[sporter]

After watching the teams over the past couple of years, I believe it is clear that the pure athletic/basketball talent is not where the decent mid-major type programs are (not just comparing to Big South teams). I have thought that one of two things need to happen - either Layer is able to recruit more athletic guys that also fit the school environment, or he switches to more of a screening/shot creating offense (Princeton type or something related). I know this is a little off thread but our current offense seems better suited for scorers that create their own shot (pass around the perimeter until someone takes their man) vs a structured, passing set.

Not that we have been horrible, evidenced by being second in the conference last year, just not in position to take that next step.

[grm]

By now, it's all kind of humerous. Bottom line is the future. No doubt, no argument.
And that is what a true fan is looking to.

grm...I believe the only ones laughing are the opponents

Know what you mean, but the "lurking" stuff and the guys (like me) who carry a little edge relative to a certain administrator and who treasure our own fond memories (at least in our minds) of days of yore, is more my point.

That's why the man said that this thread could "degenerate", and to that, I'm saying that maybe, at least with one another, we can laugh, knowing how we respectively see the thing. I'm tired of going at each other's throats, and hopefully they are too. Time to support the players, as SLY said, and to look to the future, as someone else said.

[truthorconsequences]

By now, it's all kind of humerous. Bottom line is the future. No doubt, no argument.
And that is what a true fan is looking to.

grm...I believe the only ones laughing are the opponents

Know what you mean, but the "lurking" stuff and the guys (like me) who carry a little edge relative to a certain administrator and who treasure our own fond memories (at least in our minds) of days of yore, is more my point.

That's why the man said that this thread could "degenerate", and to that, I'm saying that maybe, at least with one another, we can laugh, knowing how we respectively see the thing. I'm tired of going at each other's throats, and hopefully they are too. Time to support the players, as SLY said, and to look to the future, as someone else said.

The players are supported by all 500 fans in attendance and as Manson said our reduced roster of posters. GRM, you can choose to join the ff who wear rose colored glasses and laugh but through my contact lenses the past looks real good. Hope we see improvement tomorrow.

[olldflame]

After watching the teams over the past couple of years, I believe it is clear that the pure athletic/basketball talent is not where the decent mid-major type programs are (not just comparing to Big South teams). I have thought that one of two things need to happen - either Layer is able to recruit more athletic guys that also fit the school environment, or he switches to more of a screening/shot creating offense (Princeton type or something related). I know this is a little off thread but our current offense seems better suited for scorers that create their own shot (pass around the perimeter until someone takes their man) vs a structured, passing set.

Not that we have been horrible, evidenced by being second in the conference last year, just not in position to take that next step.

John Brown and Sommy Ogukwe are exactly the kind of athletic players who fit in at LU you referred to. Hard to blame Layer because they are injured (unless you want to say that players are getting hurt because his pre-season workouts are too intense).

[truthorconsequences]

After watching the teams over the past couple of years, I believe it is clear that the pure athletic/basketball talent is not where the decent mid-major type programs are (not just comparing to Big South teams). I have thought that one of two things need to happen - either Layer is able to recruit more athletic guys that also fit the school environment, or he switches to more of a screening/shot creating offense (Princeton type or something related). I know this is a little off thread but our current offense seems better suited for scorers that create their own shot (pass around the perimeter until someone takes their man) vs a structured, passing set.

Not that we have been horrible, evidenced by being second in the conference last year, just not in position to take that next step.

John Brown and Sommy Ogukwe are exactly the kind of athletic players who fit in at LU you referred to. Hard to blame Layer because they are injured (unless you want to say that players are getting hurt because his pre-season workouts are too intense).

Who is responsible for the lack of talent?

[LUconn]

By now, it's all kind of humerous. Bottom line is the future. No doubt, no argument.
And that is what a true fan is looking to.

grm...I believe the only ones laughing are the opponents

Know what you mean, but the "lurking" stuff and the guys (like me) who carry a little edge relative to a certain administrator and who treasure our own fond memories (at least in our minds) of days of yore, is more my point.

