[Dalegarz1]

I just want to humbly share a perspective from experience concerning taking a new coaching position. It may be an oversimplification, but there are 2 kinds of head coaches. There are those who love to step in a situation that is messy and down trodden and turn the program around. I tried that 4 times in my career (at the high school and DIII level). As soon as the program was turned around, I looked to leave (sounds like Larry Brown)and attempt to do the same somewhere else. There was no desire to maintain the level at the same institution. Then there is the coach who loves to keep a program at a level of excellence year after year. That is not in my DNA. The question is; Which category does Hugh Freeze fall into? There still is a lot of chatter in the Volunteer State about hiring him. Do you think he's enticed by the challenge of building a program that is in shambles right now?

[alabama24]

There are 2 kinds of head coaches. There are those who love to step in a situation that is messy and down trodden and turn the program around... Then there is the coach who loves to keep a program at a level of excellence year after year.

Great post and interesting to learn more about you.

Your theory is interesting... The same is true in the Church world. I do agree that this is oversimplified. There are some who are gifted more towards one or the other... I would say that most are geared towards one or the other. Many would have put Nick Saban in your camp... but that hasn’t been born out. He has shown he is both.

[Rubicon]

I just want to humbly share a perspective from experience concerning taking a new coaching position. It may be an oversimplification, but there are 2 kinds of head coaches. There are those who love to step in a situation that is messy and down trodden and turn the program around. I tried that 4 times in my career (at the high school and DIII level). As soon as the program was turned around, I looked to leave (sounds like Larry Brown)and attempt to do the same somewhere else. There was no desire to maintain the level at the same institution. Then there is the coach who loves to keep a program at a level of excellence year after year. That is not in my DNA. The question is; Which category does Hugh Freeze fall into? There still is a lot of chatter in the Volunteer State about hiring him. Do you think he's enticed by the challenge of building a program that is in shambles right now?

Another one who seemed to only want to build, not maintain was Dennis Franchione. He was a great coach at New Mexico, TCU, and Texas A&M, but he always looked for another rebuild after getting his teams up from where they were. I think there is a lot to your 2 types of coaches theory. There is something exciting and challenging about the rebuild project, but then the fun is gone (for that type of coach). Maintaining programs requires other things, and even the best get hit with the ebb and flow and vicissitudes of fortune (even top programs experience decline, whether micro or macro).

An "added" incentive to the challenge at Liberty is the dynamic of religious conservatism. This adds a degree of difficulty in recruiting and keeping players, and in how your program will be treated and dealt with by other programs and conferences (in spades with success. This will be really interesting to watch, given Liberty's trajectory the last couple of years). For the type 1 coach, there is an added challenge (and added excitement) that means that a type 1 coach might not feel he's reached the "footloose, hit the road" stage, where he would have at other programs.

The joker in the deck with both (or any) types of coaches is: what are Freeze's personal religious convictions, and how does he feel deep down about the opportunity Liberty gave him? Do his religious beliefs align strongly with Liberty, or is he not really that religious? How grateful is he (to the extent that he wants to do something really special in return) about Liberty giving him a chance when he was at rock bottom and persona non grata?

I would think that someone who fiercely wanted Liberty to succeed, excel, and prosper (including Liberty becoming a tool and means of propagating and spreading exposure for the gospel) would be much more motivated not to leave until that happened, than someone who didn't really feel that way about it.

ETA: I had forgotten that Franchione turned Alabama around, but turned down a ten year contract when he went to A&M. That's really interesting in light of the success Saban has had at Alabama since then. Franchione was the type who delighted in the rebuild project.

[PAmedic]

vicissitudes of fortune

this is SOLID WORK. And a first for flame fans/ASOR

I bet Cider felt something move a lil

[tyndal23]

I hear you, I really do.

Two goals:
1. P5
2. Top G5

Are the two mutually exclusive? Can #2 not be the stepping stone to #1?

2. Is already attained ( temporarily) . It fluctuates every 2-3 years because head coaches get taken and even the “ Programs “ who stay relatively consistent never break through to P5 regardless of stadium size,tv geography and conference footprint.. Those “Programs” are all trying to figure out how to claw out and are limtied to 1-2 P5 games a year. We don’t compare to the top 5 G5 Programs in most aspects ( App St aside - the one we most compare with ) Cinci, Memphis, San Diego State, Boise, all have superior natural tie in’s to P5. App St. and Coastal and upcoming UAB, Charlotte, have similar geography. ( without the political baggage of Presidents votes ). UCF is in another level due to recruiting, school and stadium size - I don’t count them ( conferences are idiots for not inviting them).

My answer is yes, the two are mutually exclusive - the only way to leapfrog those schools for a P5 invite is to do what they can’t - be a legit P5 Indie. And it won’t be easy and can’t take baby steps. It will take a short to medium term commitment with $. IF we never get a P5 invite, we still are way ahead of any G5 school in terms of “big boy” football with a national brand, exclusive ( non shared) ESPN home game tv rights and probably at minimum at least 3 conferences counting us as a P5 and an informal scheduling alliance with the NC and VA schools the years they don’t play ND.

