[A.G.]

He needs to get it done this year in order to be around for 07-08.

[LUconn]

I think in order for him to be around for the '08-'09 season, he's got to finish in the top 3 both seasons. Then he gets 1 more but he's got to get a championship in the next 3 years to keep going after that. But like you said, at the end of anyone's contract if things are looking good at the end it makes you want to give them another chance.

Didn't I read somewhere that his contract is up at the end of this year? If so, I would not think he would take a one year offer.

Well, I think depending on the situation, he would take what he could get. But you're right in the fact that we'd give him a longer extention. As I'm sure you're aware, contracts really don't mean anything in terms of when you can get rid of someone.

[Rocketfan]

Are you guys crazy? Karcher got a 5 year extention for being terrible! You don't think RD's championship and 2 second place finishes bought him more time? Hankinson had no good seasons.

Good counter points--but remember, in each of Karcher's last two seasons of his original contract, the team finished strong, which wrongly indicated better days ahead. You are absolutely right about RD--and I will agree and said all along last year that the school should give him a pass. BUT, I think we all agree that substantial progress must be shown this year. EVen with a championship game visit, if we finish in the middle of the pack in the season, I would think it would be a very bad thing for coach.

Ohh stop it, we played horribly ranked competition to end those seasons. I remember like 3 our of 5 of those wins each year were against the bottom 15 in RPI. Jerry admitted he was the ONLY ONE who wanted Karcher back and since it was his decision, he made it. No one saw better days ahead....even comparing the two is just crazy. The team needs to improve yes, but these two guys have had much different paths since coming to LU.

[jmdickens]

Look who we beat, they are normally terrible teams. *besides Winthrop, I loved it.

[mrich]

I think that one of the problems of the coaching staff is that they are either are not good at evaluating or implementing. It seems that during RD's tenure that we always make the same mistakes during games. Either they do not see these mistakes, or they do not know how to fix them in practice. Either way, it makes for a long season.

[Hold My Own]

I believe I've learned that these discussions/arguments will never stop...especially at a University where voice's are heard...and it also appears that the opinions and views from those actually in the know really don't matter to some...take their word for it

[Sly Fox]

Your absence has provided you much wisdom, HMO-san.

Bellyaching just before the season starts can be therapeutic to some but in sum it is not beneficial to muych of anyone. If the team has another disastrous season then there is merit to further talk. Otherwise its not fruitful. But I'm not running a Nazi regime. As long as things don't get personal (although its been teetering close to the line) then there is room for discussion. When people stop talking about the program is when the real trouble comes ... apathy. Reference the Mel era to your memory banks.

[mrich]

check it out

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasket ... IB/9777949

"PROGRAM DIRECTION
Dunton is in his sixth season and has had one winning season. More importantly, he's just 39-35 in the Big South. The program isn't moving up or down, which means it's not getting better. This is a pivotal year for Dunton who needs to prove he can make the Flames competitive in the Big South"

Emphasis mine

Hard to argue with that LUConn

[LUconn]

Yes, who could argue with a website that covers 337 different teams. I think I'll trust my own opinion over theirs. I've seen almost every single home game of the past 6 yearsm followed recruiting, team news, etc. and they take a look at the roster once a year and make judgements based on a few out of context stats.

[mrich]

What I was saying is that you said that no could argue with the success that Dunton has had in the Big South. I have also been here for the entire Dunton era, and I would hardly call 39-35 a success. I would call it average, which is not good enough!! I do not think that there needs to be a context for winning and losing, the goal is to win plain and simple. The contexts that are made up for the 39-35 record are most accurately defined as excuses.

[LUconn]

Right, but like I was saying, if you didn't know any better and took 39-35 at face value, you wouldn't know that before last season that record was 36-20, which is downright good for a program in the septic tank of the conference. The fact is last year was bad. Very bad. If we were even .500 in conference last year we wouldnt be having this converstation. We would be wary, but we wouldn't have so many detractors. 1 season does not make a coach what he is.

[A.G.]

What I was saying is that you said that no could argue with the success that Dunton has had in the Big South. I have also been here for the entire Dunton era, and I would hardly call 39-35 a success. I would call it average, which is not good enough!! I do not think that there needs to be a context for winning and losing, the goal is to win plain and simple. The contexts that are made up for the 39-35 record are most accurately defined as excuses.

Records better than that have gotten coaches run off.

