Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#639395
With Ian notoriously playing things close to the vest, there are other ways to find out what is going on in regard to plans for the transition to CUSA. The AD at NM State handled a question on the recent CUSA meeting in Dallas on a podcast that has proven to be very enlightening:

Yeah, it wasn't much. I left from Nacogdoches, Texas to Dallas on Sunday. And we had a dinner with ADs, some of the campus CEOs, there were some sponsors there, and some of the Conference USA leadership. On Monday, we met and a big topic of discussion .. there was a television committee for Conference USA and I was one of the people on it. And we were going to analyze, there was a few groups that Conference USA has considered hiring, just like the WAC did and every other conference does to represent them in the upcoming television negotiations. So we heard multiple proposals. Then everybody kind of got to say their piece on who they though might be the best firm to represent us. OK.

The second discussion was hey we are at nine, where do we want to go from here? Do we want to go to ten or stay at nine? What does everybody think? That vote will be taken by the existing membership of which we are not. But they certainly wanted to hear what we had to say. And pretty early on in a free flowing discussion we said, "Hey, look. It would probably behoove us to get a consultant, a media consultant on board, and then ask them. Hey, this is the question we ar grappling with. Nine or ten? Here are the institutions that could be a tenth full member or football-only member and how do you see that affecting these negotiations." I think that is the smart play. We also said we wanted to hear from Dave Brown. I have talked about Dave Brown a bunch of times. He is our scheduling guru for gridiron and football. And I know with a football landscape is the SEC going to go to night conference games? What do you think will be easier? What do you think will be better for our league? A 9-team football league or a 10-team football league. So we want to hear from those two experts before we take that next step as a conference and really getting into it. But I really think that will take place soon.

And then the other thing we discussed is with the new schools, some of the sports might need to find a new home. For us, mens tennis, womens swimming and diving. Right now we have to have six in the league. Would we merge with another league? Would we join another league? Would another league give us those sports? So similar to like in the Western Athletic Conference (WAC). You know swimming & diving. Well NAU is in our conference. We would just accept them as an affiliate member. In mens soccer, there are a number of affiliates. Incarnate Word and Air Force, etc. What have you, I believe. So we have affiliates and there would some sports. And that was pretty much it before we hopped back on the airplane and went home. But it was good to see everybody face to face. This was the first time that I met the new AD at Florida International. It was the first time I had met the Jacksonville State Athletic Director. So I think it was good to make those connections and see each other in person.
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By LUOrange
Posts
#639397
It's definitely wise to get a professional opinion on expansion as it relates to a TV deal. I don't think it's wise to agree to have multiple fotball games on tuesday through Thursday like the MAC and SBC though.

Matt Brown speculated on CSNBBS that EKU would be invited to CUSA by the end of the year. They're not NDSU or MO State, but a good add IMO. I'm no longer opposed to adding our ASUN mates , it doesn't hurt to add folks that actually want to play you.

I'm guessing that we'll stay in the ASUN for sports that CUSA doesn't have or doesn't add.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#639398
Honestly CUSA should be passed the stage of looking at consultants based on the media negotiation time frame. The Sun Belt has given the three CUSA schools headed their way a March 1st deadline to either be in or out of the Belt for the fall 2022 in order to restructure their ESPN deal. I suspect CUSA is looking to see if they can extract some value out of the predicament.

Until the league understands truly what potential media partners desire then there is no chance of a 10th team. If there is minimal to no additional value perceived by media partners, there is zero need to expand. Matt Brown is speculating that the league has zeroed in on EKU as #10. That could be the case. It could also be that Missouri State looks at what is happening with new NCAA structure and reconsiders. Or the media folks decide that NDSU brings value. The league is clearly not looking to go to 12 as some have hypothesized.
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By tyndal23
Posts
#639403
Sly Fox wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 2:26 pm Honestly CUSA should be passed the stage of looking at consultants based on the media negotiation time frame. The Sun Belt has given the three CUSA schools headed their way a March 1st deadline to either be in or out of the Belt for the fall 2022 in order to restructure their ESPN deal. I suspect CUSA is looking to see if they can extract some value out of the predicament.

