[From the class of 09]

BREAKING NEWS: Liberty University drops expectations for men's basketball.

Despite the unprecedented spending by Athletic Director Jeff Barber to create a "mid major" power at Liberty University, after four years with a 1-4 Big South Conference Tournament record it was announce today that we are to be happy with our performance and headed in the right direction.

The 2010-2011 season was highlighted 13 wins in an expanded and weakened Big South Conference.
The 19 win total was bolstered by impressive victories over 3 non-Division 1 patsies Virginia Intermont, Southern Virginia and Union College. The markee wins for the season are over a Chicago St 6-24, Mississippi Valley 12-18 and William & Mary 9-21. Obviously we are closing the gap on mid-majors as George Mason and Iona came to The Furnace and defeated us only by a combined total of 50 pts.

No reason to be concerned that when teams are suppose to be playing their best we dropped 5 straight to end the great season.

Tuesday nights performance wildly exceeded expections in that Scott Cherry could bring his 3-16 two year road record to Vines Center and whip our tails. Thankfully we had the lowest attendance in LU history for a BSC tournament game. But our AD has delivered promotional efforts that are spectacular. Certainly with JB leading the way there are new levels of expectations to follow.

Maybe we can buy our way into another post season tournament.

Go away....
ps. BC looks good this year

[Schfourteenteen]

I actually enjoyed that. I'm always a fan of satire.

Why do people reference the Big South as down this year? That opinion is absolutely asinine.

[grm]

For my part, I'm speaking of Winthrop's years, especially when they won their first NCAA game, this after narrowly defeating VMI who had a future pro, who, in turn, had narrowly defeated LU (1pt).

[grm]

I actually enjoyed that. I'm always a fan of satire...

There is a touch of brilliance in his satire

[From the class of 09]

I'm no fan of someone who only comes around when things suit his opinions...but you have to admit there is at least SOME truth in what VThokie is saying right?

Truth in that we've under achieved this year in BBall (in the post season) and the last 2 maybe 3 in FB. But this IMO has nothing to do with Barber, while he hired both current coaches they have done outstanding jobs when you look at the body of work and where the program was before they started at Lib. He critizes JB for spending money on athletic upgrades when that is basically his job to raise and spend money to improve the position of the athletics department (I've noticed a few improvements). He acts like we are happy and satified with the current results when that simply isn't the case. Most of us just realize that you don't fire a coach simply because he lost a game he should have won. I can't think of any example of when firing a coach who goes 8-3 in any legue ends up helping the program.

However, I think they should fire beamer (both of them) over at VT I mean they lost to JMU and when's the last time they won a NC anyways?

[thepostman]

I'm no fan of someone who only comes around when things suit his opinions...but you have to admit there is at least SOME truth in what VThokie is saying right?

oh you're right there is a little bit of truth in what he says. I just completely disagree with how he goes about it. He doesn't like JB, never has and never will. He loves RD, always has always will. He has found it impossible to put aside those feelings to truly cheer for a school he claims to support and love.

I think JB is a great businessman/promotions guy, but maybe we should start into looking at the top to change the culture around here across the board. We have the biggest budget and some of the nicest facilities, why put money into all of these changes if we can not perform at a high level when it matters? This isn't just one sport, and because of that sometimes I wonder if maybe we should look more into evaluating from the top on down.

Not because of any other reason except I want the best for my school. I love liberty and want us to succeed

[Purple Haize]

FFG - I will echo SuperJon's comments. Again, you are just taking a snap shot and not looking at the whole picture. We did not do so well in the BS Tournament, which is disappointing. We DID finish second in the BSC regular season, which is pretty encouraging. So which do you lend more weight too? Also, we have had 3 coaches in your six year time frame. By way of comparison, how do other schools fair when they have had the same type of coaching turnover? ( I will say that Butler and Xavier have been the exeptions.) Very few coaches have success overnight.
IMO, here are the questions you should ask yourself as you do your soul searching:
1. Are we in better shape as a program now then when DL took over two years ago?
2. Are we heading in the "right direction" as a program with him as coach? i.e. Recruiting, scheduling, academics ets.
Basically, look where we started, look where we are and look at what the future has in store. If we are stagnant or in decline, you may have an issue.

