[tyndal23]

We aren’t ready to be P5 level - but we would be in 2026 the first year we can do it based on released schedules.

[Ill flame]

Here are the top G5 schools in average attendance over the last 5 years.

BYU 56,597
East carolina 40,361
Memphis 36,295
UCF 34,814
San Diego st 33,909
USF 32,945
Boise St 32,916
Houston 32,733
Navy 32,565
Army 32,104

This is the level of attendance we would have to be at to get into the conversation for p5 status. We might be able to throw around money for coaches and facilities but recruits want to play in front of big crowds. I think our attendance will continue to improve but we have a long way to go

[TH Spangler]

Here are the top G5 schools in average attendance over the last 5 years.

BYU 56,597
East carolina 40,361
Memphis 36,295
UCF 34,814
San Diego st 33,909
USF 32,945
Boise St 32,916
Houston 32,733
Navy 32,565
Army 32,104

This is the level of attendance we would have to be at to get into the conversation for p5 status. We might be able to throw around money for coaches and facilities but recruits want to play in front of big crowds. I think our attendance will continue to improve but we have a long way to go

ECU 40k at kickoff, 25k in the second quarter, 10k second half kick

That JMU spin sounds like they want to play ODU on rivalry week. I sure hope we don't end up in a mid Atlantic football conf playing Coastal on rivalry week. I hope football stays indy, other sports in a conf like that fine.

[ballcoach15]

I hope we're not associated with JMU in anyway.

[LUOrange]

It doesn't seem like we are traveling well either considering our game @ virginia was their lowest attended game of the season by far.

I blame that on BALLCOACH. He refuses to give UVa any money for an away ticket unless it's softball, and he doesn't even like to eat in Charlottesville.

Not even the Wood Grill Buffet!?

[ballah09]

I hope we're not associated with JMU in anyway.

ironic considering nobody wants to be associated with us.

[tyndal23]

Here are the top G5 schools in average attendance over the last 5 years.

BYU 56,597
East carolina 40,361
Memphis 36,295
UCF 34,814
San Diego st 33,909
USF 32,945
Boise St 32,916
Houston 32,733
Navy 32,565
Army 32,104

This is the level of attendance we would have to be at to get into the conversation for p5 status. We might be able to throw around money for coaches and facilities but recruits want to play in front of big crowds. I think our attendance will continue to improve but we have a long way to go

BYU isn’t G5.
When you play 5 road teams who are P5 - your players are playing in front of large crowds.
Attendance has very little to do with LU scheduling as a P5 - ACC teams are already coming to our 25k stadium. If we did an ACC schedule partnership alternating the teams ND doesn’t play - I could see ACC requiring 35k.

[ballcoach15]

Hate to say it, but we have attendance problems in every sport. Too many fans within 35 mile radius of Lynchburg had rather stay home and watch game on TV.

[Ill flame]

Here are the top G5 schools in average attendance over the last 5 years.

BYU 56,597
East carolina 40,361
Memphis 36,295
UCF 34,814
San Diego st 33,909
USF 32,945
Boise St 32,916
Houston 32,733
Navy 32,565
Army 32,104

This is the level of attendance we would have to be at to get into the conversation for p5 status. We might be able to throw around money for coaches and facilities but recruits want to play in front of big crowds. I think our attendance will continue to improve but we have a long way to go

BYU isn’t G5.
When you play 5 road teams who are P5 - your players are playing in front of large crowds.
Attendance has very little to do with LU scheduling as a P5 - ACC teams are already coming to our 25k stadium. If we did an ACC schedule partnership alternating the teams ND doesn’t play - I could see ACC requiring 35k.

BYU is debatable either way but I think it's important to put them on there for context.

ACC coaches HATE the current arrangement with Notre dame. The only reason the acc agreed to it was because of all of the money the ACC is making on the deal. All ND home games are on national TV and their fans travel very well for road games which equals $$$$ even if ND beats them. Not to mention the huge national fanbase that nd brings to any tv network. In the end the ND deal was all about money and liberty doesn't move the needle at all for any p5 school. Until our fanbase gets near a BYU/ND level we will never get favorable scheduling like that.