Until the league understands truly what potential media partners desire then there is no chance of a 10th team. If there is minimal to no additional value perceived by media partners, there is zero need to expand. Matt Brown is speculating that the league has zeroed in on EKU as #10. That could be the case. It could also be that Missouri State looks at what is happening with new NCAA structure and reconsiders. Or the media folks decide that NDSU brings value. The league is clearly not looking to go to 12 as some have hypothesized.
So round robin with 10 football? 1 less non con? Surely not 2 divisions with only 10 schools correct?
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#639407
If they went to ten for football it would have to be two divisions. Most of our new CUSA brethren need those four non-conference slots to get some guarantee games. You could actually get creative with zipper scheduling and potentially get to five non-conference games.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#639412
If they were added an a football-only addition it would mean one trip to Fargo every four years. Not exactly an issue. But once again, I don't see it happening unless they are bringing significant money to a media deal.
By tyndal23
Posts
#639696
Listened to podcast where Scar was a guest - so let me get this straight. All the hoops fans on here celebrating the CUSA move and why our move from Independent to CUSA enhanced our other sports so much - he stated last time CUSA had a MBB at large bid was 2012 ? Are you kidding me?
By tyndal23
Posts
#639698
thepostman wrote: February 11th, 2022, 8:57 pm When is the last time the ASUN had an at large?

I'll wait...
Laughable. We just traded going to NCAA 3/4 years (75 % of the time - currently 100% ) for one very 4 years ( hopefully ) and will have zero impact on MBB Recruitng. As Scar stated - might better get used to NIT. Awesome. Hey but what do I know about “ how college athletics” really work.
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By Kricket
Registration Days Posts
#639699
It's not all about the at larges but I think it's very feasible that C-USA could get an at large in a good year once we're in.

It's also about seeding and preparing the team for the tournament. It's not only about getting to the big dance, it's about winning at the big dance.

Oh, and there's the fact that winning is super boring in the A-Sun and losses are embarrassing.
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#639700
tyndal23 wrote: February 11th, 2022, 9:04 pm
thepostman wrote: February 11th, 2022, 8:57 pm When is the last time the ASUN had an at large?

I'll wait...
Laughable. We just traded going to NCAA 3/4 years (75 % of the time - currently 100% ) for one very 4 years ( hopefully ) and will have zero impact on MBB Recruitng. As Scar stated - might better get used to NIT. Awesome. Hey but what do I know about “ how college athletics” really work.
You brought up the at large thing. Now you're doing what you always do and not answering questions asked of you.

I'm still waiting. When is the last time the ASUN had an at large?
By BuryYourDuke
Registration Days Posts
#639701
I’ll bite. His point is, our odds of winning the ASun almost every year, becoming a household name every March, and going on an occasional sweet 16 run, are higher than having a good year and getting an at large in CUSA on occasion.

And I don’t think he’s wrong.
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By Ill flame
Posts
#639703
C-USA has won a first round game in 5 of the last 6 tournaments. That liberty win a few years ago has been the only asun tourney win outside of the FGCU win against another #16 seed in that time period. I enjoy playing in the tournament every year but the odds of us getting an upset in the first round isn't good right now and I think we are near our ceiling in the asun. In c-usa the expectation would be to make it to the second round when we do make the tournament.

There's no doubt in my mind that we will get better recruits playing against teams like nmsu and Louisiana tech on a regular basis compared to teams like Bellarmine and stetson. I also expect fan interest to be a lot higher, the overall quality of basketball is so much higher in c-usa.
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By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#639705
It's pretty much getting in and winning at this stage. Just being there isn't gonna cut it. So, if the trade-off ends up being fewer appearances, but more wins, then that's a deal we can live with.
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By Kricket
Registration Days Posts
#639711
I'm not even so sure that staying in the A-Sun would mean more long term tournament appearances. I don't think there is a model of conference tournament dominance that has been sustained long term at such a low level conference. We might be more of an anomaly the last 3 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Di ... _by_school

I mean, look at that list of most tournament appearances and I can't find one school that has executed this super crappy conference but tournament appearances practically every year model unless you can point me to it.

