[SuperJon]

CCU fans don't come on here every couple of weeks and make fun of our 30 bleacher baseball stadium.

High Point doesn't make fun of our inferior Soccer Stadium.

Terrible, terrible argument in this case.

No one is saying the teams are better because of the facilities. What people are saying is that conference tournaments shouldn't be held in these tiny gyms.

Baseball has never been held at Liberty because we don't have the facilities.

Soccer has only been held at Liberty because we haven't had the facilities.

In these other sports, because we don't have the facilities to host, we either a) don't host or b) find an alternate location (i.e. baseball going to Danville). That's all we're asking. If you can't facilitate the event because you don't have the facilities, find another facility or don't host. We do it in every other sport but yet not men's basketball.

[ToTheLeft]

No, because it all comes back to the same thing...

You make the regular season worth something when you give home court advantage to the winners. Look at the ASun tournament... #5 and #6 met in the final... the final was held in Macon, GA. Home of Mercer. They made the final as a #6 seed...

So, assuming that people agree with that point, which honestly you should because it's the most balanced, fair way to handle things, then it comes back to...

If Liberty wins and takes full advantage of having better facilities and more money, then we host. Clearly, the small gyms aren't holding those schools back, and who are we to complain when they regularly beat us? If these schools never won thanks to their small gym, they wouldn't be in a position to host tournaments based on the current rules.

[SuperJon]

I'm not complaining about them winning. I'm complaining because fans can't go to the games. Winthrop and Radford fans couldn't get tickets to their game last Thursday because they were only given 100 tickets and Coastal didn't get split the games like Asheville did. How is that fair at all? How is that good business at all?

I don't go into this argument as a Liberty fan. I go into this as a fan in general. We have three schools with three of the smallest gyms in America. Coastal and Asheville are upgrading and when they have their new 3000+ facilities then I won't complain at all about them hosting. However, these middle school gyms are too small to host the tournament.

We go with the best facility or the best bid in every other sport in the conference but we somehow think that's not a good idea for men's basketball. Schools in the conference upgrade their facilities in part because they know they can host the conference tournaments and that's a big deal for schools. In basketball, there's absolutely no incentive from the conference to have good facilities, and there's no penalties for not having good facilities.

[horrez]

I guess I just don't get embarrassed easily...

Same here. Of course, the way I look should make that obvious.

[ballah09]

You show me one kid who turns down WU or LU because of UNCA's gym, and I'll show you a kid who came to LU for the mission of the school and the campus, or who went to WU for the tradition and the campus. I've never been recruited, but I really can't see OTHER TEAMS' gyms being that big of an issue. And if it is for a certain kid, is that the kind of kid we want?

And despite their small gym, UNCA has gotten players that have whipped us for the past few years. Despite their small gym, CCU has landed one of the best post players in the conference history in Joe Harris, and one of the best guards in Jack Leasure. Despite their small gym, CSU has Jamarco Warren who is a real talent. Despite their small gym, Presby is going to be one of the best teams in the Big South next year. Despite their BIG gym, Radford will be in the bottom half next year, and has been to the dance once in recent memory thanks to the most dominant post player to come thru the BSC in a while. Despite their BIG gym, LU has won ONE Big South ring in the last 15 years.

yeah we are gonna land the religious athletes and we're are gonna lose kids who dont fit in this atmosphere but facilities are a big part for alot of a good athletes. i read countless of recruiting articles where athletes rave about facilities. i say about 80% of the (non-scholar)athletes base their decision on facilities (for football and basketball). If we had UNCA gym i can bet Bowen wouldnt even consider us. (he really likes the vines) We also landed players like Gordon because of our facilities

[ToTheLeft]

But, do we lose players because of other teams facilities? I know teams lose and gain players because of facilities all the time, but how often do guys decide based on a conference opponent's gym or facilities?

