[SuperJon]

The problem I have right now is that people are getting mean. It's one thing to think Layer needs to go and that we need a new coach. It's another to call him a bum, clown, or other things that are personal.

I dont know that this is happening as much as you say it is, but I dont think that it is right to do. In all honesty though, how can you fault someone for expressing how they feel if they really feel that way or if others around them feel that way? The same lack of tact is shown by anyone who said to you that those players were thugs. Why are you a higher ground for someone telling you how they feel over expressing it on twitter? The only difference is we dont get to see the real source when you brought it up. Its going on the internet either way, its wrong either way, and its mostly built on assumptions either way.

Im not going to call him any names, but after having multiple interactions with many of his players, I can say he is about as good of a person to his players as he is a recruiter and talent evaluator.

SJ, Im not taking shots at you, just drawing a line of comparison. It's the beauty of the internet and everyone having a voice. Even the dumb ones get a voice. Dale isnt the first coach (not even the first one at Liberty to have to put up with it) and he certainly wont be the last.

I think it's wrong regardless of the situation. The guys who called former players thugs were out of line just like people today saying personal things about Layer.

The way you are handling the situation - mentioning negative actions but not calling names - is the way you go about these situations. I was adamant I wasn't a huge Gill fan before the playoff run but I never went personal or attacked character. It's 100% acceptable to discuss results and actions but it should never go personal.

Having a platform and a voice isn't an excuse for being a jerk. Christians are great at justifying being mean in the name of sports. I fully admit once being like that as well. I've said things about coaches in the past that, given the opportunity, I'd apologize straight to their face today.

Doc always said if it's Christian it ought to be better. That means Liberty needs a new basketball coach. It also means we need to treat the current one better than most schools even as we replace him.

(Note: this was fully typed on my phone. If there are typos, I apologize.)

[comet]

I've been trekking with this forum for awhile now. I've always been appreciative of the conduct of its members. We're all given a chance to be anonymous, yet almost every commentator on here keeps things above board. That's a testament to the LU fan base.

[BJWilliams]

I'll move on outside of a passing mention of ballcoach again repeating one of his three talking points on basketball for the umpteenth time...


If coach Layer acted in a way even remotely abusive toward a player, they need to go to someone about it...ideally JLFJR.

For those of us in the real world there is a space between Abuse and Lovey Dovy. Players can be ignored by coaches. Or lied to about coaches or told one thing only to have a coach do something different. On the other hand you would have to define 'abuse'. Would lifting weights until you threw up be abuse? What about cleaning the equipment room with a tooth brush?

I understand that there is a line PH, but without knowing any details about what TheGovernor (or the players he supposedly talked to) is referring to, you cant really know for sure, but whatever it is, if it even tlouched that line, without necessarily crossing it, its still something that a player would have to go over the coach's head for to get some sort of resulution

[Purple Haize]

I'll move on outside of a passing mention of ballcoach again repeating one of his three talking points on basketball for the umpteenth time...


If coach Layer acted in a way even remotely abusive toward a player, they need to go to someone about it...ideally JLFJR.

For those of us in the real world there is a space between Abuse and Lovey Dovy. Players can be ignored by coaches. Or lied to about coaches or told one thing only to have a coach do something different. On the other hand you would have to define 'abuse'. Would lifting weights until you threw up be abuse? What about cleaning the equipment room with a tooth brush?

I understand that there is a line PH, but without knowing any details about what TheGovernor (or the players he supposedly talked to) is referring to, you cant really know for sure, but whatever it is, if it even tlouched that line, without necessarily crossing it, its still something that a player would have to go over the coach's head for to get some sort of resulution

Not getting playing time is light years away from 'abuse'. When you say 'abusive' thoughts of Ruthers Basketball spring to mind. I don't know if Layer treats his players good or bad but I would be SHOCKED if he abuses them

[TheGovernor]

The problem I have right now is that people are getting mean. It's one thing to think Layer needs to go and that we need a new coach. It's another to call him a bum, clown, or other things that are personal.