That's why the man said that this thread could "degenerate", and to that, I'm saying that maybe, at least with one another, we can laugh, knowing how we respectively see the thing. I'm tired of going at each other's throats, and hopefully they are too. Time to support the players, as SLY said, and to look to the future, as someone else said.

I appreciate the old college try grm, but talking sense is futile.

[grm]

I appreciate the old college try grm, but talking sense is futile.

Yes, I have noticed some of that futility here from time to time over the years, but I guess I'm an optimist. I do believe that there is less animosity now then there once was, and btw, I don't believe Coach Layer deserves criticism.

But also, I believe it is fair to say that there was significant talent on the roster 4+ years ago, but that goes back to admistrative decisions that have absolutely nothing to do with the present players, coaches, or fans. It was told to the staff at that time that "people vote with their feet."
(a reference to attendance figures). I think that man misread the polls, but that's where we don't want to go. At this point, it's ancient history. Go Coach, go team, go a.d.!

[Chippy]

The effort is there

[Purple Haize]

Will we be a better team at the end of the year then we are now. I'm willing to give the staff the benefit of the doubt. While I have been skeptical of the players I'm seeing we sign, I THINK I see what they are trying to do. I'm hoping they are bringing in players they feel they can coach up. This is not an exciting thing to do, but we have tried to take short cuts in the past so this is definitely a different direction.
Unfortunately, neither of our basketball teams play an exciting/fan friendly brand of hoops right now

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

What most of us don’t like about “these people” LUconn is referring, is they’re too busy looking into the past. Where as a true fan is trying to look to the future.

I look to the past because thats when we won Big South Championships and were competitive... and when I look at the future its looking bad.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

I almost hate to start this thread because I know what will end up happening, but I feel something needs to be said. We have made no progress in our program for multiple years. Yes last year was a bright spot, but then we choked when it mattered. I don’t want to hear any excuses about injuries, etc. Everyone deals with those. But looking at our roster I see no:

Larry Blair
Dwight Brewington
Anthony Smith
David Dees
Gabe Martin
Kyle Ohman
Seth Curry
BJ Jenkins
Brolin Floyd
Alex McLean
TeeJay Bannister
The list goes on and on…

Do we have any that will be here next year?

Where is our talent? Are we trying to win the local church league or are we trying to win at the D1 level?

There’s no enthusiasm in this program. None. The Vines is desolate, cold, and quiet. We have game threads with 19, 20, 23, 26 posts when I make that many posts in my sleep.

I have a hard time convincing myself to make the 2 hour drive to watch the team play, and I love this University and its athletic program.

I think Layer is a good coach, but is he bringing in the talent to compete at this level? I feel he’s going to get a pass this year because of the injuries. I feel he’ll get a pass next year because we’re “rebuilding” after Jesse graduates.

I want to be able to brag on my school’s basketball program. I want to have a vested rooting interest deep into February. I want my wife to have to beg me to stop going to bball games.

Can I get a signature extension to put all of this in my signature?

[truthorconsequences]

Layer has been here 4 of last five years....in third as HC.

Eaker has been here for 7 or 8 years. Guillory exits prior to season.

Who is responsible for the the recruiting? Not enough of a recruiting budget, need a better facility, more media exposure We load up on excuses.

JB is missed 11 pts, 10 reb but struggled with turnovers (97), fts (55%) and only 1 3fga. Sommy gets characterized like we lost Patrick Ewing played 7 min a game 2 ppg 1 reb 1 block shot again struggled with turnovers, ft (20%). Where do they play...who comes off the floor? Certainly we are better with JB on the floor.

We lost 5 in a row to end the season with JB, Sommy and Evan. We lose at home to a pathetic W&M team.

We have unmatched $$$ resources in the BSC. Our AD paved the way to "big time athletics" yet we have not made FCS playoffs nor beat a CAA team in 6 six years and in opinion of many made a huge gaff with Asa Chapman (some die hards have walked away on that one). We use to cry "if we only had an automatic berth in football"...well we have for the past two years to no avail. We have gone backwards in hoops 1-4 BSC tournament record and currently 1-12 in last 13 D1 games.

