[kel varson]

Sometimes I think we forget what success looks like and it takes a new face (Barber) to remind us:

Winthrop:

28-4 so far this year

21-8 last season

24-6 3 years ago

20-10 four years ago

19-12 five years ago

18-13 six years ago

18-8 seven years ago

Notice the trend.

[TallyW]

paradox... just because you can explain away your missteps doesn't mean you didn't take them...

After a while it doesn't matter what the excuse is.... it's time for change. The Big South is near the bottom every year as far as competitiveness.... We shouldn't be judging our success strictly on winning this conference. Our Lady Flames have given us an idea of what we should be doing in our other sports (not necessarily domination but a high level of success). We are the premiere Christian University in America... we should be able to hold our own against just about anyone.... We need leadership here who believes that and who can get it done without excuses.... I have no problem with RD... I wish him well. But I also can appreciate what JB is charged with doing and how he's doing it.

We can't settle with explaining away failure each year.


Separately... someone refresh my memory (and I may have read it on another post) but wasn't Birmingham Southern or High Point on preliminary affiliation or something with a better record than us in 2004?

[thepostman]

Separately... someone refresh my memory (and I may have read it on another post) but wasn't Birmingham Southern or High Point on preliminary affiliation or something with a better record than us in 2004?

yeah it was Birmingham Southern....we beat High Point in the final, but in reality Birmingham Southern was the number one seed, they just weren't eligible for post season play yet

[paradox]

I have a great appreciation for Greg Marshall and Winthrop. Near the end of the Missouri State game on ESPN, the camera panned over to Marshall and the announcer said, "you are looking at the next great coach in college basketball." That about sums it up for me. Who knows, he may be the head coach at UCLA someday.

Nobody ever said that Randy Dunton was a John Wooden, let alone, a Gregg Marshall.

Winthrop should make a serious run at the sweet sixteen this season, thanks to Marshall.

The Marshall trend is about as impressive as it gets in the Big South, and it will probally never be duplicated. Do you have any idea how rare his accomplishments are for this conference or for this level of play in general? Get real!

Any Winthrop fan would tell you that they are both blessed and lucky to have a Gregg Marshall running the show.

Will the Big South ever see another Greg Marshall?

[paradox]

paradox... just because you can explain away your missteps doesn't mean you didn't take them...

After a while it doesn't matter what the excuse is.... it's time for change. The Big South is near the bottom every year as far as competitiveness.... We shouldn't be judging our success strictly on winning this conference. Our Lady Flames have given us an idea of what we should be doing in our other sports (not necessarily domination but a high level of success). We are the premiere Christian University in America... we should be able to hold our own against just about anyone.... We need leadership here who believes that and who can get it done without excuses.... I have no problem with RD... I wish him well. But I also can appreciate what JB is charged with doing and how he's doing it.

We can't settle with explaining away failure each year.


Separately... someone refresh my memory (and I may have read it on another post) but wasn't Birmingham Southern or High Point on preliminary affiliation or something with a better record than us in 2004?

Tally:

Everyone here wants this high level of success that you speak of, however, as long as LU remains in the Big South, it will be unlikely that we get the big-time coach that we all desire.

A Gregg Marshall showing up in Winthrop is a fluke.

How many coaches have moved out of the Big South into big-time head coaching gigs elsewhere? Get my drift?

[El Scorcho]

Get real!

I prefer optimism.

[FlameNForest]

I guess you would

You have the right to imagine that a certain coach was "below average" in 4 of 5 years, but that is clearly not the case.

Numbers alone tell us nothing. They need to be viewed in the proper context. There was a conference championship in there somewhere only two years removed from Hankinson and the worst RPI in the nation. We hit a few bumps after the championship season, hit the bottom and then started a upward trend.Whoever comes in after RD certainly gets a good thing, unlike RD who inherited the Hankinson disaster.

One final note...it is possible to be better than Mel and still be below average. We had one great year and four below .500 seasons.

I think JB made the right decision and am looking forward to moving on.

[paradox]

I'm optimistic that LU could land a Gregg Marshall of it's own someday, if and when we ever move up into a reputable conference such as the CAA

[paradox]

Hey, I still give Dunton alot of credit. But that doesn't mean that I don't want an upgrade as far as the new head coach is concerned. I wish the best for LU basketball.

Whoever we get will have my full support and hopefully he takes us back to the NCAA's

[TallyW]

Tally:

Everyone here wants this high level of success that you speak of, however, as long as LU remains in the Big South, it will be unlikely that we get the big-time coach that we all desire.

A Gregg Marshall showing up in Winthrop is a fluke.

How many coaches have moved out of the Big South into big-time head coaching gigs elsewhere? Get my drift?

Our conference affiliation isn't the biggest problem. Football doesn't even have a way into their year-end tournament apart from an at-large birth and we obviously got someone everyone agrees is great for our program.

