[ballcoach15]

71-54 Final

[jcmanson]

Rapid Reactions
http://www.libertyflamesnation.com/rapi ... asheville/

[Equinox]

Dale must gooooooo!!!!!! Dale must gooooooo!!!!
- substitute the Florida State chant and tomahawk chop with Layer’s name, and we’ll have a great chant for the rest of this agonizing season.

[flamesfan30]

we could chant single digits clap-----clap--clap--clap--clap! people wouldnt know if were referring to the temperature or our number of wins.

[JakeP50]

Welp, another double digit loss. This has reached Sixers levels of apathy, I just don't care if the team wins or losses anymore. I had more fun at my high school alumni game than I do watching this team, and we were barely trying. When the alumni game of a high school that has produced two D3 and a handful of JUCO players is more exciting than a NCAA Division 1 game something needs to be done.

Ok mini-rant over and #FireLayer

[adam42381]

It's going to be hilarious if this team somehow makes a run in the Big South Tournament and Layer is brought back yet again. Seriously though, if Layer isn't fired after this year, do people start questioning Barber's competence?

[Purple Haize]

It's going to be hilarious if this team somehow makes a run in the Big South Tournament and Layer is brought back yet again. Seriously though, if Layer isn't fired after this year, do people start questioning Barber's competence?

Do we have any official word on how much longer DL has on his contract?

[jcmanson]

Lang said a year ago that there was 3 years left. So, now there's 2 left - this year and next.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I'm going to post this knowing no one will listen. I know you are all convinced Layer is a bad coach, and that is fine. I tend to disagree, though I do take issue with a philosophical item here or there and I'm very disappointed with the outcome of the last few years. most of you continue to say he can't recruit. I will submit that he is not the only LU basketball coach that has had a tough time recruiting here. and those who have recruited well have in turn lost most of those top recruits. He is also not the only LU coach who has struggled to turn the corner to a consistent winning program. Since the Meyer era there have been a year or 2 of big success followed by mediocrity followed by a bad year or 2 followed by more success. It's cyclical. It's reality.

I'm not saying he should or should not be fired. I don't know. I do know he's a real guy with a real life and Family and find it funny how some here easily toss him into the trash heap. Be careful what you ask for. I would hope we could go find someone better who would stay for a while and build it up with recruits that would stay but I'm just not sure it's so easy to find that guy/situation.

Anyway go back to your angry job, just pointing out that today's ncaa basketball isn't as easy as some seem to think. It's a process. And at LU the process can be slightly more tough.

[olldflame]

Lang said a year ago that there was 3 years left. So, now there's 2 left - this year and next.

That is my understanding as well. At this point the contract should not be a factor in the decision. Schools with nowhere near our resources routinely eat that last year if they believe a change is needed. In this day and age, not renewing a contract entering the final year is considered a vote of no confidence, and is a recruiting nightmare.

As a Homer of the Year nominee, I am going to say something that may shock some people. A few more losses without some genuinely positive results, and I would not be upset to see DL let go mid-season, especially if Barber named Omar Mance as interim coach. I think Omar is destined to be a HC some day, and of our 3 assistants would be the most likely to inject some positive energy into the team and turn things around for the rest of the year. If that happened he might merit consideration for the permanent job. I doubt JB would do it, but I would support him if he did.

[Chris Lang]

Closing thoughts:

http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liber ... 53f11.html

[Purple Haize]

Closing thoughts:

http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liber ... 53f11.html

I am now labeling Andrew Smith as a thug. He does stuff like that every game and is t 1/3 as good as he thinks he is

As for other posts, Layer is a good coach and has proven that he can recruit at the D2 level and that's awesome. I don't see any indication that it has ever been as to translate to the D1 level and that's the rub. He fits just about everything LU wants in a coach except making his team respectable.
DL is coaching at the D1 level and part of that is greater scrutiny of your abity to coach and more people saying you should be fired. It's part of the business at ANY LEVEL. Yes he has a family etc, every coach does. It's the nature of the beast. No one is wishing Ill upon him or his family. And what DL has that almost no other coach has is a guaranteed job if he ever loses this one.
Finally, I would still not be surprised to see him back next year. Buying his contract out would cost about 800,000. Then you have to pay your new coach which will be around 300,000 to 400,000 That's an investment of neau $1 million dollars next year in the MBB program.

