[bballfan84]

Why is it every time someone offers a opinion that is not in lock step with the LU emloyee puppet yes men, they are labeled either as "ToC" or "Randy". Is it really that hard for you to accept that there are many people out there discusted by the direction of the basketball team. Trust me....every one of those empty seats at the game represents someone who has some issues with how things are handled. How else do you explain why there are thousands of LU alumni in the L'Burg area who are huge sports fans, but rarely attend a basketball game. Why is the "Baptist" side SO empty with a town full of BAPTISTS ?

You talk just like him..and you seem to have knowledge of ToC/Dunton after only being apart of this board for a couple days. Show us your face

[BJWilliams]

Why is it every time someone offers a opinion that is not in lock step with the LU emloyee puppet yes men, they are labeled either as "ToC" or "Randy". Is it really that hard for you to accept that there are many people out there discusted by the direction of the basketball team. Trust me....every one of those empty seats at the game represents someone who has some issues with how things are handled. How else do you explain why there are thousands of LU alumni in the L'Burg area who are huge sports fans, but rarely attend a basketball game. Why is the "Baptist" side SO empty with a town full of BAPTISTS ?

Because they don't care about athletics ? They have other things to do with their time? They don't like the parking situation? There are thousands of reasons why people don't come to games. When exactly were we ever having sell out attendance?
And why should we trust you? We don't know you. You haven't posted very much. And you come in condemning those who have a differing opinion of you. Not exactly trust garnering steps.

Add to that the fact that your diction and commentary are very similar to that of ToC who has been banned from this board (multiple times) for basically corrupting every single discussion in the basketball forum with the same dog and pony show, so much so that people actually stop posting because they are tired of it (especially the admins Sly and El Scorcho)

[ProudLUAlum]

Why not try to find answers to the questions....l(like the above attendance question) instead of just telling me I sound like someone who was banned for corrupting discussions. How is this currupting anything. We need to get to the bottom of how to increase student support, alumni support, and community support.

It is not going to happen by just sitting around and convincing ourselves that everything is ok !

[LUconn]

We have this discussion every year it's a problem. And the answer is always "winning".

[bballfan84]

Why not try to find answers to the questions....l(like the above attendance question) instead of just telling me I sound like someone who was banned for corrupting discussions. How is this currupting anything. We need to get to the bottom of how to increase student support, alumni support, and community support.

It is not going to happen by just sitting around and convincing ourselves that everything is ok !

If you truly arent ToC or Coach D..then i apologize..it just seemed coincidental to me and sounded all too familiar. There are questions that need to be addressed however I am not ready to address them until the Big South games start. At our level that is all that matters at this point. The Big South is not getting an at large bid period. Win the conference thats what its all about..if we dont perform well in conference then its time to voice my questions

[GillsHill2013]

I dont know much about TOC or RD but i think we should quit wining about them and get to the root of the problem....our program is going in the wrong direction and it is clearly evident. My first semester at liberty Fall 2010 attendance was ok, 2011 it was so so, and this year so far it has been awful...

[ProudLUAlum]

Bball....I am a LU alumni...Of course I know who RD is. I dont know who ToC is, but I do know a bunch of you guy hate him.

I do think it is funny that many of you think RD comes on here and posts 5 years after being fired...If that is true....WOW !!!

[bballfan84]

Bball....I am a LU alumni...Of course I know who RD is. I dont know who ToC is, but I do know a bunch of you guy hate him.

I do think it is funny that many of you think RD comes on here and posts 5 years after being fired...If that is true....WOW !!!

I played for him back in the day and this board normally gets ruined bc ToC aka RD always bring up the RD regime and is constantly negative and rehashing things that happened 7 years ago. I think it would be HILARIOUS and pathetic if it actually was him. I am for the most part joking about it really being him but a small part wouldnt surprise me.

[jcrew4]

I know some of you cant wait for the team to win one of thoses cup-cake games, end the schools worst ever 0-8 start, and get on here and talk about how the team is getting better. Gosh, some of you are even optimistic about the LOSS to Georgia State. You feel good about the progress they are making. Hogwash ----- this team SUCKS !

Stats don't lie. These four stats tell you few things. One thing it shows is how bad the coaching must be prior to the game. During practice, during preperation. I don't care how bad you are you can make free throws if you practice them. To shoot 63% from the FT line is ridiculous. That you can improve with work. And to turn the ball over as much as they do is just careless.
According to the Big South Conf.
FT% .639 11th out of 12 teams - lots of things you can't control. This one, you can. If we were shooting 80% would we have won a game by now?
Field Goal % - .378 12th out of 12. This almost seem unbelieveable.
3 pt % -.366 1st of 12
Turnover margin - 16.5 turnovers a game - 11th out of 12 - this is another one that's hard to believe.