Basketball is the same... Winthrop has only 4 losses this year... your OOC schedule determines a LOT when you play in a lousy conference.... I can't name more than 3 teams in Gonzaga's conference (and that's because I saw 2 of them play Gonzaga this past week). To cry about conference affiliation is lame... especially when a coach who wants a head-coaching gig will be coming from an assistant job (more than likely).... they aren't going to care as much about our conference affiliation as they will about freedom to do whatever they feel necessary to build the program. 'get my drift'?

[kel varson]

Tally:

Everyone here wants this high level of success that you speak of, however, as long as LU remains in the Big South, it will be unlikely that we get the big-time coach that we all desire.

A Gregg Marshall showing up in Winthrop is a fluke.

How many coaches have moved out of the Big South into big-time head coaching gigs elsewhere? Get my drift?

Our conference affiliation isn't the biggest problem. Football doesn't even have a way into their year-end tournament apart from an at-large birth and we obviously got someone everyone agrees is great for our program.

Basketball is the same... Winthrop has only 4 losses this year... your OOC schedule determines a LOT when you play in a lousy conference.... I can't name more than 3 teams in Gonzaga's conference (and that's because I saw 2 of them play Gonzaga this past week). To cry about conference affiliation is lame... especially when a coach who wants a head-coaching gig will be coming from an assistant job (more than likely).... they aren't going to care as much about our conference affiliation as they will about freedom to do whatever they feel necessary to build the program. 'get my drift'?

Good point.

[Cider Jim]

Any chance of RD getting a significant payraise if he lands the Bighamton job?

Anybody know how much the last coach made?

[paradox]

Tally:

Everyone here wants this high level of success that you speak of, however, as long as LU remains in the Big South, it will be unlikely that we get the big-time coach that we all desire.

A Gregg Marshall showing up in Winthrop is a fluke.

How many coaches have moved out of the Big South into big-time head coaching gigs elsewhere? Get my drift?

Our conference affiliation isn't the biggest problem. Football doesn't even have a way into their year-end tournament apart from an at-large birth and we obviously got someone everyone agrees is great for our program.

Basketball is the same... Winthrop has only 4 losses this year... your OOC schedule determines a LOT when you play in a lousy conference.... I can't name more than 3 teams in Gonzaga's conference (and that's because I saw 2 of them play Gonzaga this past week). To cry about conference affiliation is lame... especially when a coach who wants a head-coaching gig will be coming from an assistant job (more than likely).... they aren't going to care as much about our conference affiliation as they will about freedom to do whatever they feel necessary to build the program. 'get my drift'?

Good point.

The football comparison makes no sense for obvious reasons.

The Rocco comparison makes no sense until Rocco actually achieves something. Even Dunton, of all people, went to the NCAA's in his second year.

Claiming that Gonzaga's conference, the West Coast, is historically lame and comparable to the Big South, only demonstrates your ignorance. I think that John Stockton, Bo Kimble, Adam Morrison and Steve Nash, among others, clearly expose your assumption as false.

I'll leave you to your fantasies as far as conference affiliation goes and what role that plays in landing a truly hot coaching prospect.

[SuperJon]

The Rocco comparison makes no sense until Rocco actually achieves something. Even Dunton, of all people, went to the NCAA's in his second year.

Oh no he di-hind't.

[TallyW]

paradox... your name suits you well. Please read through the following... It'll learn you something.

You really try to place Dunton's arrival on this campus above Rocco's? You're out of your mind.

A coach does so much more for a University than simply coach their team. In fact I'd say the off-the-field/court involvement is nearly as important or more important in the early going... RD didn't connect with the student body... (Can I get an Amen SJ?) where as Rocco kicked the team's rear in gear and got himself out in the community from day one... he also had the team do smaller things that make a big difference... like the school fight song... etc...I don't know of another time that this school got so pumped about one coach coming to campus. You're missing the point if you are still looking for Rocco's impact.

Only because I'm tired of hearing about a conference championship in his second year as a defense for keeping a coach around who has lost half of the players he recruited...
I need to remind you of the fact that the year we won the conference we would not have even been the number 1 seed b/c a brand new team to our league had a better record... and they weren't allowed to play in the tourney. They beat us out in the regular season... a brand new team to the conference... Here are the RPIs for that year... after we went to the NCAA...

161 Birmingham Southern BSth 18-7 .4918 .4158 318 0-1 0-0 2-2 16-4 6-3 183 302 8-2 8-6
162 Duquesne A10 12-17 .4905 .5161 114 2-7 1-5 3-4 6-1 5-6 217 254 3-7 4-9
163 Wright St. Horz 14-13 .4902 .4807 192 0-1 1-5 4-4 9-3 4-6 212 191 4-6 6-8
164 Fairleigh Dickinson NEC 16-12 .4901 .4630 248 0-0 0-2 4-2 12-8 4-4 162 167 5-5 7-9
165 (Liberty) BSth 17-14 .4901 .4706 226 0-3 0-3 2-3 15-5 2-10 235 73 8-2 5-12


The end of season RPI had LU BEHIND Birmingham Southern... We still had 14 loses as the champ of the Big South. Birmingham Southern didn't play in the tourney but they ended the year with more wins and we played 6 more games. I'm not bashing that LU team... they played the schedule in front of them and won their tourney... I'm simply stating that even in the year Dunton won there is an asterisk* next to that year b/c it was what mathematicians call an anomaly, an outlier, a diversion from the norm...

