Your home to discuss Liberty football recruiting. Prospect profiles, the latest commitments, prospects, and much more.

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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#542429
We return 18 starters ? I would not call that a "giant sweeping rebuilding year"

I totally get the sentiment, but also realize it could be much much worse. We could not be landing very highly rated recruits at positions of need in the future.
By ALAFlamesFan
Registration Days Posts
#542431
I am ok with stockpiling linemen. Play a couple right away and redshirt a couple. I agree that in the future you need to balance a recruiting class with a few at each position every year. One decent class does not make a great football team. Also, this class is shaping up to be the best in our history but it still puts us at the bottom of FBS recruiting classes as a whole. I am not complaining. I am just pointing out that this is only a start and we are behind.

As for the current OL. I am sure they are great guys but we couldnt sustain a running game against big south competition. We are not playing a big south schedule next year.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#542432
I should probably take some fault with my wording above...In saying that we have a whole starting five, I was not necessarily saying that the whole group would start right away, but it can certainly help to have that to add to our potential depth at the position. That certainly will make for some problems a few years down the road having to replace an entire group again as you astutely note relating to the LB position Jon
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#542435
I agree we need to land one or more quality LB in this class, but the cupboard is not as bare as it looks. We have Ajayi redshirting, who will almost certainly start next year and likely be an upgrade. Also redshirting are a couple of FR. I mentioned it before, but I will not be at all surprised if Tillman is moved to LB as well, and I think with an added 10 lbs or so, he can be better at LB than he was at Safety.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#542438
R i wrote:We return 18 starters ? I would not call that a "giant sweeping rebuilding year"

I totally get the sentiment, but also realize it could be much much worse. We could not be landing very highly rated recruits at positions of need in the future.
My concern isn't next year. It's once those guys graduate and we have a ton of players in on position and not any in others.

The way we build our classes, we will always be super young in one position instead of being balanced.
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By FlamesHighontheTide
Registration Days Posts
#542439
I agree in years past we stock-piled FCS level o-lineman and some d-lineman. Further, it came back to bite us in the butt due to something because it could be a few different things. It is possible that some of these guys in the past left because they couldn't abide by the Liberty Way or because they weren't getting the playing time they thought they deserved. At this moment with what we know (which is very little) about each of these O-line and D-line recruits is that most are rated with stars and a majority of them were recruited by academies or higher academic institutions as well as P5 schools. This FBS move will hopefully get us some higher character kids that will actually stick it out. Though to your point Jonathan, recruiting is a crapshoot at the end of the day.

Also, in regards to the LB issue. Trust me on this that the coaching staff is more aware then we are and just wait it out because there are some STUD juco's who are high on us and Gill is known for uncovering a diamond in the rough kind of player.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#542447
R i wrote:We return 18 starters ? I would not call that a "giant sweeping rebuilding year"

I totally get the sentiment, but also realize it could be much much worse. We could not be landing very highly rated recruits at positions of need in the future.
Excuse me if I can't get excited about returning 18 starters from an under-performing 6-5 team that lost to St. Francis, Monmouth, Duquense, etc. That really doesn't seem like a strength to me.
I would also say that in the last 6 years, our current staff has not recruited well. If they did, we would have a much better record and be more prepared to go to FBS. TG said that is why he came here, to go to FBS. It shouldn't have caught anyone by surprise. That aside, even if we were shocked to get an FBS invite, we were not even a top-tier FCS program. We have not recruited or executed well during TG's era. Hopefully we can turn it around, but you know what they say the definition of insanity is.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#542448
FlamesHighontheTide wrote:I agree in years past we stock-piled FCS level o-lineman and some d-lineman. Further, it came back to bite us in the butt due to something because it could be a few different things. It is possible that some of these guys in the past left because they couldn't abide by the Liberty Way or because they weren't getting the playing time they thought they deserved. At this moment with what we know (which is very little) about each of these O-line and D-line recruits is that most are rated with stars and a majority of them were recruited by academies or higher academic institutions as well as P5 schools. This FBS move will hopefully get us some higher character kids that will actually stick it out. Though to your point Jonathan, recruiting is a crapshoot at the end of the day.

Also, in regards to the LB issue. Trust me on this that the coaching staff is more aware then we are and just wait it out because there are some STUD juco's who are high on us and Gill is known for uncovering a diamond in the rough kind of player.
He hasn't done it in the last six years. He can't ride that LB from Buffalo get, for the rest of his career. Even a blind pig finds an acorn every now and then.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#542449
ALAFlamesFan wrote:I am ok with stockpiling linemen. Play a couple right away and redshirt a couple. I agree that in the future you need to balance a recruiting class with a few at each position every year. One decent class does not make a great football team. Also, this class is shaping up to be the best in our history but it still puts us at the bottom of FBS recruiting classes as a whole. I am not complaining. I am just pointing out that this is only a start and we are behind.

