[Purple Haize]

I will agree that there would have been several more posters on my side just a few short years ago. So much negativity scares away those with less thick skin than I have. Thus so few active posters. I also think its funny that some seem to toss the homer cool ade thing at me like an insult. I take it as a complement for a dedicated fan.

Again, far from perfect and extremely disappointing, but I believe it could set the program back even further to buy coach layer loose.

Alas, it's only an opinion and not my decision to make.

It's no more an insult than being a part of Embrace it. Encourage people to join your way of thinking. If people are scared away by their inability to explain their positions than that's a Them problem.
And let's be honest. What has this BB team done to dissuade the negativity

[ballcoach15]

A change should be made at end of season. the day after returning from Conway,SC. He has been here long enough to build up the program but has not. Bring in a coach who can recruit as well as our baseball , football and softball coaches . plus women's basketball .

[rhezick]

Wait, I'm not a writer, I'm a fan. Credibility? On a message board? Please. I have an opinion just like you. If this was Matt Doherty, maybe I'm close to the mob mentality. It's not.

Agreed. Kind of the reason I feel like there's not more new people on this board. As a long time lurker (8 years), it wasn't until recently I actually created an account for this reason. Geez, rooster's just citing his opinion. Seems like there's a crap load of personal stuff going on around this board...maybe it's Liberty politics or some stupid crap I don't understand. Or maybe this is how forums say "hi." Either way, I hope his opinion credentials aren't revoked.

And put lipstick on a pig all you want...this season is over, so who cares if the guy stays. He took us to our obligatory once a decade tourney appearance. The basketball program won't be magically changing for the better anytime soon. Let's talk relevance again by 2024.

Thin skin makes for a challenging message board existence. Rooster can post all he wants. I'm sure he's a big enough boy to defend himself. Seems to be making a good effort at it.

Fair enough, although it seems more of a cop out than a legitimate excuse on something so subjective as this. But hey, good to know I can throw that flag when needed.

[Purple Haize]

What's a cop out? Having thin skin? Or being scared to come on a message board because of an inability to articulate your position?

[VAGolf]

Hm, the reasons why Dale Layer hasn't been fired:

You can't blame him for injuries!

We're just young now, we'll be better next year.

He's got a great JUCO player coming in who will turn it around!

He's an LU guy! (whatever that means)

He's a strong believer!


I've heard all this BS for years. Get this fool off of campus, he doesn't belong as the HC of a D1 program.

[adam42381]

I'd imagine a major reason for the lack of new posters around these parts is the historic lack of post-season success in all the major men's sports. It's hard to get excited for programs that have been inept for long periods of time. Football is turning it around and baseball is making huge strides to become relevant on a yearly basis. Basketball has almost always been terrible. It gets tiring after a while and is a major reason why Liberty is still considered the second favorite team of a large number of current and former students, myself included.

[Purple Haize]

The main reason for lack of posters is that message boards are a dying medium.

When things go well, we see huge pick ups in twitter followers and site traffic.

So you are saying that we have a bunch of twits

The other big reason we don't have new posters is because the overall stigma of the message board
I think it was PAMedic who compared it to his local Adult Bookstore. No one will admit to being there yet it still stays open and making money
Instead we should be viewed as the new coffee shop in town. Where once you go you find a lot of people have the same interests as you.

[lynchburgwildcats]

If LU keeps Layer another season, tells me all I need to know about how little the administration truly cares about putting a winning product on the court.

[huntandfish]

People relax Dale will be gone that is a done dill. He is by far one of the good guys out there and for some reason he could not get it done on Liberty Mtn. That does not mean he can't coach or he's not a DI coach. I do know this he will land on his feet and God does have a plan for him. You know of all the coaches at LU he is truly concerned about his players and their walk with Christ and if for nothing more he should at least be commended for that. After all that's what is important. Now that said Doc would let him go as well because his job is to win games and that has not happened and Dale knows that and expects it. Remember as a coach they all know they will get fired it's just a matter of time. But Dale is a good person with a heart for Christ. On that note if I were JB I would be in Boiling Spring all over Tim Craft, that cat can coach em up. As an alum we don't need a big name we need a coach that will grow the program and can coach with mid major talent.

[Rooster Cogburn]

It just seems that some folks are rather flippant about the fate of the 2nd winningest coach in program history.

[huntandfish]

I do understand but as a coach its what have you done for me within the last 24 hours esp with success all around. I think Dale knows it's coming. What a great man of God.

[jcmanson]

After the season is over, he deserves that. A change now is not going to help anything.

What has he done to deserve to stay until the end of the season? I agree he shouldn't be fired mid-season, but not because he's earned it.