And "fans not being able to go to the games" hasn't come up as much in this thread as it being an "embarrassment", Jon. And that's the point. Maybe it embarrasses us more because we lost by 20 to CCU in their "small gym", and that we haven't won at Asheville in a long time in their "small gym"...

Scrolling thru real quick...

"Embarrassing, Pathetic, embarrassing..."

That's from this version of this same old story...

If the consistent cry was "Fans can't go see games", that's one thing. You wanting to be right when you argue something, so you keep fishing for a point that people haven't debunked yet, is another.

It's not home field advantage for LU to play in Danville. It's not home court advantage for CCU to play in anything but BucDome. It's not home court for CCU to play anywhere but Kimble. CCU was really good at home this year... why would they go to another venue so 40 LU fans, 40 Winthrop fans, and maybe 40 fans from all the other schools combined can come watch the game?

Millis isn't very big, but HPU was lights out at home this year... how would you feel as Scott Cherry if you were told that you had to move to a bigger venue so that CSU and Presby could have seat allotments, and lose your home court advantage? That's unfair.

If you earn home court, you get to pick where home court is. If that's your 850 seat gym, then so be it. If they win in the 850 seat gym and make a name for themselves, maybe an alum will cough up some dough and they'll get a better one. But shoving them off to an off-campus site, despite the fact that they earned a home game, isn't balanced or fair.

The only other completely fair, balanced solution would be to hold the tournament in Durham or Raleigh, since it's sorta central to the conference but not too close to any one school... but I still don't like that because it reduces the incentive for the regular season...

[ballah09]

oops i misread what you wrote but to answer your question rarely

[SuperJon]

I haven't read every post in this thread because I know a lot of this argument is dumb. I don't claim to know the individual complaints that people said. The embarrassing thing is pretty much dumb though.

If you told a team before the season what the guidelines were for hosting (2500 seats) then it's absolutely fair if a team has to move. Duke's the #1 seed in the ACC this year. They're not hosting the tournament and rightly so. They do, however, get the "easiest" path to the tournament title. That's the only "advantage" that a team needs for winning the conference.

I have said it before and will continue to repeat it: I think that, under the current rules, a school would be absolutely stupid to move the tournament out of their gym. I think that the conference should create new guidelines for the tournament to ensure that fans from the schools playing get to the tournament. For our conference to get better, we must start having better facilities, and giving schools an incentive to get those facilities is something that we don't have.

[RubberMallet]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/s ... id=4958649

Go to "Cracker Box Palaces," featuring the CSU fieldhouse, CCU's Kimbel Arena and the Justice Center, making UNC-Asheville the "third member of the Big South to have a not-so-big arena." Absolutely embarassing article for the entire league.

I guess I just don't get embarrassed easily...IF I was a CSU, CCU, or UNCA supporter, maybe I would be embarrassed by that, but as WU fan, I'm very happy with the facility my team plays in, and to me, those small places reflect poorly on those schools, not Winthrop.

it reflects on the level of schools you play/associate yourself with i guess.

[horrez]

Duke's the #1 seed in the ACC this year. They're not hosting the tournament and rightly so. They do, however, get the "easiest" path to the tournament title. That's the only "advantage" that a team needs for winning the conference.

But Duke isn't playing right now to get into the NCAA Tournament.

[ToTheLeft]

I missed that the first read thru.... to use your phrase, Jon...

"That's a terrible, terrible argument"

Comparing the situation of the ACC, with a ton of schools with very large fanbases, to the Big South, which, combined has the fanbase of UNC or Duke (maybe)... the need for a neutral site with reserved seating for each school is not just a good idea, it's a necessity. Even if you held the ACC tourney at the largest on campus site in the ACC, it would be overrun by that school's fans, and could not handle the eleven other fanbases that would be heading into town.

As well, as our Winthrop friend said, comparing Duke to Coastal is absurd. CCU HAD TO WIN the tournament to get into the NCAA's, Duke could lose it's first game still be a 2 seed. The Big South Tournament is of GREAT importance to Big South teams and their hopes of making the Big Dance, and therefore, regular season performance should be weighed heavily when it comes to advantages in the postseason. What were we supposed to do...