[olldflame]

Closing thoughts:

http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liber ... 53f11.html

I am now labeling Andrew Smith as a thug. He does stuff like that every game and is t 1/3 as good as he thinks he is

As for other posts, Layer is a good coach and has proven that he can recruit at the D2 level and that's awesome. I don't see any indication that it has ever been as to translate to the D1 level and that's the rub. He fits just about everything LU wants in a coach except making his team respectable.
DL is coaching at the D1 level and part of that is greater scrutiny of your abity to coach and more people saying you should be fired. It's part of the business at ANY LEVEL. Yes he has a family etc, every coach does. It's the nature of the beast. No one is wishing Ill upon him or his family. And what DL has that almost no other coach has is a guaranteed job if he ever loses this one.
Finally, I would still not be surprised to see him back next year. Buying his contract out would cost about 800,000. Then you have to pay your new coach which will be around 300,000 to 400,000 That's an investment of neau $1 million dollars next year in the MBB program.

No one should feel sorry for Dale Layer. I don't see where you get the $800,000 figure though. He only has one year left after this one.

[ballcoach15]

Other sports at LU recruit well. BB should be able to also.

[jcmanson]

So which one of you started the @IsLayerFired twitter account?

[Purple Haize]

Closing thoughts:

http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liber ... 53f11.html

I am now labeling Andrew Smith as a thug. He does stuff like that every game and is t 1/3 as good as he thinks he is

As for other posts, Layer is a good coach and has proven that he can recruit at the D2 level and that's awesome. I don't see any indication that it has ever been as to translate to the D1 level and that's the rub. He fits just about everything LU wants in a coach except making his team respectable.
DL is coaching at the D1 level and part of that is greater scrutiny of your abity to coach and more people saying you should be fired. It's part of the business at ANY LEVEL. Yes he has a family etc, every coach does. It's the nature of the beast. No one is wishing Ill upon him or his family. And what DL has that almost no other coach has is a guaranteed job if he ever loses this one.
Finally, I would still not be surprised to see him back next year. Buying his contract out would cost about 800,000. Then you have to pay your new coach which will be around 300,000 to 400,000 That's an investment of neau $1 million dollars next year in the MBB program.

No one should feel sorry for Dale Layer. I don't see where you get the $800,000 figure though. He only has one year left after this one.

I misread an earlier post thinking he had 2 years after this. But apparently it's just 1 year after this. That makes it 50/50 IMO. He's making close to 400k and a new coach will make about that so that's a 1 year 800k investment in the MBB program. More durable than $1 million +

[Purple Haize]

So which one of you started the @IsLayerFired twitter account?

I barely know how to operate in the Twitter verse so it's not me. I am now following Lang though! I'm just not sure how it works

[VAGolf]

Dear God, if the man gets fired, he will still get paid through his contract. He isn't going to be homeless if we let go of him. Layer's recruiting strategy has been centered around Juco kids and zero local recruits. Either build me something substantial or draw in local interest. Additionally, that tournament run from a couple of seasons ago was the most bizarre week in LU sports.

The moment I was done with Layer was during half-time of our game with High Point during tha tournament run. I'll never forget taking a water break in my changing room, which was adjacent to the locker room and hearing dancing and chanting. I could hear everything going on in that room and the only thing Layer said at the half was, "Let's do the same in the second." There isn't one great coach that I'm aware of who would have allowed a locker room to get to that during the half-time of a game, regardless of the lead. High Point outscored us by 16 in the second half of that game and had a chance to win it with just a few seconds left.

On top of that, in every other year that Layer has been here, this team has been absolutely dreadful. I've said this before but how can you not be bothered by his son getting minutes in D1 games? Ethan wouldn't play for many solid D2 programs. My uncle coached Ethan at JV and said he didn't even like starting the kid. Even then, his only ability was shooting. The fact that he plays on this team is an absolute joke and should show you the level of care that Dale has for this team.

[Purple Haize]

I'll disagree. He was a pretty solid player at LCA and I could see him having a good career at the D2 level

[adam42381]

Not competence. Just commitment to winning.

