[SuperJon]

Smoothie, wasn't really saying it to you. The "I-A Now" guys say we're a national school, and now one of their own is saying we need to be a VA school.

[Stevev]

I agree with LU having the best facilities and our regional recruiting has improved a bit but not sure how we compare with JMU, Richmond, or W & M.. The locals might know more. But the perception of LU football is out there that we play in a horrible conference with a weak schedule. If we played and beat those teams then the perception would fade away.

[bigsmooth]

i hear you SJ. i just think that if we recruit well in virginia, the name get out there quicker and we can fill up our stadium quicker, and devlop a bigger fan base...then go very hard nationally.

[SuperJon]

Look Steve, I'm going to dumb this down as much as possible so that maybe you can get it through your thick skull.

Fan perception and recruiting are not the same thing. They're just not. Simply put, they're not the same thing. What fans have the perception of and what goes on in the recruiting process are not the same thing. What Joe Fan thinks of a school does not matter when kids are getting recruited because they are not the same thing. They're different.

[Sly Fox]

I think you guys are correct in some manner but you are looking at this issue from different perspectives.

Is William & Mary among the elite of the I-AA landscape right now? Probably not but they have spent so much time there that the perception among casual college football fans is that a win over the Tribe would be significant. I agree that technically speaking the CSU win last year might have greater standing nationwide at that moment. But CSU does not have a national reputation like W&M much less the standing in general that the College enjoys in the commonwealth.

And may I remind you guys that we have never been able to beat these guys even though we probably should have last fall at homecoming?

As for where the Tribe stood before the year as opposed to right now, I think everyone in Williamsburg and most everywhere would agree that they appear much sharper now than what we saw last fall. Its possible they could be a ranked team in just a few weeks if they continue to put things together. We won't know for a month or so how good they really are this fall. Either way, I'll consider a win over them tomorrow perhaps the finest of Rocco's tenure at LU. Hopefully even better ones come shortly thereafter. But this one is significant.

[SuperJon]

If they turn out to be good, sure, great win. But you realize we did beat a team that was nationally ranked and had something like a 15 game winning streak last year, right? I don't care that they played St. Mary's School For The Blind every week. We also beat a team from the mighty Southern Conference as well. If we're basing things on conference affiliation, then the Western shutout had to be pretty big.

"Win significance" should be on what the team has done lately at the time of the win. That's why Coastal can say they knocked off the #1 team in the country in JMU in 05. They don't have to mention that JMU wasn't JMU that year. They were #1 at the time. If W&M turns out to be good, then awesome, it'd be a great win. But right now, what they are is a 3-8 team with a 1-1 record. That's not what I consider "greatest win" in any category.

[jcmanson]

IMO, if we win tomorrow this WILL be Rocco's biggest win here.

[prototype]

I think you guys are giving way to much credit to W&M's D. They couldn't stop a concrete block.

Liberty 54
W&M 27

I think you are giving too much credit to your own team. So you think LU has a stronger offense than UD and a better D?

Well, maybe - what I really saying is that your D blows! I think West Chester has a better D than you - they only gave up 41 to U of D.

If we were playing U of D, my score might change, but we are playing W&M, and believe me your more Mary than William right now.

Go Flames!!

[Fumblerooskies]

Perhaps not greatest win...but how about most significant win?

[SuperJon]

Significant? I can possibly give you that. Best? Nope.

[Chris Lang]

No disrespect, but Charleston Southern's ranking was a figment of people going ... oh look, they're 9-0, we have to rank them! Most national voters have no clue of who's good and who isn't outside the schools they cover. They just don't. Charleston Southern did not deserved to be ranked last year. Neither did San Diego. Neither team beat ANYONE. CSU's only wins of significance during their 14-game win streak came thanks to a fluke play against Coastal Carolina and came in a shootout with a bad Citadel team.

And let me remind everyone, Liberty has been awful against the CAA ... no matter if said CAA team was bad or good. The only win in the last 10 games against CAA teams was against a 2-10 Hofstra team, and LU needed overtime to beat them at home. IMO, if Liberty loses this game Saturday, it destroys all of the credibility of the "resurgence" of the Flames program. So in that respect, no a win at W&M wouldn't be that huge of a deal, but a loss would be devastating. That's no disrespect to W&M, but if Liberty wants to be a respected player, it needs to get a CAA notch on its belt.

