[olldflame]

This is one time I think you hit the nail on the head dox. Using Marshall as the previous "gold standard" for Big South coaches, you see a young coach who til now has never been the head man at any level above the Big South, and Winthrop at that, where expectations were non-existant on his arrival. Having far exceeded them in the first 2 or 3 years, he moved directly from neophyte to virtual deity. He is a fine coach, and should do well in Wichita, but let him have a mediocre year or 2 and he will soon find out what it is to fall short of high expectations. Maybe RMc will take some time to counsel with him at that point.

[kazport]

This is one time I think you hit the nail on the head dox. Using Marshall as the previous "gold standard" for Big South coaches, you see a young coach who til now has never been the head man at any level above the Big South, and Winthrop at that, where expectations were non-existant on his arrival. Having far exceeded them in the first 2 or 3 years, he moved directly from neophyte to virtual deity. He is a fine coach, and should do well in Wichita, but let him have a mediocre year or 2 and he will soon find out what it is to fall short of high expectations. Maybe RMc will take some time to counsel with him at that point.

Nice job. Well put.

[Realist]

Equating Mckay with Marshall is hilarious. Mckay just got fired and sent down to the minors. We saw what happened to Buzz. I'm not saying that will happen, but that's more likely than having some immense success. Personally, I think he'll be decent, certainly an improvement over Dunton, may take LU to a tournament once in about 5 years, and finish 3rd-6th in others.

[Sly Fox]

Come, Realist. Its hilarious to you? Marshall hasn't done anything yet on a major stage. McKay has before hitting rough spot (finalist for national coach of the year at Colorado State). Gregg's stock is rising while Ritchie is rebuilding on the highest level that Marshall ever "succeeded" at up to this point. Both are quality coaches and I don't see a particular need to compare. But its far from ridiculous.

[JK37]

Let's also not forget that while the stated reason for RMc's firing at NMU was not meeting their high expectations, there was also a strong underlying theme against his often outspoken beliefs. Nobody really said it, but that got him fired as much as his mediocre production over the last season or two.

So, to say he was "sent back down to the minors" is not entirely true in the spirit of that moniker.

[Fumblerooskies]

Equating Mckay with Marshall is hilarious. Mckay just got fired and sent down to the minors. We saw what happened to Buzz. I'm not saying that will happen, but that's more likely than having some immense success. Personally, I think he'll be decent, certainly an improvement over Dunton, may take LU to a tournament once in about 5 years, and finish 3rd-6th in others.

That is not an improvement over Dunton. We will be expecting 1st or contending every year, after a possible first year hiccup.

[El Scorcho]

Let's also not forget that while the stated reason for RMc's firing at NMU was not meeting their high expectations...

"High expectations" is a bit of an understatement. UNM seems to be a program that (at least according to their own fans) feels like they're "big time", when they really haven't done any "big time" things. Given what he had to work with in the way of support, it's not entirely surprising that things ended the way they did. Everything I've read from the editorials to the posting from their fans on our board and others indicates that he never really stood a chance of being successful there.

He has all of the support in the world at LU, which should go a long way into letting his coaching be as successful as it can be. What he does here will be a much better measure of him as a coach than anything that happened UNM.

[Cider Jim]

That is not an improvement over Dunton.

Understatement or hyperbole? I don't follow, Fumble.

[Schfourteenteen]

That is not an improvement over Dunton.

Understatement or hyperbole? I don't follow, Fumble.

It was in response to the idea of us finishing 3rd to 6th for most of McCay's tenure

Personally, I think he'll be decent, certainly an improvement over Dunton, may take LU to a tournament once in about 5 years, and finish 3rd-6th in others.

[grm]

Interesting reading, gentlemen. Don't forget that Chris Lang, on March 2, 2007, headlined "These Flames possessed too much talent for too few wins." And also "Liberty should be primed to make a run at the Big South Championship."
Im not as knowledgeable as I should be, but hasn't RMK brought in some great recruits that Randy couldn't pull in, to go with these high expectations?

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

Come, Realist. Its hilarious to you? Marshall hasn't done anything yet on a major stage. McKay has before hitting rough spot (finalist for national coach of the year at Colorado State). Gregg's stock is rising while Ritchie is rebuilding on the highest level that Marshall ever "succeeded" at up to this point. Both are quality coaches and I don't see a particular need to compare. But its far from ridiculous.

Normally I would agree with u, and i do agree about the stuff u said about RM but Marshall did do it on a big stage... He went to the dance and took a Big South Team past the first round which has never been done.

[Chris Lang]

And also "Liberty should be primed to make a run at the Big South Championship."

That was when Brewington was still on the team. Now? I don't know.

[grm]

Hi Chris!

Always very good to hear from you. Naturally, I'm not holding you to that, just bringing it up to show where we were a few hort months ago compared to where the guys "SAY WE ARE" right now.

I'm using you as the ultimate authority - and, as I have said before, as a man without an agenda - just speaking the truth. I wish the program & RMK well, but I doubt that he had a magic wand in his briefcase when he arrived at Lynchburg.

Anyway... Go Flames, and great to read your input.