"Congrats for sweeping Liberty, CCU, including a dominant home win over the Flames. As a reward, in the first round, you get to play them at a gym you don't have familiar sight lines at, and that doesn't feel like home to you."

Don't give me "easiest path"... especially when there are no bye weeks in the Big South tournament. A bye week is ALMOST good enough to make it worth it, almost. Look at the example of the A-Sun tourney. #5 played #6 on #6's floor for the final. What did 1-4 play for all year? The right to go to Macon and lose on the Mercer home court.

Don't make a team move as a "reward" for winning.
Don't make a team forfeit home court as a "reward" for dominating the league.

[SuperJon]

I knew the ACC argument was weak but I didn't have time to look up a new one. I'll fully concede it wasn't the best argument or even really a good argument.

I don't have a great solution, but from the perspective of the conference there has to be something better than what we have now. I don't know what that is. Luckily we only have one more year of being in this predicament because the other schools are building better facilities.

From a conference perspective, it isn't good to have only 1000 people at a championship game. I'm not looking at this as individual schools but rather what looks best for our conference and maximizes our conference. I hate that we're in this league as much as anyone else but it's our only option right now so we need to make it the best that it possibly can be.

[UNCA Alum]

From a conference perspective, it isn't good to have only 1000 people at a championship game. I'm not looking at this as individual schools but rather what looks best for our conference and maximizes our conference. I hate that we're in this league as much as anyone else but it's our only option right now so we need to make it the best that it possibly can be.

I'd rather have 1,000 people watching it in Conway than 800 people taking in the game in Roanoke.

I thought it was a pretty sweet atmosphere.

[SuperJon]

And that's why I said I don't know what the best solution is. I have an idea but it's "not fair" and we all know that the conference isn't going to do anything to hurt the little schools. I would just think the conference would want to maximize a conference tournament championship game.

[UNCA Alum]

And that's why I said I don't know what the best solution is. I have an idea but it's "not fair" and we all know that the conference isn't going to do anything to hurt the little schools. I would just think the conference would want to maximize a conference tournament championship game.

18 regular season games to see who gets to host the tournament.

That's about as fair as one can get.

The conference should be maximizing the chance that its best team will represent them in the NCAA Tournament.

If your idea is for the Big South to force Asheville, Coastal and Charleston to move to a bigger, nearby arena in the event that it is a host school.... it's simply just not possible due to scheduling conflicts. Let's say Asheville and Coastal Carolina are seeds 2 and 3 and playing at top seeded Liberty on semifinal Thursday. It's not like we can just put both the Asheville Civic Center and the Myrtle Beach Convocation Center on hold for Saturday due to the possibility of maybe needing to host a championship game.

And we don't know the top seed until the final week of the regular season. It's not like those nearby civic centers are going to hold off reserving somebody that will definitely come because they have to be ready in case Asheville, Coastal or Charleston miraculously wins the regular season crown.

[SuperJon]

That's why I said that I don't have a great idea. I have an idea but it's not the best. I've said that over and over. I also said we won't have this problem in two years because you guys have upgraded.

[g-webb1994]

I'm not a big fan of not playing all the games at a neutral site.

However, the clause in place that moves the title game to the home of the higher seed on Saturday is a good one, whether the host of the semis has a large gym or not.

Say UNCA would have upset Coastal Thursday, then the game Saturday would have been at Winthrop, a large building. Would WU have been able, on short notice, to draw a capacity crowd with the Davidson Invitational, er, SOCON tourney, being played 20 minutes away? A good "what if" to ponder.

[SuperJon]

My biggest question is why is it completely acceptable in every sports besides men's basketball to have a set location for the tournament that's awarded in advance but it's not acceptable for the men's tournament?

[g-webb1994]

My biggest question is why is it completely acceptable in every sports besides men's basketball to have a set location for the tournament that's awarded in advance but it's not acceptable for the men's tournament?

