[Liberty22]

This leads to an interesting discussion. What determines a programs validity?

[thepostman]

Yeah, that is a great question @Liberty22 because it is easy for us to get sucked up into the Liberty bubble in start to believe we are a bigger deal nationally than we really are. Does having a bowl game on the ESPN family of networks really move the needle much for anybody that doesn't have any connection with LU at this point?

I don't think it does and haven't seen any kind of data that would suggest that. I would be interested in seeing what our ESPN+ streaming numbers are. I have never seen any of that data available.

[ballcoach15]

This leads to an interesting discussion. What determines a programs validity?

For Liberty, I would say going to bowl games. This give us more exposure, than anything we do in regular season, other than beating some P5 schools.

[Jonathan Carone]

This leads to an interesting discussion. What determines a programs validity?

Sustained success and beating teams people don’t think we’re supposed to beat. Georgia Southern was a great start but we desperately need to pull some upsets if we want to change our perception.

[Liberty22]

Yea I’m wondering even outside of LU in terms of what perception of validity for any school is. For instance, it’d be interesting to list all the FBS schools on a yes or no scale for program validity. Vanderbilt? Arkansas? Eastern Michigan? Tulsa? Utep? ODU? Akron? New Mexico? You look at some of these schools and how they’ve fared lately.... does validity change during off years or off decades for some schools? Can schools that have valid programs today become invalid. I hadn’t really thought about all this until now. What happens to Alabama if they go 6-7 years with mediocre records in the next decade? Are they still a valid program. Just some interesting musings.

[Jonathan Carone]

Most of the time validity is given to success or affiliation.

Marshall is seen as a real program because of past success and their conference affiliation.

New Mexico State has had no success recently and doesn’t belong to a league so they’re not considered in the same realm.

[PAmedic]

exacly. Like it or not, conf affiliation = validity for the vast majority of casual sports fans.

thats why Vandy, Illinois, OK St, Washington St, etc will always be legit regardless of performance

[thepostman]

Which is the main reason I don't think football Independence is sustainable long term. Unless you're Notre Dame, it just isn't something that'll work if you want to grow your program.

[Liberty22]

Which is the main reason I don't think football Independence is sustainable long term. Unless you're Notre Dame, it just isn't something that'll work if you want to grow your program.

Would independence work if a few more teams continue to go that route? I read an article recently, can’t remember where but I’m sure I could google it, that talked about how the independents almost have enough schools to become their own conference now.

[tyndal23]

Which is the main reason I don't think football Independence is sustainable long term. Unless you're Notre Dame, it just isn't something that'll work if you want to grow your program.

I completely disagree. P5 level Indy would be perfect for LU - can play every conference, recruit high level nationally, keep all tv $ and we have a built in P5 conference in our region to fill up half our schedule annually, plus enough decent teams that are Indy that round out a schedule that could be as hard as ND schedule if we wanted it to be

[Purple Haize]

This leads to an interesting discussion. What determines a programs validity?

Sustained success and beating teams people don’t think we’re supposed to beat. Georgia Southern was a great start but we desperately need to pull some upsets if we want to change our perception.

Appy St is still getting respect for beating Michigan years ago
Boise State the same with Oklahoma
Both have continued their winning ways although more so in Boise (they also market better)
Fresno State was similar but unable to sustain their success and are now an afterthought

[thepostman]

Which is the main reason I don't think football Independence is sustainable long term. Unless you're Notre Dame, it just isn't something that'll work if you want to grow your program.

I completely disagree. P5 level Indy would be perfect for LU - can play every conference, recruit high level nationally, keep all tv $ and we have a built in P5 conference in our region to fill up half our schedule annually, plus enough decent teams that are Indy that round out a schedule that could be as hard as ND schedule if we wanted it to be

That would mean that P5 conferences would have to work with us and as soon as we start winning those relationships will go away and scheduling will become much more difficult. I don't want to settle on a conference just to be in a conference but to think we can grow this program without being part of a conference seems to be based more on fantasy than reality.

Obviously you're scenario sounds awesome, I just don't see us having sustained growth as an independent.

[Purple Haize]

Which is the main reason I don't think football Independence is sustainable long term. Unless you're Notre Dame, it just isn't something that'll work if you want to grow your program.

Would independence work if a few more teams continue to go that route? I read an article recently, can’t remember where but I’m sure I could google it, that talked about how the independents almost have enough schools to become their own conference now.

But if all those Independents formed a Conference.......they wouldn’t be Independents..

[tyndal23]

I agree that P5 conferences will stop scheduling us as a G5 Indy once we win because there is a threat of losing to. G5 - unforgivable - it is a completely different deal when we are P5 equivalent . No one was rioting at USC or TN when they lost to BYU.

