Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

#638705
Curious what your eyeballs are seeing about the creative ways Programs are using NIL deals to lure players from other programs and in recruiting tactics. In my eyes, it is the wild west again (ala SMU / Miami of the 80's) with crazy deals that have nothing to do an athlete's profile in endeavors outside of the game. My opinion is players should be able to monetize on their likeness or marketability, if it is the players doing the legwork. With schools or athletic departments serving as agents, some changes and restrictions are inevitable. SEC schools seem to be the ones reaping the heaviest gains from this new frontier. Even poaching from other SEC programs. How does this affect smaller market programs, such as LU moving forward?

NIL + Transfer Portal = ___X____ ???
#638706
Interesting take from a Arkansas Razorback perspective. Hogs have been poached hard coming off a great season and lots of good energy from the hiring of Sam Pittman, who seems to be loved by all. Something seems fishy when 3 starters entered the portal and all end up at LSU...

https://www.wholehogsports.com/news/202 ... ng-absurd/
#638710
Don't have much to say about NIL. I don't really care just means that Bama, Clemson, Georgia, OSU, and all the other schools can legally do what they've been doing so who really cares.

As far as the portal it has become ridiculous with so many players jumping around everywhere. I'd love for guys to stick around 4 years. The smaller schools would have the opportunity to find and keep that diamond in the rough without a Power 5 swooping in. Or smaller schools can have guys play together for several years and really mesh well to put a great team on the field one year and have the opportunity to do something special like a NY6 bowl.

But on the other hand the vast majority of these guys have limited future playing the game since they won't be in the NFL. So with that being said if you aren't playing by all means go somewhere you can get playing time. Enjoy your college years and have fun. And if you've got an opportunity to play at Oklahoma or Bama why would anyone say no to that?
With all that being said I don't know how I feel about the portal. I'm pretty torn.
#638719
[quote=jmclaughlin post_id=638705 time=1642177620 user_id=70551]
Curious what your eyeballs are seeing about the creative ways Programs are using NIL deals to lure players from other programs and in recruiting tactics. In my eyes, it is the wild west again (ala SMU / Miami of the 80's) with crazy deals that have nothing to do an athlete's profile in endeavors outside of the game. My opinion is players should be able to monetize on their likeness or marketability, if it is the players doing the legwork. With schools or athletic departments serving as agents, some changes and restrictions are inevitable. SEC schools seem to be the ones reaping the heaviest gains from this new frontier. Even poaching from other SEC programs. How does this affect smaller market programs, such as LU moving forward?

NIL + Transfer Portal = ___X____ ???
[/quote]

What restrictions do you see as inevitable? I’m not sure what can be put in to place The only thing I’ve seen is possibly a type of salary cap but not sure how that would work.
I see it as an Avenue for parity actually. Look at what Deon Sanders has done. You’ll also have people being offered “2nd Tier” deals at Big U but Tier 1 deals at State. Maybe less money but more exposure etc.
You are correct that this just legitimizes the antics of The U and the Pony Express. But now everyone can play!
#638721
Changes and restrictions are inevitable because schools are not even trying to stay in the parameters. One restriction I anticipate is a vetting process in how the NIL deal came about and how it will be beneficial to the independent partners (not the school). Tell me the NCAA isn't letting the crazy happen so they can come in and solve the issue. Power always loves more power.

"A NIL deal cannot pay a player with the sole intent for the athlete to attend a school."

I linked an article that cited multiple cases of schools not even trying to hide the offers for anyone who attends.
Here is an excerpt:
It was thought an athlete’s marketability would attract businesses and be compensated, but boosters are throwing out blanket offers in hopes of luring prospects.

Miami businessman Dan Lambert has offered $500 a month to the Hurricanes’ football scholarship players to advertise American Top Team, a chain of mixed martial arts facilities. “They’re giving every scholarship player a certain amount,” Turnage said. “So opponents of that are saying how [can you do] NIL if you don’t know who the players are. You’re literally just paying them to come to school.

Texas A&M has signed a consensus No. 1 ranked 2022 recruiting class in the nation and the best class in school history. Aggie boosters reportedly spent millions to help lure the prospects to ink with A&M.

A non-profit company in Austin, Texas, has promised Longhorns’ scholarship offensive linemen $50,000 each in the future.