As for the current OL. I am sure they are great guys but we couldnt sustain a running game against big south competition. We are not playing a big south schedule next year.
With all due respect, we will have no idea how good/bad this class is for almost another year. Recruiting is no different that the draft. You still have your Ryan Leaf's and J. Maronivich's, etc. every year. If you go back and look on this site, almost every year is declared the best recruiting class we have ever had. Unfortunately, it hasn't panned out that way when they get on the field. Especially the last 5-6 years.
#542451
For the record, none of these guys are in the pros or at the level of Khalil Mack. However, they have been diamond in the rough types due to lack of interest in them by FBS or FCS schools in high school. Also, none of these guys were associated with stars next to their name as far as I could tell. In other words, there wasn't much expectation for any of these guys coming in and they have produced for us!

1. Dontae Duff
2. Juwan Wells
3. Chris Turner (at times he shows incredible potential)
4. BJ Farrow
5. John Lunsford
6. Chima Uzowihe
7-9 are on the right track to be like these above.
7. Thomas Sergeant
8. Elisha Mitchell
9. Remington Green
#542452
of course, with 7-9 there may be a significant drop in their playing time as we get higher quality players coming in to the Burg. But. . . you never know how those guys will respond! Looking forward to the future!
By willflop
Posts
#542453
Although Calvert seems to be a good get, I think how the whole QB scenario played out is a good example of our recruiting mismanagement. The staff either knew, or should have known, what they had with Masha. It wasn't going to work. Calvert, or his 3 star equivalent, should have been recruited and red shirted in 2014, rode the bench in 2015, with some series here and there if the game allowed it, and took over in 2016 ready to go. Instead, we go into the 2016 season limping along, just waiting until our true freshman can get enough practices in before tacking over. You shouldn't have a rebuilding year every 3rd and 4th years.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#542455
flameshaw wrote:
R i wrote:We return 18 starters ? I would not call that a "giant sweeping rebuilding year"

I totally get the sentiment, but also realize it could be much much worse. We could not be landing very highly rated recruits at positions of need in the future.
Excuse me if I can't get excited about returning 18 starters from an under-performing 6-5 team that lost to St. Francis, Monmouth, Duquense, etc. That really doesn't seem like a strength to me.
I would also say that in the last 6 years, our current staff has not recruited well. If they did, we would have a much better record and be more prepared to go to FBS. TG said that is why he came here, to go to FBS. It shouldn't have caught anyone by surprise. That aside, even if we were shocked to get an FBS invite, we were not even a top-tier FCS program. We have not recruited or executed well during TG's era. Hopefully we can turn it around, but you know what they say the definition of insanity is.
Your point is taken, but for the record, we beat Duquesne. Having a lot of starters back from a mediocre team is only bad if you are satisfied with the status quo and are not working like crazy to get better players in the program and totally willing to play the new guys if they demonstrate they are an upgrade.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#542456
willflop wrote:Although Calvert seems to be a good get, I think how the whole QB scenario played out is a good example of our recruiting mismanagement. The staff either knew, or should have known, what they had with Masha. It wasn't going to work. Calvert, or his 3 star equivalent, should have been recruited and red shirted in 2014, rode the bench in 2015, with some series here and there if the game allowed it, and took over in 2016 ready to go. Instead, we go into the 2016 season limping along, just waiting until our true freshman can get enough practices in before tacking over. You shouldn't have a rebuilding year every 3rd and 4th years.
Let me refresh your memory by saying that until the start of the 2016 seasons, Masha's body of work consisted of a 4 touchdown, 300 yard game against CSU and the biggest win in program history against Coastal. What happened in between was an extremely poor job by Joe Daley and Gill of developing and utilizing his talents. He lost confidence and regressed rather than improving because his strengths were not appreciated.
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#542460
In all seriousness, with all these linemen visiting, I hope LU 's #1 ranked cafeteria in part of the recruiting visit: the quality and the variety of the the food there is AMAZING!
By willflop
Posts
#542463
olldflame wrote:
willflop wrote:Although Calvert seems to be a good get, I think how the whole QB scenario played out is a good example of our recruiting mismanagement. The staff either knew, or should have known, what they had with Masha. It wasn't going to work. Calvert, or his 3 star equivalent, should have been recruited and red shirted in 2014, rode the bench in 2015, with some series here and there if the game allowed it, and took over in 2016 ready to go. Instead, we go into the 2016 season limping along, just waiting until our true freshman can get enough practices in before tacking over. You shouldn't have a rebuilding year every 3rd and 4th years.
Let me refresh your memory by saying that until the start of the 2016 seasons, Masha's body of work consisted of a 4 touchdown, 300 yard game against CSU and the biggest win in program history against Coastal. What happened in between was an extremely poor job by Joe Daley and Gill of developing and utilizing his talents. He lost confidence and regressed rather than improving because his strengths were not appreciated.
Inductive fallacy much?
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By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#542469
They have whiffed several times. Jt bradwell was the 3 star to follow woodrum. However he was not a fit for LU. We are in the same boat this year. Thats why i said lynum is so important to this class. Masha was never goinf to be a high end qb. He was a decent recruit but it was obvious to everyone i talked to that he was not starting material.