Exactly. Do you think either of our teams would like to be hosting the womens tourney this weekend with an epic Sunday clash in the offing?

[01LUGrad]

I'm very sorry if my comments about Coastal's gym were taken out of contex. In no way was I trying to compare their place to the Vines Center. That's ridiculous. I was comparing it to a middle school gym.

That being said, I don't have a great solution to the problem either, other than LU needs to get the #1 seed and host the televised game on campus in Lynchburg. (Maybe we could work out a deal where ESPN doesn't televise it because we stink on the Family of Networks.) I just popped in the tape from 2004. That place was going crazy. That's got to make the conference look better than it did on Saturday. Once again, under the current system, it is up to our guys to make that happen.

[jcmanson]

I think the system is fine the way it is.

I’m interested to know what the conference is planning on doing once Presby and Campbell are eligible for the tournament. We will then have 11 teams eligible, and currently only 8 make the tourney. I think 27% of the conference NOT making the tournament is too much. Will we make the change though? And what would the change be?

The standard 11 team bracket has the top 5 teams getting byes. With 6 vs 11, 7 vs 10, and 8 vs 9 in the first round.
In the quarters it would be 1 vs 8/9, 4 vs 5, 2 vs 7/10, 3 vs 6/11.

That would add 1 additional round to the current format. What day would that round be played? Monday? Tuesday and push the quarterfinals to Wednesday?

[horrez]

Say UNCA would have upset Coastal Thursday, then the game Saturday would have been at Winthrop, a large building. Would WU have been able, on short notice, to draw a capacity crowd with the Davidson Invitational, er, SOCON tourney, being played 20 minutes away? A good "what if" to ponder.

I don't know if it would have been a sell-out, but I believe there would have been a good crowd there (5,000+). I know a lot of season ticket holders (like me) went ahead and had their seats reserved on the off chance that WU would host the championship game. And the SOCON tournament wouldn't have had anything to do with the crowd size at WU. So I don't know if it would have been a sell-out, but the place wouldn't have looked empty. Of course we'll never know since UNCA couldn't take care of their part.

I think the system is fine the way it is.

I’m interested to know what the conference is planning on doing once Presby and Campbell are eligible for the tournament. We will then have 11 teams eligible, and currently only 8 make the tourney. I think 27% of the conference NOT making the tournament is too much. Will we make the change though? And what would the change be?

I think they should leave it the way it is. I took a quick glance at the Big South record book and over the years the bottom 3 teams are usually very very very bad. I see no reason why any team that ends up in 9th, 10th, or 11th in the Big South should have a shot at making it to the NCAA Tournament.

[JK37]

I'm a firm believer that EVERY team should make the tournament, no matter their liklihood of winning.

I think a greater problem with the standard 11-team format is scheduling. If you have homesites still in the quarters, you must have a day between the first round and quarters.

I say have first round on Monday, and quarters on Wednesday at homesites. Then, have the semifinal and final in one location on Friday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday.

Furthermore, combine the men and women for the semis and finals. 6 games in 2 days, gets my vote!! But then again, I'm a bball junkie like olldflame.

[UNCA Alum]

My biggest question is why is it completely acceptable in every sports besides men's basketball to have a set location for the tournament that's awarded in advance but it's not acceptable for the men's tournament?

Exactly. Do you think either of our teams would like to be hosting the womens tourney this weekend with an epic Sunday clash in the offing?

Well with baseball being a double elimination tournament and teams sometimes playing two games a day (I think?), it doesn't really make much sense to make them travel b/w the various schools in the Big South.

And the other tournaments are not on TV. If the Liberty vs. Radford men's soccer final was going to be on ESPNU, I doubt that the Big South would want the game to be played in Conway, SC.

[thepostman]

top 8..with 10 or 11 teams and 3 not making it, it at least makes the season mean a little something more then it does...8 teams making it just makes sense to me