Also if you check the stats you'll see really one guy bringing the FT% down = Cornado. But what are you going to do NOT play him? Of course not. The rest of the guys are shooting them well..

I didnt check individual stats, just team stats. When I watched them the other day I noticed they missed alot of them which lead me to look. I just don't see how you can win games when you can't hit the easy free throws and you give the ball away 16.5 times a game. I'm not a coach but it would seem to me that those are the easy basics. When your 0-8 or even 1-8 don't you fall back to the basics? If you hit the easy shots, the free ones, and don't give the ball away 16 times a game your bound to win more. I think I saw that we've lost 3 games by a total of 11 pts. Hit your FT's and cut your TO's in half and I bet you win those 3 games. Surely a professional coach would notice that and focus on it. Then again, maybe he wouldn't.

[thepostman]

We won. National championship is next!

[Purple Haize]

Actually, stats can lie.

[jcrew4]

Actually, stats can lie.

Generally only in politics. Basketball is pretty simple isn't it?

[Purple Haize]

Actually, stats can lie.

Generally only in politics. Basketball is pretty simple isn't it?

Not really. It's situational a lot of the times.

[thepostman]

Stats can always be manipulated to tell the story you want told.

[jcrew4]

Actually, stats can lie.

Generally only in politics. Basketball is pretty simple isn't it?

Not really. It's situational a lot of the times.

Well yes you could say its situational but at the same time I think its a simple game. There's certain things that winning teams do and things losing teams do. That being said, You've convinced me with a little research that atleast in the first 10 games stats possibly don't tell the whole truth. I guess we'll see what they say later in the year. The reason I say that. I looked at 3 conferences and their stats for FT and TO's. ACC, Big East, and Big Ten. Interesting results.

ACC
FT - VA Tech - 78% (best) 7-0 record
UNC - 61% (worst) 6-2 record
TO - Clemson 9.3 (best) 5-2 record
Maryland 15.6 (worst) 6-1 record

Big East
FT Uconn - 77% 6-2 record
Cincy - 62% 7-0 record
TO Pitt - 9.1 7-1 record
Villanova - 16.1 4-3 record

Big Ten
FT Indiana 75% 8-0 record
Purdue 65% 4-4 record

TO Ohio State 9.3 5-1 record
Minn. 15.3 9-1 record


STATS LIE! Except at Liberty, Purdue, and Villanova.

[Purple Haize]

Ha! My point was this. Say a kid is 3-5 from 3 pt land. Pretty solid but his team is down and he has to take 4 3pts at the end under pressure and misses all 4. He finishes 3-9. Is it the shooter or the shots?
FTs are sort of different. But if you see someone is shooting 50% could mean they are just 1-2. Or you have a kid who is 9-9 but woth .01 to go in down 1 they miss the front end of a 1-1. Effectively missing two shots and losing the game. Yet their stats say he shot 90%. Conversely you have a kid 0-8 in the same situation but makes both and win the games. Yet the stats say he was 2-8.

[BJWilliams]

Ha! My point was this. Say a kid is 3-5 from 3 pt land. Pretty solid but his team is down and he has to take 4 3pts at the end under pressure and misses all 4. He finishes 3-9. Is it the shooter or the shots?
FTs are sort of different. But if you see someone is shooting 50% could mean they are just 1-2. Or you have a kid who is 9-9 but woth .01 to go in down 1 they miss the front end of a 1-1. Effectively missing two shots and losing the game. Yet their stats say he shot 90%. Conversely you have a kid 0-8 in the same situation but makes both and win the games. Yet the stats say he was 2-8.

Purple makes an excellent point. the boxscores or stat records dont tell the whole story. Sometimes you have to go beyond the stat sheets and look at the deeper context. Take this for example:

One of my favorite stats to use for a number of years has been that Liberty has won (I forget what the number is now exactly) I think 45 games in a row scoring 30 or more points at home. That may seem impressive, but if you look a little deeper, a lot of those games were against either DII or lower competition or really bad DI teams (including conference games).

It pays to not just take numbers and boxscores at face value jcrew

[jcrew4]

Ha! My point was this. Say a kid is 3-5 from 3 pt land. Pretty solid but his team is down and he has to take 4 3pts at the end under pressure and misses all 4. He finishes 3-9. Is it the shooter or the shots?
FTs are sort of different. But if you see someone is shooting 50% could mean they are just 1-2. Or you have a kid who is 9-9 but woth .01 to go in down 1 they miss the front end of a 1-1. Effectively missing two shots and losing the game. Yet their stats say he shot 90%. Conversely you have a kid 0-8 in the same situation but makes both and win the games. Yet the stats say he was 2-8.