Running a clean program that represents the school well.

I finally had a chance to sit down and write out a response to this. While I agree with what you're arguing (that Layer shouldn't be fired until the season is over) I disagree with "running a clean program that represents the school well" argument. Everyone keeps saying it and they need to stop.

"He runs a clean program" - There are 351 Division I programs. How many of those do you think "run clean programs?" I would argue 200+ as a low estimate. ANYBODY we hire for ANY position should run a clean program. If they don't, they should see the door. This shouldn't be an argument to keep anyone. This should be a given for anyone we employ, and there are countless options for people we could hire that would run a clean program.

"that represents the school well" - This is what really elicited the L O L response. Being the worst Division I program represents the school well? No. Layer's program is an embarrassment to the school. Conference commissioners and school presidents look at our program and laugh. Former players trash him and the program. Former players tell potential recruits to not come here. Former players excel because they have left Layer's program. He pits players against other players to serve his agenda. Layer used Sommy Ogukwe. He used him for a good mark towards APR numbers. He consistently sold him on playing time to come until he graduated then said he had no more room for him. This is one of many examples. Talk to JR Coronado. Talk to Davon Marshall. Talk to Casey Roberts. (I would put several other names here, but they've asked me to keep their name out of it). Layer has burned bridges with countless former players, those who played under him and those who came before him. You know who pays the most attention to our program? Division II and NAIA programs. Why? Because they're looking for their next star. You don't think Wes Alcegaire could help this team? Alcegaire is averaging 16.6 points and 5.6 boards a game for the best JUCO program in Florida. And he's not the first option on his team. One of his teammates is a high major recruit. Wes will leave this JUCO and play Division I basketball for a school much better than Liberty. Ask him what his motivation is. It's Dale Layer.

[huntandfish]

Wow, you have more inside info then me. I just know him at a different level ( I never played for him) was about to get to know him and some of his small groups friend when he was a different school. Rep the school well on my part was his stand for Christ. All that said I think everyone agrees he will be gone so now the question is who's next? Any thoughts? Are there any LU guys out there?

[bluejacket]

I finally had a chance to sit down and write out a response to this. While I agree with what you're arguing (that Layer shouldn't be fired until the season is over) I disagree with "running a clean program that represents the school well" argument. Everyone keeps saying it and they need to stop.

"He runs a clean program" - There are 351 Division I programs. How many of those do you think "run clean programs?" I would argue 200+ as a low estimate. ANYBODY we hire for ANY position should run a clean program. If they don't, they should see the door. This shouldn't be an argument to keep anyone. This should be a given for anyone we employ, and there are countless options for people we could hire that would run a clean program.

"that represents the school well" - This is what really elicited the L O L response. Being the worst Division I program represents the school well? No. Layer's program is an embarrassment to the school. Conference commissioners and school presidents look at our program and laugh. Former players trash him and the program. Former players tell potential recruits to not come here. Former players excel because they have left Layer's program. He pits players against other players to serve his agenda. Layer used Sommy Ogukwe. He used him for a good mark towards APR numbers. He consistently sold him on playing time to come until he graduated then said he had no more room for him. This is one of many examples. Talk to JR Coronado. Talk to Davon Marshall. Talk to Casey Roberts. (I would put several other names here, but they've asked me to keep their name out of it). Layer has burned bridges with countless former players, those who played under him and those who came before him. You know who pays the most attention to our program? Division II and NAIA programs. Why? Because they're looking for their next star. You don't think Wes Alcegaire could help this team? Alcegaire is averaging 16.6 points and 5.6 boards a game for the best JUCO program in Florida. And he's not the first option on his team. One of his teammates is a high major recruit. Wes will leave this JUCO and play Division I basketball for a school much better than Liberty. Ask him what his motivation is. It's Dale Layer.

For the most part, I am hearing similar things and I don't disagree with what you are saying. But I would take what the players are saying with more than a grain of salt. Of course, I am confident that you have.

[4everfsu]

Two years ago

[Rooster Cogburn]

And I'm the one losing Credibility? wow

[Purple Haize]

It just seems that some folks are rather flippant about the fate of the 2nd winningest coach in program history.

He's proably been here the 2nd longest as well

[TIMSCAR20]

I like Dale Layer the man. He is a GREAT representative of Christ and that shouldn't be under-valued. Dale Layer the coach has not had a lot of success in recent years and that is troublesome. THIS season is simply an embarrassment. This team is just bad. Offensively challenged is an understatement. I know everyone on this staff and I count them as friends. I am one of the few people on this board that 1. is not anonymous and 2. is in the public eye and 3. have a vested interest in this program as a person who's shoulders this program is sitting on as a member of the 1st division 1 team and a builder of the foundation.