[The Big Pineapple]

I graduated from The University of Southern Mississippi who has been a consistent winner in football. They only improved attendance after hiring a consulting team for attendance. Other than in state schools, the 1st sellout of the stadium was against Northern Illinois who was not ranked and the fanbase had no interest in. The experts really knew what they were doing.

[Cider Jim]

I graduated from The University of Southern Mississippi ...They only improved attendance after hiring a consulting team for attendance..the 1st sellout of the stadium was against Northern Illinois...The experts really knew what they were doing.

What did they DO??? Was is a certain "marketing strategy" that they used? This Ole Miss alum would like to know!

[Sly Fox]

This consultant looks forward to being able to consult again on a regular basis at some point.

Not seeing much smoke in regard to CUSA/Sun Belt reshuffling or organization of new eastern league. Both could be happning but there doesn't eem to be urgency as some media reports last week would have suggested.

[LUOrange]

This consultant looks forward to being able to consult again on a regular basis at some point.

Not seeing much smoke in regard to CUSA/Sun Belt reshuffling or organization of new eastern league. Both could be happening but there doesn't seem to be urgency as some media reports last week would have suggested.

Our knowledge of this virus changes everyday, and most states are beginning to open back up. So there's definitely llight at the end of the tunnel, so the wait and see and not overreact is the best approach. And for those schools it's hard to openly preliminary plan on realignment at the risk of offending other schools.

[The Big Pineapple]

If I knew how the marketing worked, I'd be making a lot of money. All I know is it worked.

[aj7]

Been a lurker for a while but realignment got me. I think Liberty's best path is to become an annual 9+ win team as an independent. This will take time to do which in turn gives the fan base more time to mature. Right now fans don't have much tradition to hang their hats on. Over time I think this could lead to an AAC invite.

Additionally, I'd bet that a majority of alumni are around 5-10 years out of college due to the rapid expansion of the university. As this age group grows older their support of the program will rise.

[thepostman]

@aj7 welcome to the board! Always great to have different perspectives.

[tyndal23]

Been a lurker for a while but realignment got me. I think Liberty's best path is to become an annual 9+ win team as an independent. This will take time to do which in turn gives the fan base more time to mature. Right now fans don't have much tradition to hang their hats on. Over time I think this could lead to an AAC invite.

Additionally, I'd bet that a majority of alumni are around 5-10 years out of college due to the rapid expansion of the university. As this age group grows older their support of the program will rise.

Reasonable thought shared by many. Two points - 1. - don’t schedule 4 P5 games if you want to win 9 games. 2. - it would have to be all sports invite - otherwise App St. already there and will get the invite before us - the problem with that is AAC is 90 % focused on football to be able to justify their self proclaimed P6. If we go to 8 or 16 team playoff ( lot of AD’s suddenly coming out for 16 suddenly ) the odds of AAC winning 2 games in a playoff is pretty slim. Even if all conference champs got a playoff birth - 5 P5 and 5 G5 - the disparity between the two levels is still dramatic.

[Ill flame]

Been a lurker for a while but realignment got me. I think Liberty's best path is to become an annual 9+ win team as an independent. This will take time to do which in turn gives the fan base more time to mature. Right now fans don't have much tradition to hang their hats on. Over time I think this could lead to an AAC invite.

This comment prompted me to look up the history of the program a little bit... We are the youngest fbs or FCS school (founded in 1971). In basketball only Florida gulf coast was founded before liberty.

Before last season we had a 12 year streak of winning seasons. Before that we never had more than 3 in a row. We've also only finished a season ranked 4 times in the programs 40 something year history.

On the basketball side we have had arguably less success. Our longest streak of winning seasons was 6 back in the 80's. Counting this year we have only had 5 NCAA appearances and one of them was during a losing season.

Liberty students have rarely had much reason to get excited about their schools teams throughout it history which negatively affects how involved alumni get. It can't be overstated how important consistently winning 8+ games a year and getting butts in seats could do for the University long term.

[tyndal23]

Been a lurker for a while but realignment got me. I think Liberty's best path is to become an annual 9+ win team as an independent. This will take time to do which in turn gives the fan base more time to mature. Right now fans don't have much tradition to hang their hats on. Over time I think this could lead to an AAC invite.