(But I did hear that DL has stayed away from his office chair the last few days. I kid I kid.... he had an intern enter the office first )

[olldflame]

Nice Hanky reset Haize.

[Purple Haize]

Nice Hanky reset Haize.

[logic]

Only a fool would want JB replaced. He is the real deal and could be at any number of BCS schools as we speak. Let us not forget what he did at USC as an example. The AD's job is to give each and every head coach on campus what they need to win. He is getting the job done and will guide us to the FBS level in the near future.

Too many people in this thread living in the "now, now, now" mindset that plagues the 20 something generation. Everyone wants it done now and they don't want to put in their time. Classic get rich quick schemes are all the rage on this board at the moment. This is Layer's SECOND year with the program. Grow up!


Rome/day.

[jbock13]

BREAKING NEWS: Liberty University drops expectations for men's basketball.

Despite the unprecedented spending by Athletic Director Jeff Barber to create a "mid major" power at Liberty University, after four years with a 1-4 Big South Conference Tournament record it was announce today that we are to be happy with our performance and headed in the right direction.

The 2010-2011 season was highlighted 13 wins in an expanded and weakened Big South Conference.
The 19 win total was bolstered by impressive victories over 3 non-Division 1 patsies Virginia Intermont, Southern Virginia and Union College. The markee wins for the season are over a Chicago St 6-24, Mississippi Valley 12-18 and William & Mary 9-21. Obviously we are closing the gap on mid-majors as George Mason and Iona came to The Furnace and defeated us only by a combined total of 50 pts.

No reason to be concerned that when teams are suppose to be playing their best we dropped 5 straight to end the great season.

Tuesday nights performance wildly exceeded expections in that Scott Cherry could bring his 3-16 two year road record to Vines Center and whip our tails. Thankfully we had the lowest attendance in LU history for a BSC tournament game. But our AD has delivered promotional efforts that are spectacular. Certainly with JB leading the way there are new levels of expectations to follow.

Maybe we can buy our way into another post season tournament.

Seriously dude get off the board. Nobody cares about Tech, or your stupid whiny baby coach. When your little whiny whimpy Hokies are ready to play real teams, like West Virginia, let me know.

[jenkins]

Smooth, I couldn’t disagree more. Explain to me how it was not an embarrassment and black eye on the program. I’m not trying to be mean or harsh, just realistic
1-we get destroyed and thoroughly dominated by Iona on ESPN yet again. I got no less than 10-15 comments on facebook making fun of how bad we looked and with "all those empty seats". People are watching and keeping up with what’s going on. If I remember correctly you work in Roanoke like I do and I got laughed out of the building after that game by multiple customers as well. It’s the perception that we are “a small time Christian school that can’t reach the next level”. That’s fine if that’s our goal, but I think we all have higher ambitions than that
2 – we lose to a high pt team that is 3-16 on the road the last 2 years that is a 7 seed over a 2. We are the only higher seed to go down last night. Also, Scott Cherry was just acting like he won the national championship. That should tell you that it was a huge upset and he didn’t expect to win. Also, this re-enforces that we don’t perform in the tournament at all.
3- we go into the offseason with 5 losses in a row that could destroy the confidence of a young team. Now the whole summer will likely be spent questioning whether the successes were a fluke and which was the real LU team.
As far as expectations go; I think the season was about what I expected. We really didn’t beat anyone that good and we got smoked by other mid-majors like Mason and Iona that we would like to be as good is. In fact I don’t know what the marquee win on the schedule would be. I don’t blame Barber and I think Layer did a decent job. But I also agree 100% with BYD’s statement about apathy around the Christian circles. We shouldn’t be happy with last night, the coaches, players, and Barber aren’t going to be satisfied with that. The fact of the matter is that athletic departments and administrations are pushed to be better by fan bases that are passionate about their teams and demand excellencNow, athletics will never be our number 1 mission at this school and rightfully so but like JF said if it’s Christian it should be better. We can’t keep settling for these moral victories every year and say “let’s get em next year”.
Finally, it’s not your place to tell anyone to move on, smooth. In fact it’s because of statements like those that are the main reason why most of my friends and people I know won’t post on this board because your labeled a “hater” or told to “move on” if you disagree or make any definitive statement about the shape of the program. I want the school and teams to do well just as much as everyone else on here. However, I’m not going to ignore how embarrassing it is getting stomped on espn every time constantly under achieving in the conference tournament. Like I said, I think we are moving in the right direction but the last 5 games was a big step back in my book.

