[jinxy]

There is really only 3 scenarios where we get a 4 star right now
-tim tebow type player who is sold on school. Think a brayden monday type kid that isnt swayed by the names.
-tank land situation, where hes undersized and everybody offers early but most of the big boys pull back late and we win against g5s and lower level p5s
-stephen sings scenario, borderline qualifier who we stay in on and handled perfect and end up signing him.

This class will end up topping the last class. We just need incremental growth and stacking 4 or 5 years of that together will win a lot of games and then see if we can snag a few. We have made the top schools list for a number of kids recently. Weve also come up just short on a couple.

[Ill flame]

I think it's more important to improve the quality of 3* players we are getting. According to 247 our average recruit rating was .806 in 2020. If we can get that to .83 or .84 it would put us on par with the better AAC schools. Even P5 teams like Iowa do well without 4* recruits so it isn't exactly necessary to compete with the big boys.

[Class of 20Something]

I think it's more important to improve the quality of 3* players we are getting. According to 247 our average recruit rating was .806 in 2020. If we can get that to .83 or .84 it would put us on par with the better AAC schools. Even P5 teams like Iowa do well without 4* recruits so it isn't exactly necessary to compete with the big boys.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/g ... =400869656

Yes it is.

[Ill flame]

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Io ... tball_team]

They were 2-3 against ranked teams and didn't lose a game by more than a touchdown last season. If that isn't "competing with the big boys" idk what is. Using a historically good FCS school that has consistently beaten fbs schools isn't a very good argument.

[tyndal23]

Good recruiting doesn’t guaranty good teams ( Texas) and after the top 15-20 class rankings or so the evaluations are much less accurate - picking out 4 and 5 star can’t miss types are pretty simple - over looking an AGG by a recruiting service happens a ton down in the 2 and no * level BUT - there is an over all consistent talent difference between 80 and 85 using 247 model. 85 Average over 4 years doesn’t guaranty success but it would make LU pretty competitive With talent and depth against all but the elite playoff caliber teams. Can LU win P5 games here and there averaging 80 or less absolutely !!! Could LU average 85 by budgeting, scheduling and recruiting 6-7 P5 games - I really believe so ( yes a hypothetical ) But do any of you think even our current staff couldn’t do that with a top P5 recruiting budget tied in with it?

[Ill flame]

Good recruiting doesn’t guaranty good teams ( Texas) and after the top 15-20 class rankings or so the evaluations are much less accurate - picking out 4 and 5 star can’t miss types are pretty simple - over looking an AGG by a recruiting service happens a ton down in the 2 and no * level BUT - there is an over all consistent talent difference between 80 and 85 using 247 model. 85 Average over 4 years doesn’t guaranty success but it would make LU pretty competitive With talent and depth against all but the elite playoff caliber teams. Can LU win P5 games here and there averaging 80 or less absolutely !!! Could LU average 85 by budgeting, scheduling and recruiting 6-7 P5 games - I really believe so ( yes a hypothetical ) But do any of you think even our current staff couldn’t do that with a top P5 recruiting budget tied in with it?

It's not the budget that gets the recruits although it helps. Conference, location, fan support, facilities among other factors are more important to the overwhelming majority of recruits. It's not very debatable that if a recruit is choosing between p5 schools or g5 schools they will choose the p5 school 95+% of the time.

I think HF is doing a great job of finding those under recruited players that could play for a p5 and recruiting them early. Unfortunately as soon as a lower level p5 also finds out about those guys we lose. For example, every Illinois commit or target from Georgia has an offer from LU.

[tyndal23]

Good recruiting doesn’t guaranty good teams ( Texas) and after the top 15-20 class rankings or so the evaluations are much less accurate - picking out 4 and 5 star can’t miss types are pretty simple - over looking an AGG by a recruiting service happens a ton down in the 2 and no * level BUT - there is an over all consistent talent difference between 80 and 85 using 247 model. 85 Average over 4 years doesn’t guaranty success but it would make LU pretty competitive With talent and depth against all but the elite playoff caliber teams. Can LU win P5 games here and there averaging 80 or less absolutely !!! Could LU average 85 by budgeting, scheduling and recruiting 6-7 P5 games - I really believe so ( yes a hypothetical ) But do any of you think even our current staff couldn’t do that with a top P5 recruiting budget tied in with it?

It's not the budget that gets the recruits although it helps. Conference, location, fan support, facilities among other factors are more important to the overwhelming majority of recruits. It's not very debatable that if a recruit is choosing between p5 schools or g5 schools they will choose the p5 school 95+% of the time.