This comment prompted me to look up the history of the program a little bit... We are the youngest fbs or FCS school (founded in 1971). In basketball only Florida gulf coast was founded before liberty.

Before last season we had a 12 year streak of winning seasons. Before that we never had more than 3 in a row. We've also only finished a season ranked 4 times in the programs 40 something year history.

On the basketball side we have had arguably less success. Our longest streak of winning seasons was 6 back in the 80's. Counting this year we have only had 5 NCAA appearances and one of them was during a losing season.

Liberty students have rarely had much reason to get excited about their schools teams throughout it history which negatively affects how involved alumni get. It can't be overstated how important consistently winning 8+ games a year and getting butts in seats could do for the University long term.

Football - we had a top 10 FCS average attendance and closer top 5 towards with 6 wins of 11 games or more for those 12 years - equal to 7 wins in a 12 game FBS season. G5 schedules aren’t going to cure the out of town attendance - students have been faithful for over a decade. Of all the factors of G5 vs P5 I harp about - home attendance is the last priority for LU. TV contracts a majority P5 schedule and away P5 game $ way offset a Lynchburg home crowd. I would even limit our home schedule to 5 games for the first decade of building a P5 level program. Both weekends either side of Thanksgiving should be on the road. Again, if the goal is to be the ND ,BYU for evangelicals - then build it. If it is to be the Boise State / App Stste of G5 football - then by all means - schedule and build accordingly - just don’t confuse the two.

[Ill flame]

Football - we had a top 10 FCS average attendance and closer top 5 towards with 6 wins of 11 games or more for those 12 years - equal to 7 wins in a 12 game FBS season. G5 schedules aren’t going to cure the out of town attendance - students have been faithful for over a decade. Of all the factors of G5 vs P5 I harp about - home attendance is the last priority for LU. TV contracts a majority P5 schedule and away P5 game $ way offset a Lynchburg home crowd. I would even limit our home schedule to 5 games for the first decade of building a P5 level program. Both weekends either side of Thanksgiving should be on the road. Again, if the goal is to be the ND ,BYU for evangelicals - then build it. If it is to be the Boise State / App Stste of G5 football - then by all means - schedule and build accordingly - just don’t confuse the two.

I think your misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. BYU has been a pretty dominate program since the 70's and by that point their program had already been around longer than liberty has. Notre Dame was winning championships when BYU was just starting their program. Both schools have incredible histories, traditions, rivalries, fanbases that have developed over several decades of dominant football. Liberty has had consistent success since 2006. It's a great start but it needs to continue long term for us to get where we want the program/school to go.

I just want to see liberty be successful and grow their brand. Now that we are fbs all we have to do is win the games on the schedule.
Nothing is keeping us from being a Boise St or app St now and developing into a BYU later. It's not an either/or decision. I would love to see liberty get on a Boise St level for the foreseeable future. That outcome would give us options.

[Purple Haize]

Football - we had a top 10 FCS average attendance and closer top 5 towards with 6 wins of 11 games or more for those 12 years - equal to 7 wins in a 12 game FBS season. G5 schedules aren’t going to cure the out of town attendance - students have been faithful for over a decade. Of all the factors of G5 vs P5 I harp about - home attendance is the last priority for LU. TV contracts a majority P5 schedule and away P5 game $ way offset a Lynchburg home crowd. I would even limit our home schedule to 5 games for the first decade of building a P5 level program. Both weekends either side of Thanksgiving should be on the road. Again, if the goal is to be the ND ,BYU for evangelicals - then build it. If it is to be the Boise State / App Stste of G5 football - then by all means - schedule and build accordingly - just don’t confuse the two.

I think your misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. BYU has been a pretty dominate program since the 70's and by that point their program had already been around longer than liberty has. Notre Dame was winning championships when BYU was just starting their program. Both schools have incredible histories, traditions, rivalries, fanbases that have developed over several decades of dominant football. Liberty has had consistent success since 2006. It's a great start but it needs to continue long term for us to get where we want the program/school to go.

I just want to see liberty be successful and grow their brand. Now that we are fbs all we have to do is win the games on the schedule.
Nothing is keeping us from being a Boise St or app St now and developing into a BYU later. It's not an either/or decision. I would love to see liberty get on a Boise St level for the foreseeable future. That outcome would give us options.