[Realist]

I don't accept the skewed logic that being in a conference with more resources makes you a bigger success than one in a small conference. In fact, I think it's tougher to achieve success in a smaller conference. Mckay hasn't done anything to approach what Marshall has, anyone not at Liberty would tell you that, if they even knew who Mckay was. I also don't buy that he was fired b/c of his personal beliefs. If there is one thing that is constant in college athletics, it is that regardless of personal conduct and other things, winning keeps your job and losing loses it. Not to mention the fact that being a christian is in no way shape or form going to hurt a coach at a school. I mean, guys don't get fired for much worse discretions than being a christian. Anyways, my two cents, even though discussion of Marshall is pretty much pointless anyway, though I do wish him well.

[grm]

"Realist"

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

I don't accept the skewed logic that being in a conference with more resources makes you a bigger success than one in a small conference. In fact, I think it's tougher to achieve success in a smaller conference. Mckay hasn't done anything to approach what Marshall has, anyone not at Liberty would tell you that, if they even knew who Mckay was. I also don't buy that he was fired b/c of his personal beliefs. If there is one thing that is constant in college athletics, it is that regardless of personal conduct and other things, winning keeps your job and losing loses it. Not to mention the fact that being a christian is in no way shape or form going to hurt a coach at a school. I mean, guys don't get fired for much worse discretions than being a christian. Anyways, my two cents, even though discussion of Marshall is pretty much pointless anyway, though I do wish him well.

I never thought I would say this... but... I.... agree.... with a WINTHROP fan...

[paradox]

I have a great deal of respect for Greg Marshall, but all in all, the guy was just a big fish in a small pond when he was in this conference.

The way I see it, Marshall really only had one big win: Notre Dame in the NCAA's. Other than that, Winthrop had a bunch of "almost" wins, and as a consequence never really made it as anything other than an underdog and a cinderella. It may have seemed bigger than that to followers of the Big South, but the rest of the BB world viewed the situation more from the cinderella perspective. Normally, a program needs multiple wins against ranked teams before the program can be considered to have "made it." Valpo went all the way to the sweet sixteen back in the 90's, but really didn't follow it up with anything. Winthrop would be a major step below that accomplishment on many levels. So, I can't imagine the ND win resonating in any way outside of Rock Hill, SC.

It's true, McKay never had the luxary to dominate one of the NCAA's weakest conferences--but he does now!

[kazport]

I have a great deal of respect for Greg Marshall, but all in all, the guy was just a big fish in a small pond when he was in this conference.

The way I see it, Marshall really only had one big win: Notre Dame in the NCAA's. Other than that, Winthrop had a bunch of "almost" wins, and as a consequence never really made it as anything other than an underdog and a cinderella. It may have seemed bigger than that to followers of the Big South, but the rest of the BB world viewed the situation more from the cinderella perspective. Normally, a program needs multiple wins against ranked teams before the program can be considered to have "made it." Valpo went all the way to the sweet sixteen back in the 90's, but really didn't follow it up with anything. Winthrop would be a major step below that accomplishment on many levels. So, I can't imagine the ND win resonating in any way outside of Rock Hill, SC.

It's true, McKay never had the luxary to dominate one of the NCAA's weakest conferences--but he does now!

I could definately not have said it better.

[Realist]

Looks like there are some very jealous posters here.

To belittle Marshall's accomplishments is just stupid. The guy created a top 50 program in the nation from scratch. Everyone who follows college basketball knows that Winthrop is one of the better programs in the nation. I work at a large company with employees that hail from everywhere in the country, when they stop by and see my WU gear, they always remark, Winthrop, great basketball school. Sorry to burst your bubble.

In addition, the fact that Winthrop has become a recognized program is keeping the recruits rolling in. We may have a multiple 3 stars coming in next year (definitely have at least one) where other programs in the conference are lucky to get one two star.

But I guess we'll see how Mckay stacks up, if he can win the title this year, and then 7 of the next 9, maybe we can compare him to Marshall. I seriously doubt that is going to happen.

[TIMSCAR20]

I have to say that beating Marquette in their home tournament and going to ODU and their other bracketbuster 2 seasons ago that went double OT were big wins. ND was on a bigger stage and is clearly their biggest accomplishment but from what WU was to where Marshall took them I would have to say he was extraordinary and not a big fish in a small pond. It is not like he was a top assistant at Duke or Carolina and came in and turned them around. He was a virtual nobody outside of the coaching world with stops at College of Charleston and Marshall. His accomplishments are something that we may not see again in this league or this level. I think it is silly to try to down play what he did. If it was so easy, Eddie Biedenbaugh, Ron Bradley and Jeff Meyer would have done it. All pretty good coaches and respected in the basketball community and all had teams in the big south with talent but no one comes close to the 8 years Marshall spent in the big south in terms of accomplishments....I do hope that McKay can bring some level of success to our program but 6 out of 8 in any league is really, really, really tough to do. I give Gregg his due.

[LUconn]

I agree with you Scar, but this:

Everyone who follows college basketball knows that Winthrop is one of the better programs in the nation.

deserves the roflcopter.

[Cider Jim]

Unless I'm mistaken, Winthrop is not even one of the best program in its own state.

[Realist]

Unless I'm mistaken, Winthrop is not even one of the best program in its own state.

They are unquestionably the best in the state. Unless we moved to North Carolina and I didn't know about it.

[LUconn]

I guess "the best in SC" is debatable, but didn't USC win the NIT as recent as 1 year ago? Despite the fact that, that tournament is for at larges who weren't good enough to get into the NCAAs, it's still difficult to win and I honestly don't think any of the past WU teams could have.

[jmdickens]

hello Clemson