[LUconn]

he thinks his answer to Lang's question was unprofessional.

But look folks, I think it's pretty obvious that an opinion based answer is gonna differ when your starting point is already bias. lureal obviously has loyalties to RD. So everything in his eyes are gonna slant against JB. Some of you wanted RD gone before the season started. Obviously your always going to slant against RD. It's really not worth arguing over. But hey, I guess we wouldnt be talking about anything if we stopped now. I just hope we can all move on once another coach is named.

[TallyW]

Although the mansion may not have liked it... I frankly appreciated his answer... Professional in my mind doesn't mean lying about a direct question when there are no forseeable consequences... so big deal... the big wigs got their feathers ruffled... ohh well... when you hire top notched guys... sometimes they will add their weight to the boat... this is hardly something to be worked up over...

It's not as though Dr. Falwell hasn't said what was on his mind when asked a direct question.... This mountain is full of pros who can handle that stuff...

[RagingTireFire]

...we can all pray for rose colored glasses about the prince rides into town and sets the programs on their winning way...

...please when the kings of gossip was at their height no one called it babbling...

...not all that glitters is gold...

A liiiittle too much Zeppelin so early in the morning, real.

And, by the way, "no felonies" is not a selling point for RD. That's to be expected whether he was a good coach or not.

[grm]

I mentioned that RD was in deep trouble before the first game was even played. He was officially put on review, and threatened with immediate dismissal - in writing. There were several things put out by JB, as I mentioned in an earlier post. One of the things was "promptly paying the bills your program accrues." However, to pay your bills, you must submit requistions, and then you must wait on the requistions. People under Randy who were handling this were frustrated by the process, insisting that they had submitted things in the appropriate time and manner, and yet, they did not get the funding in an appropriate time. Before the "non-renewal" they were all painted in a bad light, with it being wondered aloud if they had ever dealt with a budget. After the "non-renewal" they were told they had done nothing wrong.

I hesitate to say things like this, and I don't want to hurt anyone. However, these things could be documented, and the sources go "to the horses mouths" apart from Randy Dunton. You could actually ask Jeff Barber about it if you really wanted to.

Again, JB can make the decisions that his job calls for. All he needed to say was that it was time for a change.
No problem - it's his call, but he put things out there, demanded that Randy not talk to superiors about it, and
listed them as grounds for dismissal. Of course I am not objective, but not all of my information is tainted by RD.
I'm giving you one illustration, and I'll probably not say another word.

Randy was history before the first game was played, but he labored on in good faith, attempting to please someone who did not really want to be pleased (in my opinion). Again, in my opinion, he demanded things of Randy that he himself controlled. Randy mentioned some of this stuff to me at the time that it took place - and I asked him for
faxes, which he did not send, and I forgot to pressure him on. Had I seen what I later saw, I would have advised Randy to get his resume out immediately, because it was obvious that he was done.

ONE MORE TIME. I'm not crying, but I am trying to answer some things that have been kicked around. I pledge to not say anything else on this matter.

[Hold My Own]

those were pretty good details and not much gray area

[FlameNForest]

let's see if jb's man matches what dunton got done

Let's hope he doesn't match what RD did , because 1 winning season in the next five years won't cut it.

we were headed in a positive direction. maybe dunton set a timetable he didn't meet but i believe he would have built something special.

14-17 is better than 7-23, so I guess that can be construed as heading in a positive direction. But after five years is that really good enough, especially when you're losing the schools all-time leading scorer in D1 history?

Also, one thing to remember is that it isn't like RD was just out right fired. It just so happened that his contract was up after this season and JB apparently thought we'd be better served going in another direction. Had the contract still had a year or two on it, then it's entirely likely RD would've been given aother year. But under the circumstances, he was given five years and record speaks for itself.

[TallyW]

A post like that I can appreciate.

[Rocketfan]

let's see if jb's man matches what dunton got done

Let's hope he doesn't match what RD did , because 1 winning season in the next five years won't cut it.

we were headed in a positive direction. maybe dunton set a timetable he didn't meet but i believe he would have built something special.

14-17 is better than 7-23, so I guess that can be construed as heading in a positive direction. But after five years is that really good enough, especially when you're losing the schools all-time leading scorer in D1 history?

Also, one thing to remember is that it isn't like RD was just out right fired. It just so happened that his contract was up after this season and JB apparently thought we'd be better served going in another direction. Had the contract still had a year or two on it, then it's entirely likely RD would've been given aother year. But under the circumstances, he was given five years and record speaks for itself.

If i am not mistaken his contract was thru the very end of this calendar year, not the end of the season. At least thats why i read in the News and Advance.

[grm]

That's correct. Contract honored, duties discontinued.

[belcherboy]

14-17 is better than 7-23, so I guess that can be construed as heading in a positive direction. But after five years is that really good enough, especially when you're losing the schools all-time leading scorer in D1 history?

Also, one thing to remember is that it isn't like RD was just out right fired. It just so happened that his contract was up after this season and JB apparently thought we'd be better served going in another direction. Had the contract still had a year or two on it, then it's entirely likely RD would've been given aother year. But under the circumstances, he was given five years and record speaks for itself.