[aj7]

I think this is a key aspect of why attendance isn't higher. For the first 40 years of school history there was very little success on the field and almost no visibility for the program nationally. Because of this most students chose LU for reasons completely separate from athletics. I graduated in 2015 and can't recall seeing social media posts from any classmates attending a game since then.

While it feels like we have been rising the last 5-10 years, the alumni support is always going to lag behind a bit. When students choose to attend LU athletics need to be a part of that decision, and I think this is just now beginning.

[BlueBlood]

I think there is truth to the above comments.

The athletics following will continue to grow.

I can tell you that LU having D1 basketball and FBS football was definitely taken into consideration when my daughters chose LU. (freshman this year, freshman next year)

[TH Spangler]

aj7 I think you're spot on. My older nephew could have careless if the school even had sports teams. 10 years later and after me dragging the family to 100s of games his little brother is fired up about going to games next season. His freshman year.

[tyndal23]

Football - we had a top 10 FCS average attendance and closer top 5 towards with 6 wins of 11 games or more for those 12 years - equal to 7 wins in a 12 game FBS season. G5 schedules aren’t going to cure the out of town attendance - students have been faithful for over a decade. Of all the factors of G5 vs P5 I harp about - home attendance is the last priority for LU. TV contracts a majority P5 schedule and away P5 game $ way offset a Lynchburg home crowd. I would even limit our home schedule to 5 games for the first decade of building a P5 level program. Both weekends either side of Thanksgiving should be on the road. Again, if the goal is to be the ND ,BYU for evangelicals - then build it. If it is to be the Boise State / App Stste of G5 football - then by all means - schedule and build accordingly - just don’t confuse the two.

I think your misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. BYU has been a pretty dominate program since the 70's and by that point their program had already been around longer than liberty has. Notre Dame was winning championships when BYU was just starting their program. Both schools have incredible histories, traditions, rivalries, fanbases that have developed over several decades of dominant football. Liberty has had consistent success since 2006. It's a great start but it needs to continue long term for us to get where we want the program/school to go.

I just want to see liberty be successful and grow their brand. Now that we are fbs all we have to do is win the games on the schedule.
Nothing is keeping us from being a Boise St or app St now and developing into a BYU later. It's not an either/or decision. I would love to see liberty get on a Boise St level for the foreseeable future. That outcome would give us options.

We all want to see Liberty be successful. And I think the next 6 years will be over all successful even though most years we are playing above our weight 4 games a year. We will have some major upsets. But just track it out all out to x. 10-20 years of success at G5 doesn’t get you in to a P5 -but even if that happened we would still have to retool and take years beefing up our classes to compete full P5 schedules. we all know regardless of on field success - LU isn’t getting invited due to who we are. We are an Independent - so map that out scheduling like a G5 - say we get to UCF level in win column ( not attendance ) - then what? OK maybe AAC invites us because they probably already lost UCF and Cincinnati to a major conference(s) - we will still be G5 and wanting to be P5. Now track out P5 Independent approach from 2026 on. LU isn’t constrained by $ or regionality or a need to run the program as a $ maker -we can recruit nationally, can afford to schedule P5 home games and have the flexibility as an Indie to play whomever we want 7- 8 games a year and the other Indies fill in the other games. Scheduling will actually be easier for us once we are playing P5 teams on tv all of Sept and 2 more later in the year plus BYU, Army and occasionally ND maybe. Losing a game to a team like schedules like that vs a G5 team is entirely different perception. Does that make us a P5 equivalent ? No - ( as Purple likes to remind me ) - but it most certainly doesn’t make us a G5 anything and most definitely makes us attractive to P5 level recruits nationally who love everything else about our school or simply like whatever coach we have at the time.

As for App St - average fan knows them from their win over MI - and can’t even tell you what conference they play in now. They are good enough now P5 teams are going to shy away scheduling them - nothing worse than losing at home to G5 teams ( except losing to FCS ). All G5 schools are forced to try and build their brand and “ hope” someday to be invited to the club provided they also pass the academic and political smell test by a group of Presidents. All the while getting their coaches poached every other year by P5 schools. Those of you who say we must just start winning and building our brand and it will all work out - I just want to know how, how long and based on what ?