I dont know that this is happening as much as you say it is, but I dont think that it is right to do. In all honesty though, how can you fault someone for expressing how they feel if they really feel that way or if others around them feel that way? The same lack of tact is shown by anyone who said to you that those players were thugs. Why are you a higher ground for someone telling you how they feel over expressing it on twitter? The only difference is we dont get to see the real source when you brought it up. Its going on the internet either way, its wrong either way, and its mostly built on assumptions either way.

Im not going to call him any names, but after having multiple interactions with many of his players, I can say he is about as good of a person to his players as he is a recruiter and talent evaluator.

SJ, Im not taking shots at you, just drawing a line of comparison. It's the beauty of the internet and everyone having a voice. Even the dumb ones get a voice. Dale isnt the first coach (not even the first one at Liberty to have to put up with it) and he certainly wont be the last.

I think it's wrong regardless of the situation. The guys who called former players thugs were out of line just like people today saying personal things about Layer.

The way you are handling the situation - mentioning negative actions but not calling names - is the way you go about these situations. I was adamant I wasn't a huge Gill fan before the playoff run but I never went personal or attacked character. It's 100% acceptable to discuss results and actions but it should never go personal.

Having a platform and a voice isn't an excuse for being a jerk. Christians are great at justifying being mean in the name of sports. I fully admit once being like that as well. I've said things about coaches in the past that, given the opportunity, I'd apologize straight to their face today.

Doc always said if it's Christian it ought to be better. That means Liberty needs a new basketball coach. It also means we need to treat the current one better than most schools even as we replace him.

(Note: this was fully typed on my phone. If there are typos, I apologize.)

I agree with what youve said here. A couple differences are, 1. with Gill, you didn't know him (or of him) personally to be able to do that. This is specific to what I was saying and not people who are attacking him because most of them dont know him (or of him). 2. Youre right, a platform doesnt mean you can be a jerk, but I would encourage you to hold the staff to the same standards. We have all said things that we regret, and these kids people on twitter just havent reached the point yet where they see it as a problem... even if some of them might be older than you are, they just havent got there yet. My point is, everyone including DL expects it to happen to some extent or another, it's not our job to tell them what they should be writing on their social media pages. That's all. Couldnt agree with you more on everything else though.

[TheGovernor]

I'll move on outside of a passing mention of ballcoach again repeating one of his three talking points on basketball for the umpteenth time...


If coach Layer acted in a way even remotely abusive toward a player, they need to go to someone about it...ideally JLFJR.

For those of us in the real world there is a space between Abuse and Lovey Dovy. Players can be ignored by coaches. Or lied to about coaches or told one thing only to have a coach do something different. On the other hand you would have to define 'abuse'. Would lifting weights until you threw up be abuse? What about cleaning the equipment room with a tooth brush?

I understand that there is a line PH, but without knowing any details about what TheGovernor (or the players he supposedly talked to) is referring to, you cant really know for sure, but whatever it is, if it even tlouched that line, without necessarily crossing it, its still something that a player would have to go over the coach's head for to get some sort of resulution

PH- BJ doesnt deal with in between spaces as discussed previously.

Ive never said anyone was abused. It isnt abuse. Please Lord dont take my words as saying they were ever abused. What PH said here is more along the lines of what goes on, just on a much larger scale and a much more regular basis than anyone would care to admit.

Players can be ignored by coaches. Or lied to about coaches or told one thing only to have a coach do something different.

[jlread]

I haven't read all the junk about how horrible Layer is but it's clear he's in a funk. I know nothing about this dude but I'm curious if him not playing his son was the straw that broke the camels back on the home front ?? Lol. I know very little about basketball but I'm 100% certain if my kid was on any team I was coaching and never played him or dropped him from the team, my wife would make it like Swallowing Razor blades for dinner every night!!!