[bigsmooth]

jenkins, everyone is entitled to an opinion and i can certainly say for you to move on. whether you do or not is up to you, which i know you wont. it does not matter to me. losing a game on ESPN is not a black eye, losing to a team with a poor road record is not a black eye. we have played bad the last five games. i was not surprised. as for what other people say about LU...again, i could care less. i actually live in lynchburg now and still hear it from people who hate liberty but again, i do not care. the school and athletic department are growing and we will get better. i am not accepting mediocrity, but again the expecations of this team were low, and because we got on a good mid season run, a lot of expectations rose. i personally was never sold because he had the propensity to fall into bad play. it would have been nice to win but we didnt and we will get better. you are also assuming that the losing streak will hurt our confidence next year?? wow...do not even see how you can say that...and that is not a black eye either. i personally never said i was happy about last night. yeah it sucked but i am a realist....i told many before the game it would not surprise me if we lost. i do not disagree with BYD statement about apathy with Christians, but this is not a religious debate. i doubt you will find many that were not upset about the game, including players, coaches, administration, and fans. if your friends or whomever do not want to come on to FF, fine don't..its a message board and people disagree. it sounds like they need not be so thin skinned. as i have got older i try to stay out of these heated arguements because back in the early days of flamefans i was a jerk to some. the reason why we are all hear is because we love LU and want to support the school in anyway we can. all of us will never agree on everything. i simply get tired of the negativity and jumping off bridges because of a loss or calling for barber to be fired. i do think that a lot of the younger FF members are a part of the want it now generation. if you feel like i wronged you by saying to move on, then my apologies, but you are the only one who has talked about the "black eye" stuff. anyway carry on. GO FLAMES!

[Kolzilla41]

jenkins, everyone is entitled to an opinion and i can certainly say for you to move on. whether you do or not is up to you, which i know you wont. it does not matter to me. losing a game on ESPN is not a black eye, losing to a team with a poor road record is not a black eye. we have played bad the last five games. i was not surprised. as for what other people say about LU...again, i could care less. i actually live in lynchburg now and still hear it from people who hate liberty but again, i do not care. the school and athletic department are growing and we will get better. i am not accepting mediocrity, but again the expecations of this team were low, and because we got on a good mid season run, a lot of expectations rose. i personally was never sold because he had the propensity to fall into bad play. it would have been nice to win but we didnt and we will get better. you are also assuming that the losing streak will hurt our confidence next year?? wow...do not even see how you can say that...and that is not a black eye either. i personally never said i was happy about last night. yeah it sucked but i am a realist....i told many before the game it would not surprise me if we lost. i do not disagree with BYD statement about apathy with Christians, but this is not a religious debate. i doubt you will find many that were not upset about the game, including players, coaches, administration, and fans. if your friends or whomever do not want to come on to FF, fine don't..its a message board and people disagree. it sounds like they need not be so thin skinned. as i have got older i try to stay out of these heated arguements because back in the early days of flamefans i was a jerk to some. the reason why we are all hear is because we love LU and want to support the school in anyway we can. all of us will never agree on everything. i simply get tired of the negativity and jumping off bridges because of a loss or calling for barber to be fired. i do think that a lot of the younger FF members are a part of the want it now generation. if you feel like i wronged you by saying to move on, then my apologies, but you are the only one who has talked about the "black eye" stuff. anyway carry on. GO FLAMES!