We have expenses excuses these days.

I am not a doomist...i believe LU has all the ingredients...

[BJWilliams]

checkers is that you?

[grm]

[olldflame]

You're just now figuring that out BJ?

[grm]

I'm just wondering how many people on the Board remember Checkers... fondly or otherwise...

Pres. Nixon never really went away, and he made a great speech later referred to as his "Checkers" speech.

[Purple Haize]

TRUTH. You are mixing up football and basketball. Let's focus on basketball here.
You bring up some bvalid points about recruiting etc then fly off into an anti AD tirade.
I will give the MBB team credit for no major off court drama. And transferring out is not always a bad thing.

[BJWilliams]

You're just now figuring that out BJ?

I knew...I just wasnt sure if I should be the guy to bring it up...

[Sly Fox]

For the record, our recruiting has been strong over the past few years. Take a quick glance at players signed in the Layer Era:

• Evan Gordon
  Patrick Konan
  Chris Perez
  Antwan Burrus
  John Caleb Sanders
  Stephen Baird
  John Brown
  Tavares Speaks
  Sommy Ogukwe
  Chris Johnson
  Tomasz Gielo
  Drew Smith

You can add JVP who though he signed with McKay chose to stick with his letter after he found out Coaches Layer & Eaker would be there when he arrived.

And frankly, the four kids who just signed have potential with two of them likely to comes in as starters.

Recruiting has never been a problem under Dunton, McKay or Layer. Retention of athletes once they get on campus is a recurring problem.

[Cider Jim]

And frankly, the four kids who just signed have potential with two of them likely to comes in as starters.

Sly, of the 3 junior college kids, which 2 do you see as potential starters?

I'm guessing 6'8" Coronado (11 PPG), but not sure if your other starter is Andrews (12 PPG) or Donley (19 PPG).

http://www.libertyflames.com/index.cfm? ... ewsID=8039

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

• Evan Gordon- Wasn't that good.
  Patrick Konan- Had a lot of heart and hustle, but not good.
  Chris Perez- AWFUL
  Antwan Burrus
  John Caleb Sanders
  Stephen Baird- AWFUL thus far.
  John Brown
  Tavares Speaks- Jury is still out
  Sommy Ogukwe- Hasn't proven to be anything.
  Chris Johnson- Who is this?
  Tomasz Gielo- Hasn't played.
  Drew Smith- Sucks.

Im sorry Sly but this list does not even compare to the other list. We are recruiting guys and pumping them up but they just aren't anything that they are made out to be. If you buy into the hype for these guys then sure its about even, but when it comes to being on the floor, they don't compare.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

and I am not saying anything about them as people or talking bad about them. Incoming recruits don't count... We were really excited for that kid from FL who changed his mind and went to STETSON.

all I am doing is looking at the recruits in comparison, which is what this thread was created for in the first place.

[SumItUp]

made a huge gaff with Asa Chapman (some die hards have walked away on that

Yes, I agree 100%

[grm]

I honestly, honestly, do not know who truthorconsequences is, but I must say, it's a great
name... or whatever you call these things we go by.

[sporter]

And frankly, the four kids who just signed have potential with two of them likely to comes in as starters.

Sly, of the 3 junior college kids, which 2 do you see as potential starters?

I'm guessing 6'8" Coronado (11 PPG), but not sure if your other starter is Andrews (12 PPG) or Donley (19 PPG).

http://www.libertyflames.com/index.cfm? ... ewsID=8039

Looked up a few of the recruits yesterday. Andrews is averaging 21 pts a game (11th in nation), Donley averaging 6 pts (8th on his team), while Coronado, who seems to be the one with the most potential to start from day one, is not making his team's game summaries and the website did not give their stats.

Andrews and Coronado come in with the best chance to start right away at the point and down low.