Even Gonzaga and Butler have had significantly better conferences than the A-Sun.

So is the A-Sun really a better path to tournament births?
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By tyndal23
Posts
#639719
thepostman wrote: February 11th, 2022, 10:26 pm
tyndal23 wrote: February 11th, 2022, 9:04 pm
thepostman wrote: February 11th, 2022, 8:57 pm When is the last time the ASUN had an at large?

I'll wait...
Laughable. We just traded going to NCAA 3/4 years (75 % of the time - currently 100% ) for one very 4 years ( hopefully ) and will have zero impact on MBB Recruitng. As Scar stated - might better get used to NIT. Awesome. Hey but what do I know about “ how college athletics” really work.
You brought up the at large thing. Now you're doing what you always do and not answering questions asked of you.

I'm still waiting. When is the last time the ASUN had an at large?
I will assume never. So the argument to me when I questioned the knee jerk panic move of leaving Independence and doing complete opposite of what Ian had been saying, was - “ think of all the other sports, MBB just upgraded dramatically.” So I assumed that meant we joined a conference that regularly had multi bid MBB, come to find out it is every 10 years...if you think not going to the NCAA tournament is better for LU as a whole, then I would probably have a reasonable argument that it isn’t....
By tyndal23
Posts
#639720
Ill flame wrote: February 12th, 2022, 1:26 am C-USA has won a first round game in 5 of the last 6 tournaments. That liberty win a few years ago has been the only asun tourney win outside of the FGCU win against another #16 seed in that time period. I enjoy playing in the tournament every year but the odds of us getting an upset in the first round isn't good right now and I think we are near our ceiling in the asun. In c-usa the expectation would be to make it to the second round when we do make the tournament.

There's no doubt in my mind that we will get better recruits playing against teams like nmsu and Louisiana tech on a regular basis compared to teams like Bellarmine and stetson. I also expect fan interest to be a lot higher, the overall quality of basketball is so much higher in c-usa.
OK. I guess show me the recruiting rankings, then verify McKay has been losing recruits because we aren’t in CUSA. 3-4 Non P5 Conferences you could make that argument, that a recruit would choose higher level, but not a single 1 bid league is currently a recruiting hurdle for McKay. Same for Softball and Baseball.
By tyndal23
Posts
#639721
Ill flame wrote: February 12th, 2022, 1:26 am C-USA has won a first round game in 5 of the last 6 tournaments. That liberty win a few years ago has been the only asun tourney win outside of the FGCU win against another #16 seed in that time period. I enjoy playing in the tournament every year but the odds of us getting an upset in the first round isn't good right now and I think we are near our ceiling in the asun. In c-usa the expectation would be to make it to the second round when we do make the tournament.

There's no doubt in my mind that we will get better recruits playing against teams like nmsu and Louisiana tech on a regular basis compared to teams like Bellarmine and stetson. I also expect fan interest to be a lot higher, the overall quality of basketball is so much higher in c-usa.
Which CUSA teams are you referring to that will still be in CUSA. I count 1 - MTSU in 2017. Last bid last win.
By tyndal23
Posts
#639722
tyndal23 wrote: February 12th, 2022, 1:43 pm
Ill flame wrote: February 12th, 2022, 1:26 am C-USA has won a first round game in 5 of the last 6 tournaments. That liberty win a few years ago has been the only asun tourney win outside of the FGCU win against another #16 seed in that time period. I enjoy playing in the tournament every year but the odds of us getting an upset in the first round isn't good right now and I think we are near our ceiling in the asun. In c-usa the expectation would be to make it to the second round when we do make the tournament.

There's no doubt in my mind that we will get better recruits playing against teams like nmsu and Louisiana tech on a regular basis compared to teams like Bellarmine and stetson. I also expect fan interest to be a lot higher, the overall quality of basketball is so much higher in c-usa.
Which CUSA teams are you referring to that will still be in CUSA. I count 1 - MTSU in 2017. Last bid last win.
MTSU 2016 - 15 seed - upset #2 MSU - got so much respect they were a 12 seed the next year. Remind me what seed LU was in their 2019 appearance from the lowly ASUN ?
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