I'm sorry but how is getting destroyed on national television and losing to a really, really bad road team a good thing for our school or the men's program. How many more times do you think ESPN wants to put us on tv?

[jbock13]

Both Jenkins and Bigsmooth have pretty good points.

Well said by both of you.

[jenkins]

I'm not offended in the least bit. I actually agree with almost everythign you have said. I just didn't understand why you would say for me to move on because i said that was a "black eye". I just didn't want to be lumped in there with hokie lover who posts an entire thread about the lowered expectations. I also agree about the heated discussions, and i dont consider this one anyway. As far as the confidence goes, i think it's big for a young team. I dont it bodes well for teh psyche of a young team to play so poorly down the stretch and get upset on your floor, but again whatever. Finally, i said i'm not one of the Barber haters, i think we are in much better shape and should be happy we have him at the helm. I guess the only thing i really disagree with you on is about the perception of people posting on here. I think it's better with more people more points of view and that in turn means increased interest in liberty athletics. So i try not to be too over the top, yah teh black eye was probably a strong statement, really dissappointed and slightly embarrassed was probably a better word choice coming from a frustrated mind at that time. Anyways its all good bro, glad to see others care about the flames as much as i do!

[El Scorcho]

There is a touch of brilliance in his satire

Hardly.

Two years into Layer's coaching tenure and he's hacked because a season that otherwise exceeded all expectations ended poorly.

I know why he writes what he does and I know why you like it. I know why he only shows up after losses. I know who he is and I know this isn't his first username on the board.

Pathetic.

[Chippy]

Overall, the team had a great year. Exceeded everyone's expectations. I wonder if the pressure of being expected to win was too much for this young team. I believe with success came more pressure; it's a lot easier to play loose when you are not expected to win. High Point anyone?

[Schfourteenteen]

I actually enjoyed that. I'm always a fan of satire...

There is a touch of brilliance in his satire

Not so much. It certainly doesnt deserve to be on Page 2. The article is littered with gramatical errors, and it lacked the comedic jab that well-written satire can put forth. Instead, it resembled an angry guy who lacked the ability to connect his points in a thought out manner.

I really appreciated the effort though.

[flamesfilmguy]

I don't take people disagreeing with me personally. I know most of you on this board and for the most part I've met a lot of our regular posters through one avenue or another. and all of you can attest that through the time I spent on the mountain I was an avid defender of our athletic department as a whole. Not only because I was a part of it but because I believed in it. I've been away from the mountain for almost two years now so maybe this is because of my disconnect, or maybe its because I've been getting reports back from visits that the school as a whole is not what it used to be in just two years that i've been away. but I can not keep accepting these "oh it was a great season" and "we exceeded expectations" that tells me your expectations are mediocrity and you will be happy with the least bit of success above and beyond that. In basketball, people who say we are a young team, no we were a young team when we had true freshman in 4 of our 5 starting positions and we won 20+ games but still couldn't win the conference. we are not that young. so that excuse is moot. The truth is we choke in big games in almost all out major sports. basketball and football especially. Someone asked if I value a good regular season over winning a tourney more. well I weigh the tourney way more. we win we're in. doesn't matter how. someone said I'm looking at this as a quick snapshot rather than a big picture. ok I know i've only been a fan 6 years but other than the 2004 tourney for basketball what have we REALLY done recently? in all sports I'm asking because I can't think of anything. baseball hasn't in the past decade right? football definitely hasn't. soccer I think has but it was before my time. anyway my point is I don't think we should be patting ourselves on the back for "moral" victories. because honestly in the realm of div I sports there aren't any.

[flamesfilmguy]

to clarify I'm talking about what have we done in making the NCAA tourey's not regular seasons.

[grm]

I actually enjoyed that. I'm always a fan of satire...

There is a touch of brilliance in his satire

Not so much. It certainly doesnt deserve to be on Page 2. The article is littered with gramatical errors, and it lacked the comedic jab that well-written satire can put forth. Instead, it resembled an angry guy who lacked the ability to connect his points in a thought out manner.