IMO if Dunton would have had 2 years left on his contract, he would have been fired. It was clear by Barber's statements that him and Dunton were not working in the same direction. I agree that Barber could have done without some of his statements, but he did the right thing IMO. Dunton needed to go, just as Barber stated that even a Big South championship would not have saved his job. I liked Dunton, but I truly believe that a DI program is too big for him at this point in his career. He seems to be a GREAT recruiter, but appears to lack in his abilities to coach at the Division I level IMO. He is still young and could grow into that role one day, but I don't believe he has it right now. I'm by no means claiming he was terrible, but he was below average, as his overall record shows.

It is kind wierd, but I live near the University of Michigan and follow all their sports. We are currently dealing with a guy just like Randy Dunton. Tommy Amaker is a GREAT recruiter and has some fantastic talent. He has never been able to develop that talent into a NCAA tourney team. He is finishing up his 6th season and had some restrictions during that time, but still has not been able to take the great talent on this team and teach them to win. They rarely win big games, and have not done enough to even be considered by the NCAA committee the past few years. I've got a feeling his time will be up after the NIT tourney is done. IMO he is in the same boat as Dunton and needs to go.

[hurricane fan]

There are two sides to every story and it's obvious that a couple of you have only heard one side. The personal attacks on JB are downright idiotic. Let me guess, he left South Carolina to come to LU with with the agenda of firing RD?

[SumItUp]

Personally, I really liked RD. He was passionate about his position as head coach of the Flames. He had a long term, lifetime vision for the Flames basketball program. His intention was not to use LU as a stepping stone to another program. He wanted to be a part of something special. He set goals for the program that were not met and I am sure that he had to be as frustrated as anyone else that the wins did not always outweigh the losses. RD will be successful in his future endeavors. I trust that God has something better for him at this time. He had a positive impact on a lot of people in the LU family in the years that he gave to the program. I am one of those people and I say that he will be missed.

I am a fan and would love to see the Flames go undefeated in conference and win the Big South tournament every year. My view of the program has been from a distance. I have watched the televised games via satellite and followed the reports that are posted on libertyflames.com. As an alumnus of Liberty, I wanted to see things happen faster, but the reality is that the program had gone backwards before he returned to the program. The program is in a good position for someone to take it forward right now. Wins and losses do matter, but must be taken in perspective. In 20 years, my hope is that the Liberty program is mentioned alongside the great programs like UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, and (pick your favorite program). However, Liberty MUST be different. The impact should not just be a great basketball team, but a place where the top Christian athletes in the country WANT to come and play. Our recruiting efforts should not just be for the coach or the players that will put up the most W's or bring championships to the University, but for individuals that are willing to sacrifice their time for a greater purpose and impact our culture for Christ through sports.

[RagingTireFire]

There were several things put out by JB, as I mentioned in an earlier post. One of the things was "promptly paying the bills your program accrues." However, to pay your bills, you must submit requistions, and then you must wait on the requistions. People under Randy who were handling this were frustrated by the process, insisting that they had submitted things in the appropriate time and manner, and yet, they did not get the funding in an appropriate time. Before the "non-renewal" they were all painted in a bad light, with it being wondered aloud if they had ever dealt with a budget. After the "non-renewal" they were told they had done nothing wrong.

I hesitate to say things like this, and I don't want to hurt anyone. However, these things could be documented, and the sources go "to the horses mouths" apart from Randy Dunton. You could actually ask Jeff Barber about it if you really wanted to.

Are you saying these things were "put out there" to Dunton or "put out there" to the public at large? I ask b/c I never heard JB make one peep about RD in public until the decision was made and all of the public statements he made at that time have documented on this board and did not include anything to do with budgets et al. Did I miss a Lang-a-thon?

[grm]

No, it was not public.

[TallyW]

Grm... I'm asking in open honesty... not being critical...

Do you find fault with Barber for coming in trying to right the ship and saying "Look... here are lapses in your department... on my watch they will not happen... I could fire you for this... get it under control." I ask knowing that JB would't have known Dunton from anyone... I'm asking this question figuring that JB was given a list of things that were concerns before he even arrived... Correct me on anything I'm missing... if all is legit... do you have beef with JB for that approach?

[Purple Haize]

I wonder if that was the same excuse he used in Marshaltown.

[grm]

It's hard to say if JB came in with some prior knowledge of Dunton. Randy has been loved/hated in opposing circles, as we have all seen here. Was it simply that Randy had too high a profile with the top brass & the community, or was it simply wins and loses? I don't believe it was wins and loses, because the trouble was there by mid-October, and this was clearly stated, although not publicly.

It appeared to me that the things mentioned in mid October were contrived, or presumed without proper evidence.
What does a nebulous term like "cooperation" really mean? Are you not supposed to "put the needs of the men's basketball program before the needs of the athletics department."? (Of course, you would need to be respectful of the total program, but your job is to promore MBB.) Innuendo concerning arm-twisting of "Flames Club members" for donations, does not seem fair to me, unless there are specifics. "NCAA guidlines, specifically as it relates to
financial aid."? These should be backed up with fact. "Promptly pay your bills" when he holds the money, and money that should have been in the B-ball account from guarantee games?