I think HF is doing a great job of finding those under recruited players that could play for a p5 and recruiting them early. Unfortunately as soon as a lower level p5 also finds out about those guys we lose. For example, every Illinois commit or target from Georgia has an offer from LU.

A recruiting budget of $ 1.5 million wouldn’t guaranty a good recruiting class but it is a tangible area where we could spend Invest $ and max out national recruiting and marketing. CA has a ton of great conservative Christian schools with great athletes and most of them are going out of state and out of the PAC 12 in last few years. If I didn’t believe we could recruit at a top 40 level Immediately and consistently with that schedule - I wouldn’t be pushing the rest of the P5 level Indie plan. ( when I say immediate I am factoring in minimum of 2 years from publicly announcing we are elevating our budget to P5 levels - signed a 5 year $ $5 million per year deal with Incentives with a HF type coach and are scheduling 7 P5 or equivalent type games - so if 2026 was the schedule - then would announce early in class of 24 recruiting cycle. ).

[Purple Haize]

Where does $1.5 million in recruiting budget rank with other schools ?
What is LU’s current recruiting budget? How does that measure up with other schools?
What coaches are making $5 million a year?
Where does HF contract put him on FBS coaches salaries?

[Ill flame]

Good recruiting doesn’t guaranty good teams ( Texas) and after the top 15-20 class rankings or so the evaluations are much less accurate - picking out 4 and 5 star can’t miss types are pretty simple - over looking an AGG by a recruiting service happens a ton down in the 2 and no * level BUT - there is an over all consistent talent difference between 80 and 85 using 247 model. 85 Average over 4 years doesn’t guaranty success but it would make LU pretty competitive With talent and depth against all but the elite playoff caliber teams. Can LU win P5 games here and there averaging 80 or less absolutely !!! Could LU average 85 by budgeting, scheduling and recruiting 6-7 P5 games - I really believe so ( yes a hypothetical ) But do any of you think even our current staff couldn’t do that with a top P5 recruiting budget tied in with it?

It's not the budget that gets the recruits although it helps. Conference, location, fan support, facilities among other factors are more important to the overwhelming majority of recruits. It's not very debatable that if a recruit is choosing between p5 schools or g5 schools they will choose the p5 school 95+% of the time.

I think HF is doing a great job of finding those under recruited players that could play for a p5 and recruiting them early. Unfortunately as soon as a lower level p5 also finds out about those guys we lose. For example, every Illinois commit or target from Georgia has an offer from LU.

A recruiting budget of $ 1.5 million wouldn’t guaranty a good recruiting class but it is a tangible area where we could spend Invest $ and max out national recruiting and marketing. CA has a ton of great conservative Christian schools with great athletes and most of them are going out of state and out of the PAC 12 in last few years. If I didn’t believe we could recruit at a top 40 level Immediately and consistently with that schedule - I wouldn’t be pushing the rest of the P5 level Indie plan. ( when I say immediate I am factoring in minimum of 2 years from publicly announcing we are elevating our budget to P5 levels - signed a 5 year $ $5 million per year deal with Incentives with a HF type coach and are scheduling 7 P5 or equivalent type games - so if 2026 was the schedule - then would announce early in class of 24 recruiting cycle. ).

https://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2019 ... -p5-school

There really isn't a strong correlation between recruiting budget and winning based on this chart. Wisconsin is pulling in top 30 recruiting classes with a $300,000 budget.

[Purple Haize]

So I read that as only 6 schools have recruiting budgets of over 1.5 million. Surprised that Tennessee is one and Auburn is not. It that only answers one of my questions. The next obvious being what is LU’s recruiting budget? Tech was around $500. Michigan St $750k.
Wisconsin does not surprise me because they stay pretty regional. Nebraska used to so their number surprised me.

[tyndal23]

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

[Ill flame]

I could see us giving him a range to the $3 million range but much more than that would be a little too much considering our attendance/ tv deal. That money could be spent elsewhere to improve the school in other ways.

[Purple Haize]

Purdue is paying $6 million they are notoriously tight fisted.
So $5 million puts LU at Top 15 in terms of Salary and at $1.5 for recruiting puts them at Top 6. So for 2 line items that’s $6.6 million dollars. That does not include any assistant coaches. Or any other sports. The last numbers I renter seeing were that LU’s total athletic budget was 45ish million. That would tie up over 10% of the budget on 2 line items. Of course you just increase the the overall budget and that % goes down.
Did we ever get a final number on HF contract $$ or the recruiting budget?

