Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

By LUDad
Posts
#561430
BJ made a good post in the game thread about potential AAC & Sun Belt bowl teams. I hope he moves his post over here.

In BJ's post he mentions that we have more of a chance of a Cure Bowl spot coming available from the Sun Belt side. However, the AAC has 7 bowl tie-ins along with secondary agreements with two other bowls. Additionally, the AAC has two nationally ranked teams, one of which is top 10. The highest ranked G5 team at the end of the year will play in either the playoffs or a New Years Day Bowl. I am certain that this spot will go to one of the AAC Flordia teams. This meams that the AAC needs to fill at least 8 slots with two more slots that are still in play (one of which could very well go to the other Flordia team). So we still have a good chance of obtaining a bowl slot from the AAC side.
By ballcoach15
Registration Days Posts
#561432
I even saw some bowl projections that had UVA in them. If UVA can go to a bowl there's hope for everyone. Also Coastal Carolina was mentioned as possibility for several bowls. I don't know what makes them so bowl attractive.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#561435
LUDad wrote:BJ made a good post in the game thread about potential AAC & Sun Belt bowl teams. I hope he moves his post over here.

In BJ's post he mentions that we have more of a chance of a Cure Bowl spot coming available from the Sun Belt side. However, the AAC has 7 bowl tie-ins along with secondary agreements with two other bowls. Additionally, the AAC has two nationally ranked teams, one of which is top 10. The highest ranked G5 team at the end of the year will play in either the playoffs or a New Years Day Bowl. I am certain that this spot will go to one of the AAC Flordia teams. This meams that the AAC needs to fill at least 8 slots with two more slots that are still in play (one of which could very well go to the other Flordia team). So we still have a good chance of obtaining a bowl slot from the AAC side.
Thank you LUDad. Here is the post in question:
Here are the full standings for the Sun Belt and American after yesterday:

Image

Image

The Sun Belt currently has 1 team automatically bowl eligible (GaSou) and two others on the cusp (App State and Troy, who we beat) with three others on 4 wins (Louisiana-Monroe, Coastal and Arkansas State).

The American has 4 teams automatically bowl eligible (# 10 UCF, #21 USF, Cincinnati and Houston), with one team on the cusp (Temple) and one on 4 wins (Memphis)

Our best bet is if the Sun Belt comes to up short

Coastal plays one team on 4 wins (Arkansas State) in their final 5 games, but also faces bowl eligible GaSou and 5 win App State after Georgia State this week
Arkansas State, in addition to Coastal, gets 4 win Louisiana-Monroe and 3 win ULL.
ULM, who only.has 4 games left, gets GaSou this weekend.

In short, we need to be rooting for the #FunBelt to be beating each other up these last 5 games behind GaSou, Troy and App State
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#561438
Is it still true that if a conference can not fulfill its obligation to provide an eligible team, that bowl could go anywhere to get a team?

I understand tie-in’s are important, but I recall some bowls in years past having no other tie-in to a conference so they got whoever they could find that was at least eligible. Still true?
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#561439
Also if UCF ends up in the New Year 6 game then that would also take a team out of the pool of AAC teams.
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#561441
JK37 wrote:Is it still true that if a conference can not fulfill its obligation to provide an eligible team, that bowl could go anywhere to get a team?

I understand tie-in’s are important, but I recall some bowls in years past having no other tie-in to a conference so they got whoever they could find that was at least eligible. Still true?
Once a bowls tie ins are exhausted and there still isn't an eligible team, they will look outside to fill it. If the AAC and SBC produce teams for the Cure Bowl(and we qualify) a 7-5 or 6-6 Liberty would be considered before any 5-7 teams.

I our case with the Cure, we are a secondary tie in and will get in if the AAC or SBC cannot produce(and we qualify). We would have priority over external schools.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#561442
ballcoach15 wrote:I even saw some bowl projections that had UVA in them. If UVA can go to a bowl there's hope for everyone. Also Coastal Carolina was mentioned as possibility for several bowls. I don't know what makes them so bowl attractive.
You don´t have to be attractive to get in a low level bowl. Just eligible.
User avatar
By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#561443
Just to clear a few things up that I've read on here over the past week or two.

1. We need 6 qualifying FBS wins to qualify. So, basically our Norfolk State game doesn't matter at this point. We have to win 2 of our next 4 games.
2. Even if there are not enough AAC and/or Sun Belt teams to fill all their slots (Cure Bowl included), all other bowl eligible teams from all other conferences would have to have a spot before Liberty can be picked to a bowl (Cure Bowl or anywhere else).