And there was plenty of punch - it was not "Randy, I know things happen but let's be careful." It was "immediate dismissal" "mandated" "will not be tolerated" and "will be grounds for immediate dismissal." I got no sense of, "Let's work together to right the ship."

So my take is that Jeff had no intention of renewing Randy's contract. AGAIN, HE HAS THAT AUTHORITY AND THAT ADMINISTRATIVE RIGHT! He got his backing lined up - and that was that. I think it's a terrible decision, while others are rejoicing that the right man (JB) came to town at the right time.

That's my honest take....

[TallyW]

grm did Randy do anything wrong in your eyes?

[Purple Haize]

GRM Here is the question that needs to be answered - Was any of it true? Did he "twist arm's" to support Center Circle over the Flames Club (Not here of course elsewise we would have CenterCircleFans.com ) Would "cooperation" mean not trying to make end runs around the AD to the Mansion if something didn't go his way? Would "paying bills on time" mean also stay within your budget? NCAA infractions are very serious could some of the concern be over the new NCAA policy of reducing scholarships based on graduation rates and GPA's? Maybe JB sat down, looked at the status of the program and saw that these were egregious violations that needed addresssing immediately?
Just some counter thoughts

[grm]

Well Purple, I have no way of knowing what Jeff saw when he looked at the program. I have no doubt that Randy ruffles feathers, but he is not a cheat (you didn't call him that) and he has not had problems with these things - ever to my knowledge.

Perception becomes reality. Randy has been a real go-getter in certain areas, and in some of those areas Jeff may have had the perception that they were within the sphere of AD & not Coach. I understand what you're saying as a counter-view, and really, I cannot answer. I see Randy as a hard working, use-whatever-you-can-without-breaking-the-rules kind of guy. I think I spoke to Jeff once or twice, and really could not say what his thought process was or is.

[grm]

Jusr re-read my answer to Purple and realized that I may have been guilty of a little political-speak. To answer more directly, I do not believe Randy had done wrong with the budget, do not believe he tried to siphon funds from one program to another, believe the academic portion was in excellent shape, and believe that he was cooperative.
Did he have some special access to the Mansion? I think maybe, but I don't think that he should have been resented or restricted on that. Anyway, Jeff was obviously able to convince the Good Rev. to let Randy go. It gets right back to the bottom line of "who thinks which one is not the man for the job."

[Purple Haize]

GRM Thanks for clarifying I never said he cheated
It is not possible for him to syphon funds from one program to another (at least not here) but it is possible for him to "encourage" donors to give to "his" Center Circle and NOT to the Flames Club It IS possible for him to over extend on the budget one year and "pay it back" next year. It is possible for him t o not file req's in a timely manner, thus causing even MORE discombobulation with the budget office than one normaly gets. Other teams struggle with the same byzantium labrynth that is LU Budget and seem to have no problem getting bills paid on time. And of course everyone knows that he had everything but a hot line to the mansion installed in his office. If he didn't get what he wanted from the department, off to the mansion he went. Those are the types of things that MAY, possibly, irk an AD who actually has some backing.

[Bronx Bombers]

It gets right back to the bottom line of "who thinks which one is not the man for the job."

Does it really matter if RD thought JB was the right man for the job? Obviously JB has the support of everyone above and below him...beyond that just look at all the positive additions Jeff Barber has brought about since he has been here. Its simply a matter of looking at our athletic facilities and all the changes we've seen with those in just one year...

[grm]

It gets right back to the bottom line of "who thinks which one is not the man for the job."

JB said that of Randy ... "not the man for the job." Mine was a take-off on that. Plus I came from Maine, and to live in Maine you must sign a statement saying that you hate the Yankees and love the Red Sox.

[lureal]

purple-obviously if dunton was hired by the mansion then he had access but i dare anyone find where he didn't cooperate with jb in all areas. the budget issue is funny cause this is not a one man program. there are two people in basketball that spend 30% of their time on budgeting issues. the budget issues revolve around things that jb controled such as guarantee monies being placed in the accounts and requisitions stalled at the ad level instead of timely moving on to accounts payable. so don't take a professionally run office of quality people and paint some bandit or slip sod picture when it was our new upstart ad who controled the monies. he didn't do his job accordingly. jb has tried to do damage control with dunton supporters who are friends of mine and his list of complaints make these people question him. he has the right to go a different direction but don't discredit, falsify and misrepresent in order to make a move. then tell the people responsible in the program for the areas you criticize that they are doing a great job and get to keep their position
we can all have our views but you can't argue with the fact rd was building. we were not tredding water the staff and team were moivng forward. look at the schedule and where these teams are. niagara, byu, florida, winthrop and oru in the 64. even barton is in the d2 final eight. committed families are out and we will see what gets done.