[tyndal23]

Purdue is paying $6 million they are notoriously tight fisted.
So $5 million puts LU at Top 15 in terms of Salary and at $1.5 for recruiting puts them at Top 6. So for 2 line items that’s $6.6 million dollars. That does not include any assistant coaches. Or any other sports. The last numbers I renter seeing were that LU’s total athletic budget was 45ish million. That would tie up over 10% of the budget on 2 line items. Of course you just increase the the overall budget and that % goes down.
Did we ever get a final number on HF contract $$ or the recruiting budget?

Waiting on Ballcoaches sources...

[tyndal23]

Purdue is paying $6 million they are notoriously tight fisted.
So $5 million puts LU at Top 15 in terms of Salary and at $1.5 for recruiting puts them at Top 6. So for 2 line items that’s $6.6 million dollars. That does not include any assistant coaches. Or any other sports. The last numbers I renter seeing were that LU’s total athletic budget was 45ish million. That would tie up over 10% of the budget on 2 line items. Of course you just increase the the overall budget and that % goes down.
Did we ever get a final number on HF contract $$ or the recruiting budget?

Waiting on Ballcoaches sources...

The overall budget would increase - not stealing from existing budget. As for HC salary, staff and recruiting budget ( and obvious AD bump in salary ) JR can justify $ that he planned on putting in to next expansion - take a 5 year plan invest an extra $12 -$15million annually - $ 5m to entice 2 P5 teams to visit without a 2 for 1, other towards salaries budgets etc. Extra coaching pay is for tenure and your asking him to do a very tough task - 7 road games but your also giving him every tool ( huge recruiting budget ). Turn Ian loose with the new directive on scheduling. The payoff is maybe a decade away financially but We can play for 25 years at G5 and not get the investment Already made back.

[Ill flame]

Purdue is paying $6 million they are notoriously tight fisted.
So $5 million puts LU at Top 15 in terms of Salary and at $1.5 for recruiting puts them at Top 6. So for 2 line items that’s $6.6 million dollars. That does not include any assistant coaches. Or any other sports. The last numbers I renter seeing were that LU’s total athletic budget was 45ish million. That would tie up over 10% of the budget on 2 line items. Of course you just increase the the overall budget and that % goes down.
Did we ever get a final number on HF contract $$ or the recruiting budget?

[https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... -5-coaches]

Is this article incorrect? It says he's on a 5 year deal with $2 million a year. That puts him at roughly 70 for highest salary. It's towards the top of G5 coaches salaries although they are growing fast.

I think it's also important to have a big enough assistant coach salary pool to surround HF with solid guys. I have no clue what ours looks like. Also it's no coincidence that the bottom of the big ten went out and spent a lot of money on coaches around the time they signed that huge tv deal.

[Purple Haize]

Purdue is paying $6 million they are notoriously tight fisted.
So $5 million puts LU at Top 15 in terms of Salary and at $1.5 for recruiting puts them at Top 6. So for 2 line items that’s $6.6 million dollars. That does not include any assistant coaches. Or any other sports. The last numbers I renter seeing were that LU’s total athletic budget was 45ish million. That would tie up over 10% of the budget on 2 line items. Of course you just increase the the overall budget and that % goes down.
Did we ever get a final number on HF contract $$ or the recruiting budget?

[https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... -5-coaches]

Is this article incorrect? It says he's on a 5 year deal with $2 million a year. That puts him at roughly 70 for highest salary. It's towards the top of G5 coaches salaries although they are growing fast.

I also think it's also important to have a big enough assistant coach salary pool to surround HF with solid guys. I have no clue what ours looks like. Also it's no coincidence that the bottom of the big ten went out and spent a lot of money on coaches around the time they signed that huge tv deal.

I would imagine that is correct. Puts him and LU in good company Ahead of some P5 coaches and even ND

[Ill flame]

There is no way ND is paying less than that. This source is a little outdated but overall it gives a good overview of where we stand which is towards the top of G5 in coaches pay.

[tyndal23]

There is no way ND is paying less than that. This source is a little outdated but overall it gives a good overview of where we stand which is towards the top of G5 in coaches pay.

Source was 2019. I agree that Kelly has to be making a ton more but probably some sort of booster funding outside athletic department.

[Cider Jim]

Puts him and LU in good company Ahead of some P5 coaches and even ND.

Ballcoach has to be LOVING that!

[Cider Jim]

double post (sorry!).

[cruzan_flame13]

Does anyone know how much spots we will have for this upcoming class. How many are seniors or will be graduating during the 2020-21 school year?

[cruzan_flame13]

Was this for another commit or for something else?

[sstaedtler]

Was this for another commit or for something else?

i think it has to be a recruit. Not only did Hugh Freeze post this, but the OL and DL line coaches all posted it.

[FlamesHighontheTide]

Excited to see who it is.