You make a great point. I guess you do need to look deeper into most stats. I'm curious though, how do you label 16.5 turnovers a game? Christian kind of thing to do? Very giving team? Ha- ha Hey, if Layer doesn't work out there's always Isaiah Thomas? Actually, maybe I'll start that rumor and see how many pickup on it.

[jcrew4]

Ha! My point was this. Say a kid is 3-5 from 3 pt land. Pretty solid but his team is down and he has to take 4 3pts at the end under pressure and misses all 4. He finishes 3-9. Is it the shooter or the shots?
FTs are sort of different. But if you see someone is shooting 50% could mean they are just 1-2. Or you have a kid who is 9-9 but woth .01 to go in down 1 they miss the front end of a 1-1. Effectively missing two shots and losing the game. Yet their stats say he shot 90%. Conversely you have a kid 0-8 in the same situation but makes both and win the games. Yet the stats say he was 2-8.

Purple makes an excellent point. the boxscores or stat records dont tell the whole story. Sometimes you have to go beyond the stat sheets and look at the deeper context. Take this for example:

One of my favorite stats to use for a number of years has been that Liberty has won (I forget what the number is now exactly) I think 45 games in a row scoring 30 or more points at home. That may seem impressive, but if you look a little deeper, a lot of those games were against either DII or lower competition or really bad DI teams (including conference games).

It pays to not just take numbers and boxscores at face value jcrew

So one could say, Stats lie and Liars use stats??? But were does that put statisticians? Actually that summary is an old phrase from the Sales 101 world. Numbers lie and liars use numbers referring to general product they are selling.

[Purple Haize]

Ha! My point was this. Say a kid is 3-5 from 3 pt land. Pretty solid but his team is down and he has to take 4 3pts at the end under pressure and misses all 4. He finishes 3-9. Is it the shooter or the shots?
FTs are sort of different. But if you see someone is shooting 50% could mean they are just 1-2. Or you have a kid who is 9-9 but woth .01 to go in down 1 they miss the front end of a 1-1. Effectively missing two shots and losing the game. Yet their stats say he shot 90%. Conversely you have a kid 0-8 in the same situation but makes both and win the games. Yet the stats say he was 2-8.

You make a great point. I guess you do need to look deeper into most stats. I'm curious though, how do you label 16.5 turnovers a game? Christian kind of thing to do? Very giving team? Ha- ha Hey, if Layer doesn't work out there's always Isaiah Thomas? Actually, maybe I'll start that rumor and see how many pickup on it.

The turnovers again are dependent on the game or style of play. If you are going to run an up tempo system and create a lot of possessions, then 16.5 is a number you can live with. Especially if you are creating 20+. If you are a team that likes a slower tempo like Wisconsin or the 'other' BB team on the Mountain then that's a lot of turnovers. Or if you are a control team playing a pressing team you will probably have more turnovers but due to the number of possessions you can live with it. Obviously, the fewer turnovers the better, it's just a matter of pain thresh hold.

Of course this is only based on the Upward Coaching books I read

[BJWilliams]

Statisticians still do their job, but you have to bear in mind that when you look at the stat sheets or the boxscores after the fact, if you weren't there or you didn't watch the game in some capacity, you don't see the whole story of how the game played out.

To go back to PH's examples, if you look at that player that went 3-9 but started 3-5, if you simply look at the 3-9 and dont consider how he got to that number in the game, youd think he had a pretty average night. but if you actually look at the game and see that he was trying to shoot his team back into the game (after starting 3-5), you see that he started out very well, but tried to carry the team on his back and bring them back in the game and the shots weren't falling.

To use a different example, if you have a player that makes say...200 three pointers in a season (which would break the all-division record for men's basketball), youd think they were pretty impressive...but when you look deeper and see it was on 1400 attempts and came in a system where you shot a lot of them, its still impressive (as PH said in the Grinnell discussion, you stll have to make the shots), but it gives some context to how it came about

[Purple Haize]

Best quote I've heard. Are you a 30% shooter or are you taking 30% shots?
FT's are a bit different. That's pretty much all on the shooter and getting repetition and muscle memory. Then you can have other factors like how mentally tough they are and something like hand size

[Cider Jim]

muscle memory?

[flamehunter]

My muscles have dementia.

[Purple Haize]

muscle memory?

It's an exercise science thing you wouldn't understand!