I know I don't have to establish credibility with most on this board but I felt it helps to say all I said in the 1st paragraph. I AM AMAZED at how LOW the bar is set for our basketball Program! I would say the same thing if my good friend Paul Nazigian was the coach. I would say it if I was the coach. Liberty is one of the worst programs in America! That means there needs to be change. I know that is harsh but it is truth. I was on a staff that the head coach was removed in the off season after a school record 23 wins! Now if we simply DON'T LOSE 23 games it is seen as a good sign? I want Liberty to compete for Championships, upset power conference teams, set attendance records in the Big South, have quality TV production and be a program that everyone knows and talks about in a positive light. WE couldn't be further from that and that means a change needs to be made. Financially Coach Layer will be set. He gets the rest of his contract money and he will have a job in 5 minutes not because he knows Buzz Williams but because he is a highly respected Coach that knows basketball despite how things have turned out the past few years. All of us have tried things and failed. Most don't do it in a public forum but most don't do it for a quarter of a million dollars a year either.

I know and Love my man Rooster but I think it is time that even you and the so called cool-aid drinkers have to admit that things need to change.

To those that think it will take 10 years to turn the program around, there are dozens of examples of programs turning around in 1 season including at Liberty in 1992. ODU won 5 games two years ago. This past week they were in the top 25! Jeff Jones is a good coach but it is the nature of hoops. A new coach and a couple of recruits and you would be amazed how quickly things can turn in a positive direction.

There is 0 need to remove Dale before the end of the season. No point. but truthfully it would make Jeff Barber look a little suspect if he doesn't make a chance the way things are going. I believe in Barber and his commitment to winning in ALL Sports. Time to make Liberty a BASKETBALL SCHOOL once again.

[BJWilliams]

Liberty shouldnt be a "basketball school" or a "football school" or a "baseball school" or any one sport...Liberty should be a school where regardless of what sport you name, Liberty should be in the discussion as one of the best at that sport

[SuperJon]

I like Dale Layer the man. He is a GREAT representative of Christ and that shouldn't be under-valued.

This is what I mean by represents the school well. I can't speak to the other things because I haven't been around enough. With as bad as things are, if it hasn't happened already, there's no loss that would be bad enough for us to remove Layer before the end of the season.

[NG33]

Thanks for posting that Scar. Layer's time is up. I thank him for the Big South Championship and NCAA tournament appearance, but two straight 20 loss seasons (and an 18 loss one the year before) should be more than enough reason for a coaching change. Not to mention how badly this year has gone.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Scar, respect you deeply, but I stand by my statements.

The negativity on this board is at an all time high. Even in the middle of the FB season, some were calling for Gill's head. They were wrong, and this BB season isn't over either. I'm just going to need a break. I'm a fan, and find it both odd and disturbing how I and others have been ridiculed and even insulted here lately.

and to whomever called Layer a Fool earlier.......Matthew 5:22. It's in the Bible.

[Purple Haize]

Scar, respect you deeply, but I stand by my statements.

The negativity on this board is at an all time high. Even in the middle of the FB season, some were calling for Gill's head. They were wrong, and this BB season isn't over either. I'm just going to need a break. I'm a fan, and find it both odd and disturbing how I and others have been ridiculed and even insulted here lately.

and to whomever called Layer a Fool earlier.......Matthew 5:22. It's in the Bible.

You think you are the only one who has been insulted and ridiculed? Child please.
Do you think there might possibly be a REASON why negativity is at an all time high? A 3rd 20 loss season maybe?
FB hadnt proven anything until this year. I was/am/have been HCTG fan. I took hits for it but I kept at it and you didn't hear me cry.
2 years ago, after the Miracle run to the NCAA Tournament MBB had its chance. But last year brought us another 20 loss season and we are on pace to exceed that this year. Eventually, you have to realize you are who you are. And we are a team that has lost over 70 games, let me repeat for emphasis 70 games, in the last 3 1/2 years. Re read my posts from last year. I was hoping for 'addition by subtraction'. Didn't happen.
You are so Gung ho, give the people who want Layer fired a reason to change their minds

[ballcoach15]

Scar: Excellent post above.

[BJWilliams]

Im as pro-Liberty as they come...some might say to the point of neurosis RC...that said, sometimes you gotta do what's in the best interest of a person or program, and frankly I think moving on from coach Layer is in that best interest.

While I do not agree that denigrating those who disagree with you is the right way to handle yourself, even on a message board...(and I offer apologies to those I have done that to...you know who you are...)you do have to understand the high level of frustration that a lot of people have at the lack of advancement by the men's basketball team in the 10 years between conference championships.