[comet]

I haven't read all the junk about how horrible Layer is but it's clear he's in a funk. I know nothing about this dude but I'm curious if him not playing his son was the straw that broke the camels back on the home front ?? I chortle audibly.. I know very little about basketball but I'm 100% certain if my kid was on any team I was coaching and never played him or dropped him from the team, my wife would make it like Swallowing Razor blades for dinner every night!!!

When Ethan Layer's name appeared on the roster, I initially sighed in disbelief that our coach would play favorites with our team. But in reality, father-son combos are not that rare: http://collegehoopedia.com/players/fath ... mbinations . The biggest name on the list may be Pete Maravich. UVa's Tony Bennett is also listed.

And if you watch Lang's video from the Coastal Carolina game, the Coastal coach pays a nice compliment to Ethan's game.

[olldflame]

I once again want to remind everyone that Ethan Layer is NOT, I repeat NOT on scholarship. You can debate as to whether he deserves the amount of PT he has gotten relative to his talent, but the fact is with the exception of last year, when he had back problems, he has often been more effective in his role than some supposedly more "talented" scholarship players who are/were also primarily 3 point shooters. To suggest that DL is somehow abusing his power as coach by giving his son a walkon spot on the roster is just stupid.

[Purple Haize]

I once again want to remind everyone that Ethan Layer is NOT, I repeat NOT on scholarship. You can debate as to whether he deserves the amount of PT he has gotten relative to his talent, but the fact is with the exception of last year, when he had back problems, he has often been more effective in his role than some supposedly more "talented" scholarship players who are/were also primarily 3 point shooters. To suggest that DL is somehow abusing his power as coach by giving his son a walkon spot on the roster is just stupid.

The only one talking about abuse is BJ.
I have no problem with his son walking on. I think his kid is a very very good shooter and very fundamentally sound. But you are correct he is a role player. His job is to go in and shoot 3's. (With thexpectation of making them at a 45%+ clip). You need that type of player when you have other players who try to get to the rim. But you need to hide him on defense and hope he doesn't have to dribble (or is it 'bounce' ) under pressure.

[VAGolf]

I once again want to remind everyone that Ethan Layer is NOT, I repeat NOT on scholarship. You can debate as to whether he deserves the amount of PT he has gotten relative to his talent, but the fact is with the exception of last year, when he had back problems, he has often been more effective in his role than some supposedly more "talented" scholarship players who are/were also primarily 3 point shooters. To suggest that DL is somehow abusing his power as coach by giving his son a walkon spot on the roster is just stupid.

The problem is that we are terrible and Ethan isn't a division 1 player. I'd feel differently if we were a 17 or 18 win team, but we aren't, we won't even win ten games...again. Doug McDermott added value to Creighton when he was there and Creighton was unbelievable that season. We are one of the worst division one programs in the country and the coaches son is getting serious playing time. If anything, it just looks bad.

[olldflame]

I once again want to remind everyone that Ethan Layer is NOT, I repeat NOT on scholarship. You can debate as to whether he deserves the amount of PT he has gotten relative to his talent, but the fact is with the exception of last year, when he had back problems, he has often been more effective in his role than some supposedly more "talented" scholarship players who are/were also primarily 3 point shooters. To suggest that DL is somehow abusing his power as coach by giving his son a walkon spot on the roster is just stupid.

The problem is that we are terrible and Ethan isn't a division 1 player. I'd feel differently if we were a 17 or 18 win team, but we aren't, we won't even win ten games...again. Doug McDermott added value to Creighton when he was there and Creighton was unbelievable that season. We are one of the worst division one programs in the country and the coaches son is getting serious playing time. If anything, it just looks bad.

He plays 10 minutes a game, which makes him the 11th man in our rotation. Only Maxwell, who is a "project" big man with talent, but serious stamina issues, Talbert, who is injured, and the other walkon Hoffman have played less. His role is to come in and shoot the 3, and he has hit 42%. Compare that with Reid, who has played almost twice as many minutes and scored a grand total of 2 more points while hitting 25% from 3. Who do you suggest should get those 10 minutes a game?