The Wild Wild West!

At time of reporting, LU is offering free Chic Fil A sandwich's to their athletes (not valid on Sundays)
#638722
jmclaughlin wrote: January 14th, 2022, 5:20 pm Changes and restrictions are inevitable because schools are not even trying to stay in the parameters. One restriction I anticipate is a vetting process in how the NIL deal came about and how it will be beneficial to the independent partners (not the school). Tell me the NCAA isn't letting the crazy happen so they can come in and solve the issue. Power always loves more power.

"A NIL deal cannot pay a player with the sole intent for the athlete to attend a school."

I linked an article that cited multiple cases of schools not even trying to hide the offers for anyone who attends.
Here is an excerpt:
It was thought an athlete’s marketability would attract businesses and be compensated, but boosters are throwing out blanket offers in hopes of luring prospects.

Miami businessman Dan Lambert has offered $500 a month to the Hurricanes’ football scholarship players to advertise American Top Team, a chain of mixed martial arts facilities. “They’re giving every scholarship player a certain amount,” Turnage said. “So opponents of that are saying how [can you do] NIL if you don’t know who the players are. You’re literally just paying them to come to school.

Texas A&M has signed a consensus No. 1 ranked 2022 recruiting class in the nation and the best class in school history. Aggie boosters reportedly spent millions to help lure the prospects to ink with A&M.

A non-profit company in Austin, Texas, has promised Longhorns’ scholarship offensive linemen $50,000 each in the future.

The Wild Wild West!

At time of reporting, LU is offering free Chic Fil A sandwich's to their athletes (not valid on Sundays)
I’m not sure the NCAA CAN come in and do anything.
Your example of the mixed martial arts gym is perfect. How can you prove it was “just to come to the school”? A very real case can be made that the $500 paid to a random athlete will be recouped if 2 or 3 of their friends or family join. So that’s difficult to say one way or the other.
How many cars do you think Subaru or Nissan here in town would sell if Malik was driving one?
How can you regulate a person who feels the entire offensive line would be a great marketing campaign for their business? That’s what is going to be difficult to regulate
#638725
I think you are missing the point / intent of the NIL. It is awfully specific in intent to benefit an individual and their likeness. In no way can be substituted as "position of player", or left an open ended offer to be filled in later. The Miami example is clearly not meeting the parameter or is even close to it. If a dealership, strip club, grocery store etc, etc has a standing agreement to pay out X amount to any player yet to enroll, it is a clear violation. It creates a recruiting benefit. The NCAA has grounds to investigate but will most likely settle for some side action. :D
#638728
Oh I get the intent absolutely. But the reality is what I’m dealing with. A player plays a position. If I own a Widget Drilling Company I’m going to want large swarthy young men to be my “models”. Where better to get those types of fellas than say an O or D line at your local university
The point being the NCAA is going to have to spend a lot of money if they want to try to “police” this in any way. That ship had sailed. The moment they try that the Haves will leave and the NCAA will be a big Have Not.
#638733
I spoke to a coach at Nebraska this week who told me, “You just don’t get how transactional everything has become now.”

I left college coaching in 2019 for personal reasons. But it was an easy decision to me. When I enjoyed coaching, it was for the ability to build a career out of having a positive influence in the lives of young people through sport. It was the exact same that had been done for me, so I enjoyed Paying It Forward. I was able to provide for my family while doing something noble in a good way for others.

Inevitably, I’m often asked, “Do you miss coaching.” (It’s funny to me that Coaching is a career that when departed often receives this question. Why does no one ask the former mechanic or tax attorney or college admissions counselor if they miss their former career? But, I digress.) The truth is, I don’t miss coaching. In fact, it was about two years before I could watch my sport again as a fan, and I doubt I’ll ever be rabid about it. I miss the ongoing camaraderie with other coaches. And, I miss the positive influence in lives. The former I lost when I retired from coaching. But the latter left the sport for the most part long beforehand, and that made it a little easier to leave.

Now, with the open portal and NIL, the Nebraska coach was telling me that the Player-Coach relationship has become completely transactional. All that matters is what Coach can do for the Player. And coming from the inside, we weren’t that far away from here before, so NIL and the open portal have just crystallized it.