The d line last year was the same situation. Frazer brown and hamilton were not lu fits, especially frazier. We should have brought in several juco bodies this spring after lewis deommitted. Trey franklin wasnt enough.

This year is all about building. Get as much talent as you can. Load em up and let the cards fall. It does seem that most of the kid this year are better lu fits. At least they dont publically put out garbage on twitter like some of the aforementioned did. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes if they are that willing to put it on twitter. FBS will help with this part of recruiting big time.
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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#542471
If you have heard buckshot or his dad at all, you know that he was not coming to LU without a good idea he was going to play as a true freshman.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#542473
jinxy wrote:They have whiffed several times. Jt bradwell was the 3 star to follow woodrum. However he was not a fit for LU. We are in the same boat this year. Thats why i said lynum is so important to this class. Masha was never goinf to be a high end qb. He was a decent recruit but it was obvious to everyone i talked to that he was not starting material.

The d line last year was the same situation. Frazer brown and hamilton were not lu fits, especially frazier. We should have brought in several juco bodies this spring after lewis deommitted. Trey franklin wasnt enough.

This year is all about building. Get as much talent as you can. Load em up and let the cards fall. It does seem that most of the kid this year are better lu fits. At least they dont publically put out garbage on twitter like some of the aforementioned did. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes if they are that willing to put it on twitter. FBS will help with this part of recruiting big time.
I will agree that we came up short in bolstering our roster with JUCO players in the 2017 class, but there were legit reasons, and I reject the idea that concerted efforts were not made.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#542498
jinxy wrote:They have whiffed several times. Jt bradwell was the 3 star to follow woodrum. However he was not a fit for LU. We are in the same boat this year. Thats why i said lynum is so important to this class. Masha was never goinf to be a high end qb. He was a decent recruit but it was obvious to everyone i talked to that he was not starting material.

The d line last year was the same situation. Frazer brown and hamilton were not lu fits, especially frazier. We should have brought in several juco bodies this spring after lewis deommitted. Trey franklin wasnt enough.

This year is all about building. Get as much talent as you can. Load em up and let the cards fall. It does seem that most of the kid this year are better lu fits. At least they dont publically put out garbage on twitter like some of the aforementioned did. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes if they are that willing to put it on twitter. FBS will help with this part of recruiting big time.
I was blown away that Masha was considered qb material by TG based on his history of being a QB (and finishing 4th in the Heisman voting). The very first time I saw him you could tell his release was too high, he didn't have the arm strength, etc. (I commented on it here, so I am not being a 20/20 hindsight Monday morning QB). He was a good athlete, that had a couple of good games for us, but was a round peg in a square hole. Not really his fault.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#542500
FlamesHighontheTide wrote:For the record, none of these guys are in the pros or at the level of Khalil Mack. However, they have been diamond in the rough types due to lack of interest in them by FBS or FCS schools in high school. Also, none of these guys were associated with stars next to their name as far as I could tell. In other words, there wasn't much expectation for any of these guys coming in and they have produced for us!

1. Dontae Duff
2. Juwan Wells
3. Chris Turner (at times he shows incredible potential)
4. BJ Farrow
5. John Lunsford
6. Chima Uzowihe
7-9 are on the right track to be like these above.
7. Thomas Sergeant
8. Elisha Mitchell
9. Remington Green
Whatever.................................. BJ Farrow was offered by VT. Kickers are not a priority of FCS teams. I read somewhere, where Rocco gave the first full scholarship to a kicker, ever for LU (no first hand knowledge of that). If you offer enough guys with no other offers (we were good at that), some will turn out well. Not going to get in a contest over this........... it is subjective at best. Bottom line, we are worse off now than when TG got here. Hopefully this will turn around quickly with the extra scholarships we can now give out, I guess we will see.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#542578
According to both his Twitter and his father's, DL commit Emmanuel Cater is now a 3 star recruit. That would give us 4 so far, with a couple more very much in play.
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