[JK37]

Ok, reaching legit P5 status is the reward. In your plan, what is the risk?

[Risewithus]

Mullen to interview with jets supposedly. Didn't see that one coming. Guy blames everyone else for everything.

[Ill flame]

2. Is already attained ( temporarily) . It fluctuates every 2-3 years because head coaches get taken and even the “ Programs “ who stay relatively consistent never break through to P5 regardless of stadium size,tv geography and conference footprint.. Those “Programs” are all trying to figure out how to claw out and are limtied to 1-2 P5 games a year. We don’t compare to the top 5 G5 Programs in most aspects ( App St aside - the one we most compare with ) Cinci, Memphis, San Diego State, Boise, all have superior natural tie in’s to P5. App St. and Coastal and upcoming UAB, Charlotte, have similar geography. ( without the political baggage of Presidents votes ). UCF is in another level due to recruiting, school and stadium size - I don’t count them ( conferences are idiots for not inviting them).

My answer is yes, the two are mutually exclusive - the only way to leapfrog those schools for a P5 invite is to do what they can’t - be a legit P5 Indie. And it won’t be easy and can’t take baby steps. It will take a short to medium term commitment with $. IF we never get a P5 invite, we still are way ahead of any G5 school in terms of “big boy” football with a national brand, exclusive ( non shared) ESPN home game tv rights and probably at minimum at least 3 conferences counting us as a P5 and an informal scheduling alliance with the NC and VA schools the years they don’t play ND.

You keep saying top G5 programs never get rewarded like utah, tcu and louisville weren't rewarded for being the top G5 equivalent programs less than a decade ago. Memphis, UCF and cincinnati have since moved to the front of the line and will likely be rewarded in the next round of realignment. We had one good season, that's not enough to be considered among the top programs.

No matter what route we take it's gonna take years before we are considered up there with those other schools. Even if Hugh freeze is drastically speeding up the process

[cruzan_flame13]

Jeff Fisher is interested in the Tennessee job if they move on from Pruitt. On a side note, Hendon Hooker is transferring to Tennessee. That would be an interesting combo in my opinion. Does Fisher still have any juice left is the question.

[Ill flame]

Jeff Fisher is interested in the Tennessee job if they move on from Pruitt. On a side note, Hendon Hooker is transferring to Tennessee. That would be an interesting combo in my opinion. Does Fisher still have any juice left is the question.

That would be a really interesting hire for them. Something tells me that would turn into another lovie Smith situation though. It would be smarter to take the guy that's already proved he can win in the SEC.

[tyndal23]

2. Is already attained ( temporarily) . It fluctuates every 2-3 years because head coaches get taken and even the “ Programs “ who stay relatively consistent never break through to P5 regardless of stadium size,tv geography and conference footprint.. Those “Programs” are all trying to figure out how to claw out and are limtied to 1-2 P5 games a year. We don’t compare to the top 5 G5 Programs in most aspects ( App St aside - the one we most compare with ) Cinci, Memphis, San Diego State, Boise, all have superior natural tie in’s to P5. App St. and Coastal and upcoming UAB, Charlotte, have similar geography. ( without the political baggage of Presidents votes ). UCF is in another level due to recruiting, school and stadium size - I don’t count them ( conferences are idiots for not inviting them).

My answer is yes, the two are mutually exclusive - the only way to leapfrog those schools for a P5 invite is to do what they can’t - be a legit P5 Indie. And it won’t be easy and can’t take baby steps. It will take a short to medium term commitment with $. IF we never get a P5 invite, we still are way ahead of any G5 school in terms of “big boy” football with a national brand, exclusive ( non shared) ESPN home game tv rights and probably at minimum at least 3 conferences counting us as a P5 and an informal scheduling alliance with the NC and VA schools the years they don’t play ND.

You keep saying top G5 programs never get rewarded like utah, tcu and louisville weren't rewarded for being the top G5 equivalent programs less than a decade ago. Memphis, UCF and cincinnati have since moved to the front of the line and will likely be rewarded in the next round of realignment. We had one good season, that's not enough to be considered among the top programs.

No matter what route we take it's gonna take years before we are considered up there with those other schools. Even if Hugh freeze is drastically speeding up the process

Right. Now compare our school with any of the above and tell me how we can get to front of the line in G5 - if Presidents didn’t have to vote to let us in, I would be all for dominating G5 until our time came. We aren’t getting voted in by any P5 Conferences - eliminate that from your thinking, accept reality and focus on who we are and how we can bypass the G5 purgatory or in our case endless purgatory.

[ballcoach15]

As I have posted before, if Louisville can get into ACC, anything is possible.

[cruzan_flame13]

Again, our mission doesn't fit the missions for most of the schools in the P5 conferences. I wouldn't waste my time thinking that the presidents of these schools will invite us and even the AAC for that matter as full members. We are not a legitimate school remember?