[thepostman]

But there is a huge historical difference between BYU and us. That is the reality of our situation. Whether we all want to admit it or not.

[Purple Haize]

But there is a huge historical difference between BYU and us. That is the reality of our situation. Whether we all want to admit it or not.

Name it and Claim it, Bro. We are who we say we are. Only you can help you. It’s not a lie, if you believe it

[tyndal23]

But there is a huge historical difference between BYU and us. That is the reality of our situation. Whether we all want to admit it or not.

And there always will be if we stay at G5 - period, end of story. No conference that we want will take us, wishing and hoping aren’t going to change that. We can control level of Indy we play in as early as 2026 based on schedule.

[tyndal23]

But there is a huge historical difference between BYU and us. That is the reality of our situation. Whether we all want to admit it or not.

Name it and Claim it, Bro. We are who we say we are. Only you can help you. It’s not a lie, if you believe it

Purple - if u don’t think the ACC Commissioner and AD’s would prefer 4 of their teams playing non con games annually against a P5 Equivalent vs a G5 - then I don’t know what else to say...

[cruzan_flame13]

But there is a huge historical difference between BYU and us. That is the reality of our situation. Whether we all want to admit it or not.

Name it and Claim it, Bro. We are who we say we are. Only you can help you. It’s not a lie, if you believe it

Or Claim it and make NCAA recognize us as P5 equivalent just like how UCF made the NCAA claim them as National Champions a couple years ago

[thepostman]

But there is a huge historical difference between BYU and us. That is the reality of our situation. Whether we all want to admit it or not.

And there always will be if we stay at G5 - period, end of story. No conference that we want will take us, wishing and hoping aren’t going to change that. We can control level of Indy we play in as early as 2026 based on schedule.

I must be missing something. How are we, a brand new FBS school, going to transform ourselves to a P5 equivalent? Nothing like that has happened in the modern history so we would have to somehow find a way to break new ground. You seem really confident that we can do this so please feel free to share your thoughts on how we make it happen.

[ballcoach15]

I hope we join ACC, Big 12 or AAC and put all other scenarios to rest.

[Purple Haize]

But there is a huge historical difference between BYU and us. That is the reality of our situation. Whether we all want to admit it or not.

And there always will be if we stay at G5 - period, end of story. No conference that we want will take us, wishing and hoping aren’t going to change that. We can control level of Indy we play in as early as 2026 based on schedule.

I must be missing something. How are we, a brand new FBS school, going to transform ourselves to a P5 equivalent? Nothing like that has happened in the modern history so we would have to somehow find a way to break new ground. You seem really confident that we can do this so please feel free to share your thoughts on how we make it happen.

Apparently LU just tells the NCAA (not exactly sure whom at the NCAA, let’s just say ‘Them’) that it is now identifying as a P5 equivalent. Which is actually genius come to think of it. Because in this day and age we aren’t supposed to question someone who identifies as something . Then you add the “Name It Claim It “ dynamic to get the Evangelical Big Dollar churches on Board and next stop.....Playing Clemson for the National Title after beating Notre Dame in the Semi Final. Doc dreamed it. So it has to happen!

Or........

LU continues to build a consistent winner and fan support. Pull off some upsets to get people to take notice and thus position themselves to look good when the next shake ups roll around.

[ballcoach15]

PH, Good post.

[tyndal23]

But there is a huge historical difference between BYU and us. That is the reality of our situation. Whether we all want to admit it or not.

And there always will be if we stay at G5 - period, end of story. No conference that we want will take us, wishing and hoping aren’t going to change that. We can control level of Indy we play in as early as 2026 based on schedule.

I must be missing something. How are we, a brand new FBS school, going to transform ourselves to a P5 equivalent? Nothing like that has happened in the modern history so we would have to somehow find a way to break new ground. You seem really confident that we can do this so please feel free to share your thoughts on how we make it happen.

We - 7 seasons from now - schedule 7-8 P5 games along with BYU Army and in 2024 work with ACC to have LU be considered a P5 equivalent in 2026 as long as we maintain a minimum # of P5 games on our schedule for their SOS just like BYU did with PAC 12. I have posted this about a dozen times but happy to keep laying it out there for you. Announce it, campaign it and most importantly recruit to it - budget every aspect of our program for it ( salaries, recruiting budget, marketing, ).

[Purple Haize]

The ACC already has an arrangement with ND. What does LU bring to the table that would make them work a similar deal? Or do you propose they drop their arrangement with ND in favor of LU?