(Certainly more and more coaches aren’t blames. Many also only care about what the player can do for the coach. Sort of a, if you can beat them, join the Mentality. I couldn’t put my mind there, so I never had much camaraderie with those coaches.)

Young student-athletes don’t know any better, so I can hardly blame them. I believe in freedom and capitalism, so I’m not morally or even lawfully opposed to NIL or the open portal.

But I am disappointed. I’m disappointed for the lost opportunities for Players’ and Coaches’ lives to be transformed by relationships in the joint pursuit of personal and group excellence, as opposed to why they are joined now: the pursuit of the best advertising deal.

I still believe in the power of Sport to change lives. I just believe it’s going to happen a LOT less at the intercollegiate level. Now more than ever, we need great coaches at the high school and youth levels.

Of course kids transfer high schools for athletic reasons, too. And I know some money flows there already. More will surely follow. All of this - ALL of it - is inevitable. But some of the effects are no less sad and disappointing.
#638738
Good post. A college long joke from my days is that You knew you made it when Coach called a personal time out for you and offered to buy you a train or plane ticket home and help you transfer to whatever school you wanted! :D Now a days the shoe is on the other foot.
I absolutely get your jaded look at Coaching and you hit it right on the head. But I think you’ll see a solid cadre of coaches and schools who simply can’t compete in the arms race. Instead they will go “Hybrid Old School” and offer what they can but then try to sell the growth and nurturing aspect. Those schools most likely won’t win Championships but their Administrations should be aware of that.
The big sell is going to be Parents and Hanger Ons. When Little Mikey/Sara can do no wrong and are a driveway all American it’s obviously the Professional who can’t see their talent!
And if you get back to the area I know at least 1 high school program who believes as you about building up kids. The head coach just got an LUWBB shout out They certainly could use a good assistant coach. Theirs is dubious to say the least!
jmclaughlin liked this
#638744
Narcissism is the fruit of choice for our current society. The changing climate of college athletics reflect it. My hope is LU shines differently. Programs like LU’s have an opportunity to be a contrast to the “dirty money” we are seeing thrown around.

“People will come Ray”
If only we could get Terence Mann to be the voice of our conscience.
Last edited by jmclaughlin on January 15th, 2022, 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#638745
jmclaughlin wrote: January 15th, 2022, 10:25 am Narcissism is the fruit of choice for our current society. The changing climate of college athletics reflect it. My hope is LU shines differently. Programs like LU’s have an opportunity to be a contrast to the “dirty money” we are seeing thrown around.

“People will come Ray”
If only we could get Terence Mann to do be the voice of our conscience.
I like the sentiment but I’m not sure I’d call it “dirty money”. It’s playing the game within the parameters allowed.
As for LU let’s not forget they jacked up the “Cost of Attendance” number so players were able to get a pretty nice stipend. More so than a lot of it rivals. Most importantly they were able to afford to do so. Not much difference between that and what’s happening now with the NIL. Just a tad bit more money
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#638754
Purple Haize wrote: January 15th, 2022, 9:28 am Good post. A college long joke from my days is that You knew you made it when Coach called a personal time out for you and offered to buy you a train or plane ticket home and help you transfer to whatever school you wanted! :D Now a days the shoe is on the other foot.
I absolutely get your jaded look at Coaching and you hit it right on the head. But I think you’ll see a solid cadre of coaches and schools who simply can’t compete in the arms race. Instead they will go “Hybrid Old School” and offer what they can but then try to sell the growth and nurturing aspect. Those schools most likely won’t win Championships but their Administrations should be aware of that.
The big sell is going to be Parents and Hanger Ons. When Little Mikey/Sara can do no wrong and are a driveway all American it’s obviously the Professional who can’t see their talent!
And if you get back to the area I know at least 1 high school program who believes as you about building up kids. The head coach just got an LUWBB shout out They certainly could use a good assistant coach. Theirs is dubious to say the least!
Shoot, I got that timeout on me once in high school. I could be a jerk back then.

Admins are trying to climb their own ladders. When AD’s were former coaches, it was fine. They understood what it took to build a program. Now, AD’s are fundraiser and hand-shakers. Which is fine. But often they have no clue what it takes to build an intercollegiate athletic team/program.