What's funny is you held up arguments that I didn't make just so you can trash them... that's called a straw man...

I don't recall saying "the West Coast, is historically lame and comparable to the Big South". In fact, I didn't say that. I said that teams other than the Cinderella of the decade (Gonzaga... the team no one knew about) are basically unknown for their conference affiliation. To cite the conference as a powerhouse you name 4 players? Wow... you prove your point... they are mighty b/c 4 guys have played in that entire conference ALL TIME???? Morrison and Stockton played for the school in question so I wouldn't even include them b/c that simply proves that great players can come from a crappy conference... that's my whole point... In addition... Gonzaga didn't make their first ever NCAA appearence until 10 years after Stockton graduated.... It obviously wasn't an amazing conference... he was a diamond in the rough.

The conference doesn't matter as much as you think when we're looking to give a guy his first shot at a head job... guys on their way up don't mind getting out of the shadows of their mentors by going somewhere to make a name... Can anyone say Jeff Capel? The CAA isn't exactly the ACC now is it? He took that job... did a great job... then moved to Oklahoma... that's the type of coach JB is looking for... someone on their way up... now hopefully we'll get someone who plans to stick around... but either way... if we got a Jeff Capel in the Vines for a few years I think we'd be in good shape...

Our conference gives a decent coach a great shot at the NCAA tourney... that's all they are going to need... that.. and some freedom to do the job. 'get my drift?'

[SuperJon]

Amen.

[PAmedic]

in case no one noticed, SJ just "AMEN'd" Tally.

I think they are in love.

[TallyW]

Medic... don't be jealous... I got love for my vertically challenged friends too

[SuperJon]

He asked for it.

The scary thing is I agreed with everything he said.

I could add more, but really there's no point.

[thepostman]

I miss the good ol' days when Tally and SJ hated eachother...ahhh

and back on topic...very, VERY good post Tally...I agreed with every word also

[NJLibertyboy]

Randy Dunton got in due to an automatic birth into a 64 team field. Without that automatic berth, we would have no chance of getting into the tourney. Nonetheless, he got there in his second season. He had a year to rebuild before he got to the tournament. Also, there was an attendance increase, but it was minimal compared to Rocco. A year after we won the title, attendance dropped again. We could not maintain the level of excitement, or success past his second season.

Secondly, Rocco came in here trying to get this college into an at-large bid, with far less teams getting into the tourney. A much harder feat. We could have easily gotten there last year, but we had some tough games. With Rocco also came a raised attendance. We went from 75th to like 27th with almost 12,000 a game.

Comparing Dunton's arrival to Rocco's is silly. Rocco has made a faster impact that Dunton did, and with the team we have this year, I expect that to continue.

[Hold My Own]

Randy Dunton got in due to an automatic birth into a 64 team field. Without that automatic berth, we would have no chance of getting into the tourney.

You lost my interest after that statement...the big south wouldn't have ever had a team represented if it wasn't for the auto bid...and that goes for half the mid major conferences as well. Let's just have a field of 32 and all are selected

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

Randy Dunton got in due to an automatic birth into a 64 team field. Without that automatic berth, we would have no chance of getting into the tourney.

You lost my interest after that statement...the big south wouldn't have ever had a team represented if it wasn't for the auto bid...and that goes for half the mid major conferences as well. Let's just have a field of 32 and all are selected

Thank You HMO, I didnt want to say it... haha
NJLB, You must have a biiiiiig problem with College Basketball then. March wouldnt be half as great as it is if you got rid of the automatic bids haha I just find the whole thing funny, Yes lets bash Dunton based on the fact we got an automatic Bid and not an At Large bid...


PS this is still a football campus which is why you have more fans... but basketball is still I-A and not I-AA... not to downplay football cause they are doing great, but cmonnnnn mannnnn

[PAmedic]

PS this is still a football campus which is why you have more fans... but basketball is still I-A and not I-AA... not to downplay football cause they are doing great, but cmonnnnn mannnnn

OH YOU DON'T EVEN WANT TO START THAT DICUSSION DO YOU?

[PAmedic]

FOOTBALL: DIVISION I

BASKETBALL: DIVISION I

for that matter:

GOLF: DIVISION I

SOFTBALL: DIVISION I

TENNIS: DIVISION I

CROSS COUNTRY: DIVISION I

BASEBALL: DIVISION I

VOLLEYBALL: DIVISION I

get the point?