[tyndal23]

Seems to me like we are a pretty big team. O line height and weight, Receiver height. Brought some big boys in on D Line. RB, LB and DB’s maybe still a bit undersized - but all in all - think we are starting to look like a respectable FBS team when getting off the bus. Pretty amazing to look back at team pics 30 years ago and how big everyone seemed when in reality it is mainly due to body types and the huge pads of the era. I think the body fat has dropped tremendously, strength programs focused on speed and athleticism vs buik and power. Not just Big 12 where they focus on 90 plays a game endurance but even SEC. For example - Alabama D Line - they weigh more and are certainly taller, but look more like NBA power forwards with huge wing spans, low body fat and little pads - that belies just how big and athletic/strong they are. I guess maybe that is D ends more than tackles, but even a lot of SECtackles appear to weigh 260 vs the 320 plus they really are. Any hoo ( I don’t know the French word for that BJ ) - I like hearing how each LU player has a customized plan - gain 15, lose 10 etc - staff knows exactly what they want out of each guy and a plan to make it happen - training table is huge ( surprised FB doesn’t have one to themselves ). Twitter has a video of it opening today. 2 lazy to post it here - have to leave some work for Manson.

[CCWMichael]

Seems to me like we are a pretty big team. O line height and weight, Receiver height. Brought some big boys in on D Line. RB, LB and DB’s maybe still a bit undersized - but all in all - think we are starting to look like a respectable FBS team when getting off the bus. Pretty amazing to look back at team pics 30 years ago and how big everyone seemed when in reality it is mainly due to body types and the huge pads of the era. I think the body fat has dropped tremendously, strength programs focused on speed and athleticism vs buik and power. Not just Big 12 where they focus on 90 plays a game endurance but even SEC. For example - Alabama D Line - they weigh more and are certainly taller, but look more like NBA power forwards with huge wing spans, low body fat and little pads - that belies just how big and athletic/strong they are. I guess maybe that is D ends more than tackles, but even a lot of SECtackles appear to weigh 260 vs the 320 plus they really are. Any hoo ( I don’t know the French word for that BJ ) - I like hearing how each LU player has a customized plan - gain 15, lose 10 etc - staff knows exactly what they want out of each guy and a plan to make it happen - training table is huge ( surprised FB doesn’t have one to themselves ). Twitter has a video of it opening today. 2 lazy to post it here - have to leave some work for Manson.

I would disagree. We are small. For an example I think during the open spring practice there were only a handful of players taller than I. I sit six four. The reach does not appear very big. My goodness, the back end of the D is tiny. Even O line and D Line guys are much smaller the most P5 schools. I am up at PSU every year mingling with their talent and I am dwarfed by many of the players minus the quick guys and even a few of them have size and more importantly reach. Small does not diminish talent but size certainly does not hurt and we do lack. We have a long way to go in size.

[tyndal23]

I said FBS not P5 and our D Line looks a little different than last spring with the cats they brought in. But you have seen them in person and I haven’t - just reading the roster - Syracuse doesn’t look that big to me when watching La Familia or whatever they call their series covering training camp. We will see in 9 days how big we look lined up against them.

[jinxy]

Syracuse wont have a size advantage. Speed yes but not size. Dline is completely different than spring. Dbs are still a bit short yes.

Oline is a little shorter than p5 programs but we will stand up against most of our schedule.

[olldflame]

While roster information is not always 100% accurate, it is probably more reliable than guestimates from watching a practice/scrimmage. We have 12 linemen 6'5" or taller on the roster and 15 300 pounds and up. There are also a few more who are 6'4" and/or 285-295. We have plenty of size. The issue is whether they have the athleticism and technique to compete with the big guys they will face against the likes of Syracuse, UVA, Rutgers and BYU.

[jinxy]

Well stated. Specifically regarding our o line. I believe we have a log of legit p5 talent on the d line between our 4 ends james lloyd and green. Those guys have the size and athleticism

Oline has the size but probably not the athleticism across the board other than schultz. He has gotten quite a bit of national attention this offseason with his run blocking.

Scheme can help mask that quite a bit, something dailey hadnt the slightest clue how to do against auburn. Freeze and co will help mask that against the cuse uva byu type teams by moving the pocket and incorporating the rpo along with of course tempo which keeps the defense on their heels and wears the pass rush down. Freeze runs the perfect offense to mask lask of o line athleticism


Fast forward when schlittler may and hannibal type guys starting getting here a couple years into their development and then we flip the script with size and athleticism.

[TH Spangler]

Well stated. Specifically regarding our o line. I believe we have a log of legit p5 talent on the d line between our 4 ends james lloyd and green. Those guys have the size and athleticism

Oline has the size but probably not the athleticism across the board other than schultz. He has gotten quite a bit of national attention this offseason with his run blocking.

Scheme can help mask that quite a bit, something dailey hadnt the slightest clue how to do against auburn. Freeze and co will help mask that against the cuse uva byu type teams by moving the pocket and incorporating the rpo along with of course tempo which keeps the defense on their heels and wears the pass rush down. Freeze runs the perfect offense to mask lask of o line athleticism


Fast forward when schlittler may and hannibal type guys starting getting here a couple years into their development and then we flip the script with size and athleticism.

