a fact that teachers who are suspected of drug/alcohol abuse are offered rehabilitation options well before termination becomes a factor. That said, as soon as someone is arrested on felony charges they should be placed on administrative leave or suspended immediately.

[ProudLUAlum]

We are a Christian University..however the University is made up of sinners!!! Mistakes will be made but we are saved by the grace of God. Do you want to take Eaker back out and hang him??

I still want to know...if we are using the "we are all sinners" argument.......how do we decide which sins warrant firing and which do not? How about which felonies?

[lynchburgwildcats]

Are you saying this is a stupid post simply because you do not have a good answer for it.

Obviously, we would not put Jerrry Sundusky on AL, he would be fired. The point is that we obviously have some line where grace stops and punishment starts.

What if it would have been illegal drugs instead of perscriptions? What if he was distributing?

At some point, you would say "fire him". I am just wondering where that point is and how you justify it......if your argument is that "we all sin"...

It is a legitimate question !

They were illegal drugs which is why it was a felony. Just because they're prescription drugs doesn't make them better/worse than typical "street" drugs. Addiction and drug abuse is something that should be treated and the user should have a chance at rehabilitation instead of automatic termination. Distribution is an entirely different situation. I don't see any possible way that you can equate molesting a child with abusing drugs.

BTW, I don't see this as a grace issue at all. Every major corporation has a policy like this in place. I'm a school teacher and know for a fact that teachers who are suspected of drug/alcohol abuse are offered rehabilitation options well before termination becomes a factor. That said, as soon as someone is arrested on felony charges they should be placed on administrative leave or suspended immediately.

Not that I am accusing Eaker of abusing prescription drugs since I have no idea if he is or not, but prescription drug abuse can be every bit as dangerous and deadly as abuse of cocaine or other hard, illegal drugs. Just because a prescription drug can be legal to buy doesn't make it any lesser of a abuse issue as the illegal variety...

[bballfan84]

its a case by case instance..which is why Eaker was placed on leave so that the administration could evaluate and see where they want to go with this..I think its odd he wasnt on leave when it happened but I think there will be a direction voiced in the near future

[flamehunter]

Even the legal system does not handle every situation the same. The circumstances surrounding the case, including the background of the offender, are evaluated and a judgment is handed down based on what the judge feels is in the best interest of all involved. As bball84 said, it is a case by case basis and the individuals charged with making the decisions have to use extreme care and judgment on how to handle it. We have no say in it and have to allow them to do their job. When all is said and done, we can voice our opinion on how it was handled but don't be surprised when what we say is taken with a grain of salt.

[RVAparks]

. As bball84 said, it is a case by case basis and the individuals charged with making the decisions have to use extreme care and judgment on how to handle it. We have no say in it and have to allow them to do their job. When all is said and done, we can voice our opinion on how it was handled but don't be surprised when what we say is taken with a grain of salt.

The thing is is that you DO have a say in it. Universities should be open forums where if you have invested in it then you should have a voice on issues you're passionate about. Many people invested their time, money, and many other things while being a student and continue to do so as alumni outside of the classroom by becoming an advocate for the university, booster, season ticket holder, etc...

Liberty University should not be a dictatorship with a veil like a communist nation, rather it should be a place for open ideas and a place where everyone has a voice. Too many times in my encounters with Liberty it has been treated like a bloodsucking for-profit rather than an open community to discuss ideals and focus on higher education.

If you don't think you have a voice in these kind of situation then you're either wrong or you need to yell louder.

[BJWilliams]

At the same time though, imagine if every decision the university made (whether personnel or otherwise) had to be vetted by the student body or alumni first...now the decisions that affect the students I can understand them having a say in it (like fee increases to fund new facilities or facility upgrades and things like that), but I really dont think that students or alumni should have say in decisions like whether to hire or fire personnel

[RVAparks]

At the same time though, imagine if every decision the university made (whether personnel or otherwise) had to be vetted by the student body or alumni first...now the decisions that affect the students I can understand them having a say in it (like fee increases to fund new facilities or facility upgrades and things like that), but I really dont think that students or alumni should have say in decisions like whether to hire or fire personnel

That's not the point I'm trying to convey. Decisions don't need to be made through a vote or anything, but your voice, at the same time, should be heard rather than thinking you have absolutely no say in the matter. Liberty is a monarchy, there is no denying that, and I often think intellectual ideals and what institutions of higher learning stand for our lost for the all mighty dollar. Obviously this isn't an isolated situations, but there seems to not even be an attempt at a facade or separation of departments. Rather weak leadership statements like "my staff" and lack of accountability from the monarchy.

[Purple Haize]

We are a Christian University..however the University is made up of sinners!!! Mistakes will be made but we are saved by the grace of God. Do you want to take Eaker back out and hang him??

I still want to know...if we are using the "we are all sinners" argument.......how do we decide which sins warrant firing and which do not? How about which felonies?