[bigsmooth]

nicely put lang!

[Stevev]

I agree Chris. The pressure is more on us than it is on William and Mary. If we loose, a lot of our credability will be lost and because of our weak schedule it will be very hard to make it up.

[new flame]

W&M Prediction #1: 27-17 LU
W&M Prediction #2: This thread goes way off topic again real soon.
*************
Not that you all'd be as excited as me and mine, but me and mine are moving to Lynchburg by end of October. If anyone knows of a house for sale (3,000 sq. feet; 5+ acres of land; adjacent to Appalachian Trail; on black-diamond ski slope; <$300k price tag. On a lake, too.), lemme know.

See off topic already.

[TIMSCAR20]

W&M Prediction #1: 27-17 LU
W&M Prediction #2: This thread goes way off topic again real soon.
*************
Not that you all'd be as excited as me and mine, but me and mine are moving to Lynchburg by end of October. If anyone knows of a house for sale (3,000 sq. feet; 5+ acres of land; adjacent to Appalachian Trail; on black-diamond ski slope; <$300k price tag. On a lake, too.), lemme know.

See off topic already.

A few months earlier and you could have purchased Stately Scarborough Manor. Well New Flame, I want a chance to visit the new digs when I am in town too.

[new flame]

Believe me, SCAR, I've thought of that stately manor more than once since then. This time, the move is for real...job's lined up. Think we'll be looking around Forest; got family nearby and won't have to fight traffic on my way to hit the Trail. Or the slopes. Any good wakeboarding in that area, or is SML the best for that?

[LUconn]

SML is too crowded for that. 1.5 hour drive to Bug's Island/Kerr Lake. Barely any boat traffic, you just have to watch out for the occasional sandbar or random floating log. But I suppose this is a topic for another forum.

[kevinrmcguire]

Liberty - 27
W&M - 14

[SuperJon]

No disrespect, but Charleston Southern's ranking was a figment of people going ... oh look, they're 9-0, we have to rank them! Most national voters have no clue of who's good and who isn't outside the schools they cover. They just don't. Charleston Southern did not deserved to be ranked last year. Neither did San Diego. Neither team beat ANYONE. CSU's only wins of significance during their 14-game win streak came thanks to a fluke play against Coastal Carolina and came in a shootout with a bad Citadel team.

And let me remind everyone, Liberty has been awful against the CAA ... no matter if said CAA team was bad or good. The only win in the last 10 games against CAA teams was against a 2-10 Hofstra team, and LU needed overtime to beat them at home. IMO, if Liberty loses this game Saturday, it destroys all of the credibility of the "resurgence" of the Flames program. So in that respect, no a win at W&M wouldn't be that huge of a deal, but a loss would be devastating. That's no disrespect to W&M, but if Liberty wants to be a respected player, it needs to get a CAA notch on its belt.

I actually agree with all of that. I know CSU wasn't good, but they were #24. You're a sports writer so of course you phrased it better than me, but your last lines are what I've been trying to say. If we beat W&M, big friggin deal. It doesn't mean much. If we lose to them, well, then that'll suck big ones.

[kel varson]

WM 31

LU 28

[SuperJon]

SML is too crowded for that. 1.5 hour drive to Bug's Island/Kerr Lake. Barely any boat traffic, you just have to watch out for the occasional sandbar or random floating log. But I suppose this is a topic for another forum.

It depends on when you go. Last time I was at SML there was NOBODY on the lake and that was early August. It's hit or miss. Sunday afternoons are great there.

[new flame]

SML is too crowded for that. 1.5 hour drive to Bug's Island/Kerr Lake.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

[flameshaw]

Chris, good thoughts, but have to disagree that a loss would be devastating, especially since we don't know how good W&M is for sure. Would certainly be a big/disappointing loss and a setback for sure.
SJ, I wouldn't beat up W&M too bad, IF we win (and yes we should have last year), I would like to think we beat a pretty good team, not someone who is a bad team and lucky to be 1AA or some other analogy.
Just my .02

[SuperJon]

I don't think they're bad. They've proved that they're not bad. I'm just trying to point out that they're not an elite CAA team like Steve's making them out to be with his Colonial hard on (I just wanted to use that phrase again).

[Stevev]

Kind of liked that one myself. Nice talking to you. Got to get back to work now.