That translates directly into inability to sustain blocks—we can make contact but don’t have the athleticism yet to sustain blocks i.e. hold them long enough to be really effective. It’s a matter of seconds that most won’t perceive but means everything. Line play is much quicker ‘up close and personal’ than it appears from the stands—more of a feel than a sight thing.

By the way, some of the best linemen are 5’11 or 6' and 245 to 260 lbs but very athletic. The perfect O lineman would be 5’ and 400 lbs—the Human Manhole Cover, but extremely athletic. Someone like that would take away any D lineman’s leverage by getting directly into his center of gravity and reducing movement capability. Of course, people of those dimensions are not usually athletic. Need to start an OL breeding ranch—it would change the game!

With that particular OL weakness exposed, the remedy would be to reduce vulnerability by:

· Quick hitting inside running game. Don’t need to sustain blocks, just make good contact.

· FORGET passing from the pocket, which is ALL about sustained blocks. An aggressive short passing game from inside play action will suck the linebackers toward the line and open the midfield for quick hitting passes. Who cares if it’s not sexy long passes? 8 and 10 yard passing gains eat up the field and the clock. When the linebackers get wise and hang back a little, the inside running game becomes more effective.

· This way, the success of the run and pass games has little or no dependency on sustained blocks while the OL gets real world game reps and sharpens their skills.

· If we try to run the regular stuff against a strong opponent like Syracuse, the athleticism of their inside the box guys will likely prevail over our OL. But we can take that advantage away from Syracuse, or any opponent, through adjustment. Bill Belichick is the master, Yoda, the Last Word on this. His team looks different every week because he plays and adjusts specifically to New England’s strengths (or weaknesses) and the other team’s weakness (or strengths).

Go get em Freeze! Go Flames!

[LU 57]

Yeah, I am going to have to disagree with, "...the best linemen are 5'11" or 6' and 245 to 260 lbs but very athletic". An OL that size is going to have an extremely tough time getting a punch on longer FBS DL, much less stopping a bull rush. These days 6'4" makes you a center in the P5. The 6'7" guys that used to be power forwards are tackles now.

[TH Spangler]

Yeah, I am going to have to disagree with, "...the best linemen are 5'11" or 6' and 245 to 260 lbs but very athletic". An OL that size is going to have an extremely tough time getting a punch on longer FBS DL, much less stopping a bull rush. These days 6'4" makes you a center in the P5. The 6'7" guys that used to be power forwards are tackles now.

Yes I guess you're right, the trend in the NFL is bigger is better. But athleticism is king?

[tyndal23]

KSU has consistently put together no name O Line teams with smaller guys - but they were all HS wrestlers, nasty and leverage is second nature to them. Army is a pretty good example of much less superior athletes that own the LOC due to scheme, discipline and attitude. A lot of real big guys are wimps ( pretty good article the other day about how long it took an OU guy toe get mean in college after being biggest guy and playing “nice” all jr high/hs ) I don’t think BAMA has any big “nice guys”. But big guys who have nasty attitudes are rare. Kids are getting much bigger, but the game has changed a lot due to spread offense - O Linemen are having biggest learning curve coming out of a lot of High Schools - some have never had their hand in the dirt. ( i have to hear this on local sports radio all the time from an ex Lineman who talks about it incessantly ) But bigger isn’t always better - did you guys know UMASS was biggest O Line in country by weight last year ( that stat shocked me at the time when we played them ).

[LU 57]

Yeah, I am going to have to disagree with, "...the best linemen are 5'11" or 6' and 245 to 260 lbs but very athletic". An OL that size is going to have an extremely tough time getting a punch on longer FBS DL, much less stopping a bull rush. These days 6'4" makes you a center in the P5. The 6'7" guys that used to be power forwards are tackles now.

Yes I guess you're right, the trend in the NFL is bigger is better. But athleticism is king?

Athleticism is always king, but tyndal is definitely onto something regarding demeanor. I coach middle school football and have had several "Tarzans that play like Jane" (tyndal has definitely heard that reference ). In other words, big, strong, athletic kids who are just too nice on the field at this point. BTW I always hated facing former wrestlers (I played hoops). They understand leverage better than anyone.

[Purple Haize]

I’m just disappointed my posts got deleted

[CCWMichael]

I’m just disappointed my posts got deleted

Latent hatred for PH somewheres.

[Purple Haize]

I’m just disappointed my posts got deleted

Latent hatred for PH somewheres.

#freePH

[olldflame]

Short, athletic OL can be effective at G and C. Actually, our starters at those positions are 6'0" and 6'1", but still average over 300. Tackle is an altogether different animal. You need guys with long arms (which usually means tall) to be able to force the speed rushers at DE far enough outside to keep them from getting a straight shot at the QB. You almost never see an OT under 6'4", and 6'5" or taller is what you really want.

[jinxy]

Lots of good posts. The only thing i would add is that our o line is probably good enough to match up with 8 of our 12 opponents head to head. Maybe even 9. Its the good p5 teams that we will have to outscheme a bit. Again the cuse are not as big as some p5 teams up front but they are athletic. Its big and athletic that will give us fits....see auburn.