You bring up the Sandusky case. That was a cluster from the beginning. Reassigning him somewhere else in the administration was stupid and courting disaster. Can't really defend the indefensible.
Bernie Fine on the other hand is a great example of how to handle a situation. When the allegations were made, they were deemed substantive and he was placed on......wait for it......administrative leave. When presented with the preponderance of evidence, including recorded phone calls, he was terminated.
This case is different. It is more akin to Phil Ford then Jerry Sandusky. Of course, if you can't decree the deference between a pedophile working with young people and this situation then you are being ignorant are purposefully obtuse.

[flameshaw]

At the same time though, imagine if every decision the university made (whether personnel or otherwise) had to be vetted by the student body or alumni first...now the decisions that affect the students I can understand them having a say in it (like fee increases to fund new facilities or facility upgrades and things like that), but I really dont think that students or alumni should have say in decisions like whether to hire or fire personnel

That's not the point I'm trying to convey. Decisions don't need to be made through a vote or anything, but your voice, at the same time, should be heard rather than thinking you have absolutely no say in the matter. Liberty is a monarchy, there is no denying that, and I often think intellectual ideals and what institutions of higher learning stand for our lost for the all mighty dollar. Obviously this isn't an isolated situations, but there seems to not even be an attempt at a facade or separation of departments. Rather weak leadership statements like "my staff" and lack of accountability from the monarchy.

I hope you don't think that the administration of any university gives a rip about what an individual student or alumni thinks. (There may be an exception made for a very rich alumni, but no one on this board qualifies).

.

[jmdickens]

but I really dont think that students or alumni should have say in decisions like whether to hire or fire personnel

Wow...Well, it could probably be argued that it would be more beneficial to the University if it took the alumni into consideration for hiring a coach or anyone that will be one of the primary faces of the university.

[RVAparks]

At the same time though, imagine if every decision the university made (whether personnel or otherwise) had to be vetted by the student body or alumni first...now the decisions that affect the students I can understand them having a say in it (like fee increases to fund new facilities or facility upgrades and things like that), but I really dont think that students or alumni should have say in decisions like whether to hire or fire personnel

That's not the point I'm trying to convey. Decisions don't need to be made through a vote or anything, but your voice, at the same time, should be heard rather than thinking you have absolutely no say in the matter. Liberty is a monarchy, there is no denying that, and I often think intellectual ideals and what institutions of higher learning stand for our lost for the all mighty dollar. Obviously this isn't an isolated situations, but there seems to not even be an attempt at a facade or separation of departments. Rather weak leadership statements like "my staff" and lack of accountability from the monarchy.

I hope you don't think that the administration of any university gives a rip about what an individual student or alumni thinks. (There may be an exception made for a very rich alumni, but no one on this board qualifies).

.

Yea I do seem to think that since I work with in higher education and with several colleges of all shapes and sizes across the country. I've also gathered that notion from not only my experiences with local colleges growing up, but also my alma mater down 460. I could easily be ignored or sent the other way, but I've always had an open door with the AD, administration, President and Board for 10 years now. Even if there isn't a direct connection with the "top" most universities have a sounding board of sorts with alumni relations rather than a call center.

Once again if you don't think you can make a difference or people won't listen to you then yell louder. This isn't a university like Ohio State and this also isn't a jingoistic or Utopian approach. If you've invested in your university then they should at least lend an ear, if not then why did you invest in it in the first place and why do you continue to do so?

[flameshaw]

I invest because I trust the people who are running the show. I have been a Flames Club member (or what ever the name was at the time) since the early 90's at least. I would say I am an above average giver, but LU wouldn't miss my money if I decided not to give. I just don't believe that because I give some money every year, that it gives me a right to be involved in any decisions that the university makes. The AD, Chancellor. etc. are much more in the know than I am and many times more capable of making better decisions. If they end up making enough decisions that I don't like, I have the freedom not to give any more. Besides, what are we to do, take a vote of all the boosters when a major decision needs to be made? What level of booster? How long have they been a booster? Who does the booster know? How big a margin of the vote does the booster community have? What if the Admin. doesn't go along with the vote? etc. Sorry, way too much trouble for me.

[jmdickens]

I invest because I trust the people who are running the show. I have been a Flames Club member (or what ever the name was at the time) since the early 90's at least. I would say I am an above average giver, but LU wouldn't miss my money if I decided not to give. I just don't believe that because I give some money every year, that it gives me a right to be involved in any decisions that the university makes.

Do you make decisions in regards to the bank with the money you keep in the bank? Do you bend over every time a utility company or other service decides to raise the rates or cut back benefits?

You do have a say in the matter. That is the point of being a customer. The same thing applies to a University. Schools will do a lot when it comes to the fan base if it cost the school dollars.

Also, I know UNC sent out surveys to its alumni and current students for their opening for Chancellor: former businessman, educator, higher education administration experience. It can work, accountability is always a good thing.