[mrich]

It is not all about last year. Besides 04 we have underachieved every year. 03 we lost at home to Radford in the Semi's. 05 we lost to Charlston Southern at home again. Then last year. All that I am saying is that 04 is the only year that I would define as successful. Hopefully that will change this year. I have graduated now, but when I was on campus the consensus from most of the students was that our team was a joke, and it should not have to be that way. Our school deserves better.

[SuperJon]

"Before last year..."

That's the dumbest statement I've ever heard.

Before last year I was skinnier. Before last year we had a horrible football coach. Before last year Republicans held control of congress. Before last year the Braves were good.

I can go on.

[LUconn]

keep going because you're making my point for me.

[Chris Lang]

Just to confirm something brought up earlier in the thread: Dunton's contract is up at the end of this season, and Barber said he will evaluate Dunton's status then. He wants to be around for a year so he can make an informed decision instead of just making a snap to judgement either way.

[LUconn]

Interesting. So now everybody saying "this year is a pivitol year for Dunton" is pretty much stating the obvious.

[flameshaw]

In my opinion this may really tell us something about the span of Barber's control. The reason that RD is back at LU is becuase someone close to the throne, has been carrying the water for RD for some time. IF we have a less than stellar year, and Barber is able to make his own decision, it will be interesting to see how things unfold. If we have a very good year, Barber really doesn't have a reason to make a change. I do think it will be an interesing the rest of the year.

[A.G.]

I believe it will take a VERY good year, which is why I mentioned that 15-15, 4th place, and a loss in the semis won't cut it. The powers that be had to have learned their lesson with Karcher and re-signing someone with a mediocre record. Let's pray it does not come to that.

[LUconn]

Here's a question to thow out there:

Would that record mentioned above warrant them not extending his contract?

I mean, we don't want to be fooled into thinking "it looks like he's got things in the right direction" if it really isn't, ala Karcher did to us a few times. But you also have to consider all that goes into hiring a new coach and the years it would take for a new coach to impliment his sytem with his own recruits. That sets you back a few years. There's something to be said for having a fixed staple in the leadership department. It's a tuff call and hopefully we won't have to make it. I'm just glad I wouldn't have to.

[SuperJon]

I think a good coach can turn a program around in a year. Look at Coastal last year as an example.

[A.G.]

Here's a question to thow out there:

Would that record mentioned above warrant them not extending his contract?

I mean, we don't want to be fooled into thinking "it looks like he's got things in the right direction" if it really isn't, ala Karcher did to us a few times. But you also have to consider all that goes into hiring a new coach and the years it would take for a new coach to impliment his sytem with his own recruits. That sets you back a few years. There's something to be said for having a fixed staple in the leadership department. It's a tuff call and hopefully we won't have to make it. I'm just glad I wouldn't have to.

I fear that it will take 16-19 wins, top 2-3 regular season, plus a trip to the title game. Maybe those that are close to the program can offer wisdom on this.

[TIMSCAR20]

I don't know if any of that criteria is true. I have not heard that this is a do or die year for RD. I do know that the administration would like to field a winning and successful football and basketball team sooner rather than later. I don't think this is a win or else year but I would say that a repeat of last season could work against this staff in terms of public relations and public perception of the program. Conversely a successful year with some wins esp. in conference will make everyone forget about last year. The perception of some is that last year was par for the course while others contend it was an anomaly. This season could go a long way to proving one of the camps correct. We all want what is best for the program. RD has spent a great deal of his coaching life in Lynchburg as an assistant and a head coach. I think he would step down if he didn't think he could get the job done IMO. But none of that matters. Performance is what it is all about and I think Jeff Barber is the type of AD that wants to see results.

[mrich]

Well said SCAR, performance is what matters.

[grm]

I think someone mentioned a loss to Radford in the semis. I think that was RD's first year back, and I think it was a one point loss with a couple of close shots at the bucket in the closing seconds, and with someone not passing the ball to an open Gabe, and I think it was after being the WORST team in the nation the year before. Honestly, this is from memory, and I stand to be corrected if wrong. I believe I was sitting close enough to have made the winning shot myself - again, if memory serves me correctly. Was it the 2nd year that we won by 45 points for the Big South? Who calls such a program a joke? I do remember specifically students charging the floor, and trying to make sure I didn't get run over before I could filter my way through to congratulate Coach.

It's all out there. Someone's going to have to put up, and if he does, someone's going to have to shut up
(but I doubt they will). It's kind of like asking the terrorists to stop plotting to push Israel into the sea.

Of course, another bad season could cause the admin to make a coaching decision - that's their job.
I think every coach in the world understands that reality at this level.