I really appreciated the effort though.

Agreed on the grammar, but I thought his thought process was fairly well stated.
(Not saying that I agreed, just that I thought he stated his opinions fairly well)

[SuperJon]

There's some really ridiculous stuff in this thread.

1) Losing this will destroy the confidence of this team? They'll question if they got lucky and weren't really good enough to beat those teams? That's so completely stupid. If you've ever met Dale Layer, Jason Eaker, or Jesse Sanders or watched them practice then you will know that'll be the furthest thing from what happens this offseason. That actually made me laugh when I read it.

2) Losing these games will keep ESPN from showing our games on tv? That's dumb as well. ESPN couldn't care less how good we are. They see us as a mid-major school with a good arena with great site lines from the cameras that's already got everything they need for a television broadcast. They bring their cameras in and plug them up and they're ready to go. Having FSN, and FSN being so good, is what makes it easy, and attractive, for ESPN to come in and show our games. They know if they bring in a decent opponent, hire our guys to run the cameras, and tell the students the game's on ESPN, we'll have 4000 people and a great broadcast.

3) No team has done anything in six years. Yes, I know it was an exaggeration probably, but the men's soccer team finished 2nd in the league and went to the NCAA tournament in 2007. In 2008 they got beat on PKs in the semifinals to the top seed when they were a 5-seed. In 2009, they made a run to the tourney final with half the team being hurt or having the flu only to lose on a goal in the 73 minute. All of this was done while having crappy facilities.

Also, I know baseball hasn't been to the NCAA Tournament, but last year's team would've been by-far the best team in the Big South had Coastal not been in the league. I know that's a huge if, but in a one-bid league (usually), it's tough to be a Top 10 team in the conference tournament to get in the NCAAs. Royer screwed the pooch a few years against them in the tournament but they're a Top 15 program in the country for a reason. Not necessarily a fair comparison, and this is coming from a guy who definitely isn't a fan of our current baseball coach.

4) Not accepting that this was a good season or that we exceeded expectations because our "expectations are mediocrity" is living in an idealistic world where star players don't transfer and coaches don't quit. Everyone on this board new that this season was a set-up for the 2011-2012 season. We all said we'd be thrilled with a top four finish going into this year. As the season went on and we won some games we shouldn't have (due to hard work and smart play), people started getting inflated expectations. It's what Liberty people do. One good thing happens and we're the best in the world. One bad thing happens and the world is out to get us or we're terrible. There's never a middle ground with Liberty people.

[jbock13]

I don't take people disagreeing with me personally. I know most of you on this board and for the most part I've met a lot of our regular posters through one avenue or another. and all of you can attest that through the time I spent on the mountain I was an avid defender of our athletic department as a whole. Not only because I was a part of it but because I believed in it. I've been away from the mountain for almost two years now so maybe this is because of my disconnect, or maybe its because I've been getting reports back from visits that the school as a whole is not what it used to be in just two years that i've been away. but I can not keep accepting these "oh it was a great season" and "we exceeded expectations" that tells me your expectations are mediocrity and you will be happy with the least bit of success above and beyond that. In basketball, people who say we are a young team, no we were a young team when we had true freshman in 4 of our 5 starting positions and we won 20+ games but still couldn't win the conference. we are not that young. so that excuse is moot. The truth is we choke in big games in almost all out major sports. basketball and football especially. Someone asked if I value a good regular season over winning a tourney more. well I weigh the tourney way more. we win we're in. doesn't matter how. someone said I'm looking at this as a quick snapshot rather than a big picture. ok I know i've only been a fan 6 years but other than the 2004 tourney for basketball what have we REALLY done recently? in all sports I'm asking because I can't think of anything. baseball hasn't in the past decade right? football definitely hasn't. soccer I think has but it was before my time. anyway my point is I don't think we should be patting ourselves on the back for "moral" victories. because honestly in the realm of div I sports there aren't any.

Saw this last night and couldn't comment on it until now. Absolutely perfectly said.

[grm]

....Let us not forget what he did at USC as an example.....

What did JB do down there?