Are the two not related when it comes to the job of Athletics Director?

[bballfan84]

I'm going to post this knowing no one will listen. I know you are all convinced Layer is a bad coach, and that is fine. I tend to disagree, though I do take issue with a philosophical item here or there and I'm very disappointed with the outcome of the last few years. most of you continue to say he can't recruit. I will submit that he is not the only LU basketball coach that has had a tough time recruiting here. and those who have recruited well have in turn lost most of those top recruits. He is also not the only LU coach who has struggled to turn the corner to a consistent winning program. Since the Meyer era there have been a year or 2 of big success followed by mediocrity followed by a bad year or 2 followed by more success. It's cyclical. It's reality.

I'm not saying he should or should not be fired. I don't know. I do know he's a real guy with a real life and Family and find it funny how some here easily toss him into the trash heap. Be careful what you ask for. I would hope we could go find someone better who would stay for a while and build it up with recruits that would stay but I'm just not sure it's so easy to find that guy/situation.

Anyway go back to your angry job, just pointing out that today's ncaa basketball isn't as easy as some seem to think. It's a process. And at LU the process can be slightly more tough.

This is hilarious..I have a real life..family..im a strong Christian but if I suck at doing my job you can bet my boss is letting me go. This is a business man!! He has been given plenty of time to turn the program around. As much as I hated Dunton that dude brought in some serious recruits..I am pretty sure at 30 I could play on thiis team and get some serious PT..this team SUCKS. Combine the talent with bad coaching and this is what you get..its time to move on

[bluejacket]

This is lunacy. Apples, meet oranges. The comparisons to eras when the school was nearly bankrupt have to stop. We can pretend like things aren't any worse in the Vines than they have been, but anyone that pays any attention whatsoever knows that is absolute crap. I can think of one era that compares, and that was the Hanky era. We were a putrid team then. We were broke then. We didn't have an AD then.

What is the excuse now? People (Gibson, Meyer, Dunton, McKay) have all done WAY more with less. Look at a list of every D1 school in the country. Then look at their facilities, their budgets, their teams. Plenty of Christian schools with rules, you have a Mormon school with rules, you have lots of schools with barely high school level facilities, you have elite ivy league schools with high admission standards, you have elite level P5 programs with tons of resources, you have elite mid majors with strong fan support on mediocre budgets. What do they all have in common? They are ALL better than us. Every single one of them.

Who do we have the most in common with institutionally? The big budget, elite P5's. THAT IS PATHETIC. There is no excuse for the lack of talent here. Blame the rules, but how are we recruiting well at other sports? Tell me how basketball is different? It is EASIER to be good at basketball than any of the other team sports. Just ONE or TWO talented players would mean a top 3 Big South finish. We don't have that. We don't have anything. We have THE WORST program in college basketball. This is a different era than a decade ago, and there is no excuse for it. It has to end now.

[BJWilliams]

I will begin by saying that I like coach Layer. I got to meet him a couple times and came away like I had been with a friend. I would list him as a job reference if I knew him a little better. That said, I think a change was needed at the head man about a year ago maybe more if not for the magical tournament run. I would probably bring him into the office and let him know his contract is not being renewed. I would let him finish out the season and let his players know AFTER THE FINAL GAME and start the search for a replacement immediately that way the transition can be as seamless as possible and they have as much time as possible getting a staff together and out recruiting

[Purple Haize]

This is hilarious..I have a real life..family..im a strong Christian but if I suck at doing my job you can bet my boss is letting me go. This is a business man!! He has been given plenty of time to turn the program around. As much as I hated Dunton that dude brought in some serious recruits..I am pretty sure at 30 I could play on thiis team and get some serious PT..this team SUCKS. Combine the talent with bad coaching and this is what you get..its time to move on

Jeff Meyer. Rules are rules!

And you don't even have to suck at your job to be let go. Happens to people every day. Most of whom aren't making 400k

[ballcoach15]

BuryYourDuke: Excellent post above. best post I have seen on this board.

We have less talent than any school in D1. No excuse for that, other than bad recruiting. Bring in some real D1 players. We should be able to recruit as well as anyone in Big South.