[tyndal23]

Your post is based on academics, not politics. Yes they waived the snooty academia requirements but certainly not Christian,Comservative. As for TCU - part of a conference with 7 national titles - SWC was considered one of the top conferences before Texas left for Big 12. - Big 12 bringing TCU and Baylor in to the fold is a far cry from a current P5 bringing in LU. As for Utah
, I shared a detailed article 2 years ago on the miracle it took for them to get invited to PAC 12 and the financial whacking they took for the privilege. They are a financially strapped state school still waiting on the P5 tv $ payout which is another complete mess with PAC 12.

[tyndal23]

Again, our mission doesn't fit the missions for most of the schools in the P5 conferences. I wouldn't waste my time thinking that the presidents of these schools will invite us and even the AAC for that matter as full members. We are not a legitimate school remember?

I concur, our invite - if ever, will be from a position of strength and $ like BYU or ND not as a G5 waiting for the call up to the majors...regardless if the invite never comes we can control what we can control and be a major college program regardless of official P5 Comferemce status. Stop wasting years trying to be a G5 elite - that plan works for UCF ( maybe ) not LU.

[ballah09]

Reason why we weren't invited is because of politics aka Jr and our online. Our online is more of a business with subpar professors. That is a big turnoff for most of the school presidents. It was nothing to do with our mission. If Liberty stays out of politics and actually invest in our online programs to make it more rigorous like ASU and PSU world campus then we'll get an invite somewhere. We also have to kick the Falkirk center to the curve, they're an embarrassment to academics and espcially our mission.

[tyndal23]

We weren't invited because of politics aka Jr and our online. Our online is more of a business with subpar professors. That is a big turnoff for most of the school presidents. It was nothing to do with our mission. If Liberty stays out of politics and actually invest in our online programs to make it more rigors like ASU and PSU world campus then we'll get an invite somewhere. We also have to kick the Falkirk center to the curve, they're an embarrassment to academics and espcially our mission.

Yes, when we tenure our faculty and sell out from all things conservative and Christian we might be invited and most of us on this board will no longer be fans...

[rogers3]

We weren't invited because of politics aka Jr and our online. Our online is more of a business with subpar professors. That is a big turnoff for most of the school presidents. It was nothing to do with our mission. If Liberty stays out of politics and actually invest in our online programs to make it more rigors like ASU and PSU world campus then we'll get an invite somewhere. We also have to kick the Falkirk center to the curve, they're an embarrassment to academics and espcially our mission.

Yes, when we tenure our faculty and sell out from all things conservative and Christian we might be invited and most of us on this board will no longer be fans...

It sounds as if you are saying that these two things go hand in hand, but that would be ignorant. Tenure might be going the way of the dinosaur soon, but long term contacts would certainly do a lot to support the great faculty already here and bring in strong candidates to add to the mix. I have always felt that as an institution, Liberty could pursue top faculty top students in top athletes while maintaining solid Christian values. We're starting to see a little bit of this in the athletics program and we already have some great faculty. More importantly than seeking p5 status is the fact that we need to move our school into a more competitive position academically.

[ballah09]

Sorry but staying out of politics doesn’t mean the school is going liberal. Idk why people think that. Evangelism bends conservative so the theology won’t change. If you want a school that’s all political then Hillsdale might be right for you.

[flameshaw]

ALL universities are heavily involved in politics. The difference is- that so far- we have not joined the "one opinion", socialist, ultra-liberal, political stance. Our whole country is heading toward the "one opinion" model and doing away with free speech at amazing speed.
Like the US, we were founded on christian, conservative, biblical principles. Unfortunately, we are forgetting our heritage and will soon be unrecognizable as a Christian University.
I have already divorced myself from the current vision and mission of the University. I am trying to hang on to the athletic heritage and performance as long as I can.
Just realized this is the HF thread. Maybe we need to move this discussion to the two garbage political threads that we have going on elsewhere. Thank God, I have been able to stay off of those, so far.

[stokesjokes]

One of the unfortunate results of the rise of the Christian Right is the equation of conservative theology with conservative politics. There’s no necessary connection, and, before the 70s/80s, nobody assumed they were connected. You can be both, but you don’t have to be, and it’s not inconsistent with conservative theology to be politically liberal.

As long as Liberty is theologically conservative, they will be fine. There’s no indication they aren’t.

[jbock13]

and it’s not inconsistent with conservative theology to be politically liberal.

Nope nope nope. There’s nothing about conservative theology that supports the killing of unborn children. If you’re speaking about welfare, taxation rates and economic policies, then sure.

[PAmedic]

Getting WAAAAAYYYY off topic. Can we not pollute the entire board with political BS?

Sports is supposed to be an escape from this crap. How bout we keep things separate?

[stokesjokes]

Sorry

But, yes, not talking abortion

[thepostman]

Getting WAAAAAYYYY off topic. Can we not pollute the entire board with political BS?

Sports is supposed to be an escape from this crap. How bout we keep things separate?

Agreed. This thread has gone way off course. Keep it focused on Hugh Freeze. A lot of these topics are worth discussing. Just not here. We have plenty of other sub-forums perfect for topics like this. From here on out anything not HF related will simply get deleted.