Parents have long been the bad tree in recruiting. And the apples don’t fall far from them.
Purple Haize liked this
#638758
Purple Haize wrote: January 15th, 2022, 10:29 am
jmclaughlin wrote: January 15th, 2022, 10:25 am Narcissism is the fruit of choice for our current society. The changing climate of college athletics reflect it. My hope is LU shines differently. Programs like LU’s have an opportunity to be a contrast to the “dirty money” we are seeing thrown around.

“People will come Ray”
If only we could get Terence Mann to do be the voice of our conscience.
I like the sentiment but I’m not sure I’d call it “dirty money”. It’s playing the game within the parameters allowed.
As for LU let’s not forget they jacked up the “Cost of Attendance” number so players were able to get a pretty nice stipend. More so than a lot of it rivals. Most importantly they were able to afford to do so. Not much difference between that and what’s happening now with the NIL. Just a tad bit more money
Some play within parameters allowed, but there is a lot of dirty money changing hands. Plus I believe some players have no intent to transfer, until they are contacted by a recruiter, i.e. street agent. I read of one case where a VMI player was contacted by someone representing a school from Big 10. When Big 10 schools start recruiting from VMI, there is a problem.
If a player is 3rd string, sitting on far end of the bench, I might could see him/her transfering to get playing time. But when a player is #1 on depth chart at his/her position and they transfer, it's a problem.
#638759
I coached may years at the high school level and near the end of my career at the D3 level. The relationships formed during those times have endured and, in many cases, become enriched. There is a purity in dealing with true student athletes. When I compare that to my playing days initially at the D1 level there is a stark contrast. For you old timers, I was recruited my Marv Levy to play at William and Mary when they were amping up their program. He was a drill sergeant and seemed not to be interested in anything but promoting his career. Ironically, the tables have turned or maybe it's fairer to say that the playing field of greed has been equalized. Coaches continue to promote themselves but in order to do so in today's climate, must establish an optimum atmosphere for players to do the same. It makes great theater for self aggrandizement!
JK37 liked this
#638771
ballcoach15 wrote: January 15th, 2022, 6:33 pm Sports at the high school and college level should be about playing ball and trying to win a championship. it should not be about coaches or players promoting themselves. Granted there are coaches who think they're bigger than the sport, and some players also.
High school I kinda agree with you. There’s so much money now in College that ship has sailed at the FBS level
#638772
Let’s not waste a decade complaining and rip the bandaid now. NCAA with a cap on NIL and no transfer rule except when a coach leaves ( rest have to sit a year ). and a 24 team playoff just like FCS. Too 32 or whoever wants go play Semi Pro Ball - move along. Semi Pro can’t recruit NCAA players unless Grad Transfers. Otherwise, we wake up and wonder why no one watches CFB anymore and why dozens shut down their Program. Not trying to be melodramatic, but it will be a mess and fans will walk.
ballcoach15 liked this
#638778
All conferences should be placed on a level playing field, and eliminate the term Power 5 and Group of 5, and any other lumping of schools. All are NCAA schools, treat them as such.

(and why is the Notre Dame Athletic Director on equal footing with conference commissioners)
#638780
ballcoach15 wrote: January 15th, 2022, 8:00 pm All conferences should be placed on a level playing field, and eliminate the term Power 5 and Group of 5, and any other lumping of schools. All are NCAA schools, treat them as such.

(and why is the Notre Dame Athletic Director on equal footing with conference commissioners)
You keep saying that but you never explain that. Obviously the reigning College Football Champions Georgia Bulldogs are on a different level that Georgia Southern. Define what you mean by “level playing field”
#638793
I think the issue is those 5 conferences play a clearly different level of football.
If we stop labeling them as the Power 5 tomorrow it doesn’t change the fact that Liberty, Colorado St, and FAU can’t compete with the top schools from those conferences.
Title has nothing to do with it. It’s skill and level of play.
#638804
ballcoach15 wrote: January 15th, 2022, 9:30 pm Do not separate the SEC, ACC, Big 12, PAC 12 and Little 10 from other conferences.
I don’t know what that means. Separate how? Obviously those institutions put more resources into athletics than say the MAC or CUSA. Obviously playing a B1G schedule in Columbus or an SEC schedule in Tuscaloosa is completely different than one in Akron or Troy. So what you are proposing makes 0 sense.
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