[Rooster Cogburn]

Is this a sports message board or general hospital? SMH

[VAGolf]

I once again want to remind everyone that Ethan Layer is NOT, I repeat NOT on scholarship. You can debate as to whether he deserves the amount of PT he has gotten relative to his talent, but the fact is with the exception of last year, when he had back problems, he has often been more effective in his role than some supposedly more "talented" scholarship players who are/were also primarily 3 point shooters. To suggest that DL is somehow abusing his power as coach by giving his son a walkon spot on the roster is just stupid.

The problem is that we are terrible and Ethan isn't a division 1 player. I'd feel differently if we were a 17 or 18 win team, but we aren't, we won't even win ten games...again. Doug McDermott added value to Creighton when he was there and Creighton was unbelievable that season. We are one of the worst division one programs in the country and the coaches son is getting serious playing time. If anything, it just looks bad.

He plays 10 minutes a game, which makes him the 11th man in our rotation. Only Maxwell, who is a "project" big man with talent, but serious stamina issues, Talbert, who is injured, and the other walkon Hoffman have played less. His role is to come in and shoot the 3, and he has hit 42%. Compare that with Reid, who has played almost twice as many minutes and scored a grand total of 2 more points while hitting 25% from 3. Who do you suggest should get those 10 minutes a game?

Someone who doesn't have the last name of Layer. It isn't like we would be worse if Ethan didn't play...

[Purple Haize]

I once again want to remind everyone that Ethan Layer is NOT, I repeat NOT on scholarship. You can debate as to whether he deserves the amount of PT he has gotten relative to his talent, but the fact is with the exception of last year, when he had back problems, he has often been more effective in his role than some supposedly more "talented" scholarship players who are/were also primarily 3 point shooters. To suggest that DL is somehow abusing his power as coach by giving his son a walkon spot on the roster is just stupid.

The problem is that we are terrible and Ethan isn't a division 1 player. I'd feel differently if we were a 17 or 18 win team, but we aren't, we won't even win ten games...again. Doug McDermott added value to Creighton when he was there and Creighton was unbelievable that season. We are one of the worst division one programs in the country and the coaches son is getting serious playing time. If anything, it just looks bad.

He plays 10 minutes a game, which makes him the 11th man in our rotation. Only Maxwell, who is a "project" big man with talent, but serious stamina issues, Talbert, who is injured, and the other walkon Hoffman have played less. His role is to come in and shoot the 3, and he has hit 42%. Compare that with Reid, who has played almost twice as many minutes and scored a grand total of 2 more points while hitting 25% from 3. Who do you suggest should get those 10 minutes a game?

AC Reid should never shoot anything but a lay up. Holy cow does that guy toss in some bricks. Having said that at least he can get to the rim and can defend and handle the ball under pressure better than EL. EL has also started some games which is

[Purple Haize]

Is this a sports message board or general hospital? SMH

As The World Turns. Duh! The world is round. The basketball is round. Although with all the injuries GH may be apt as well.

[comet]

He plays 10 minutes a game, which makes him the 11th man in our rotation. Only Maxwell, who is a "project" big man with talent, but serious stamina issues, Talbert, who is injured, and the other walkon Hoffman have played less. His role is to come in and shoot the 3, and he has hit 42%. Compare that with Reid, who has played almost twice as many minutes and scored a grand total of 2 more points while hitting 25% from 3. Who do you suggest should get those 10 minutes a game?

I think Ethan is good for the team. You're looking at averages, but maybe not the big picture. The team has played from behind most of the season. So I have no issues with dad sending in his kid to shoot 42% from the arc. So let Ethan keep his 10 minutes.

[olldflame]

Fact is we are currently down 2 guards with Retic injured and Moller back in Denmark. Ethan is the only guard we have who is not a Freshman. We NEED minutes from him.

[Purple Haize]

Fact is we are currently down 2 guards with Retic injured and Moller back in Denmark. Ethan is the only guard we have who is not a Freshman. We NEED minutes from him.

This is true. I do think the discussion though is the amount of time he got prior to that.