So, we need to be pulling for Liberty to win 2 more FBS games and there to be not enough teams that qualify for all the bowl spots.
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#561446
I'll be honest, I'd be pretty disappointed if that was pir opponent in our first bowl game.

On the flip side, it would feel great to destroy them in a bowl game. Haha
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#561449
Because we keep going around in circles on this. There is a lot of misinformation that is not based on research.

If Liberty finishes with a 6-6 record, they will be eligible once an "Insufficient Number of Deserving Teams" has been determined. Liberty cannot be eligible with a 7-5 record before this rule goes into effect. It won't hurt things, but it won't make us eligible.

Current Handbook for Selection 2018-2019
Eligible Teams
An eligible team is defined as one that has won a number of games against Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS)
opponents that is equal to or greater than the number of its overall losses (e.g., a record of 6-6, or better). Tie or
forfeited games do not count in determining won-lost record.
Insufficient Number of Deserving Teams
If an insufficient number of institutions does not meet the definition of a "deserving team" to participate in
postseason bowl games in a particular year, an institution that meets a condition set forth below shall be eligible
as an alternate to be selected to participate in such a bowl game after all deserving teams have been selected to
participate. All institutions that meet the first condition must be selected before an institution that meets the second
condition may be selected and so forth in descending order. The conditions below represents the order in which
alternates are identified in the event there are insufficient number of deserving teams:

1. An institution that would have met the FCS Opponent exception but for the fact that one victory was against
a FCS opponent that had not averaged 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per
year in football during a rolling two-year period and the institution's waiver request was denied.


2. An institution that participated in 13 regular-season contests and finished the season with a record of six
wins and seven losses.


3. An institution that is in its final year of reclassification from the Football Championship Subdivision to the
Football Bowl Subdivision and meets the definition of a "deserving team".



4. An institution that finished its season with a minimum of five wins and a maximum of seven losses and
achieves a multiyear football APR score that permits participation in the postseason (e.g., 930) to be
identified as alternates in descending order of the most recently published multiyear FBS football APR
scores. If the APR in the FBS for the most recent reporting year ends in a tie between two or more teams,
then the single-year APR in the FBS, beginning with the most recent reporting year and continuing until the
tie is broken, shall be used to determine which team(s) will be identified as alternates. An alternate’s
institution must affirmatively state where the team will participate, if selected as an alternate. If the
alternate’s institution elects to participate, then the identified alternate’s institution is responsible for
selecting which of the remaining postseason bowl games the alternate will participate in, and the terms of
that participation shall remain the same as the terms with the originally contracted conference.
Article from the NCAA in 2012 explaining the rules that are still current.
First pool: Teams that finish 6-6 but would not normally be bowl eligible because they have a win against a Football Championship Subdivison team.


Second pool: A team that has a 6-6 record but beat two FCS teams.


Third pool: A team that finished with a 6-7 record, with the seventh loss being in a conference championship game.


Fourth pool: A team that played 13 games but finished with a 6-7 record.


Fifth pool: A team in the process of reclassifying to FBS football and has at least a 6-6 record.


Sixth pool: Any top 5 APR team with a 5-7 record.
SB Nation Explaining it after game cancellations(but they forgot that Liberty is a thing.)
If there aren’t enough 6-6 teams, the NCAA looks to teams from these groups:

Teams that couldn’t count an FCS win because of a weird scholarship thing, if they’re otherwise eligible. (This is sort of related to something that almost happened to Florida State in 2017, but ultimately didn’t.)

Teams that played 13 regular season games and went 6-7

Teams in their second year of FBS reclassification, if they’re .500 or better (only Coastal Carolina could be in this group this year)

Five-win teams with the highest Academic Progress Report scores
ESPN When they expanded these tie breakers
Ordinarily, teams need to finish with a minimum .500 winning percentage with at least six wins -- five against other Football Bowl Subdivision teams -- to be bowl eligible. A sixth win against a Football Championship Subdivision team only counts if the FCS school meets scholarship requirements.

Now, first consideration will go to 6-6 teams with a win against any FCS teams, regardless of scholarships, then 6-6 teams with two wins against FCS schools.

A team that finishes 6-7 and loses in a conference championship would be next, followed by 6-7 teams that normally play a 13-team schedule, such as Hawaii and its home opponents.

Then bowls could then invite FCS teams making the move to FBS, if they have at least a 6-6 record.
By LUDad
Posts
#561454
jcmanson wrote:Just to clear a few things up that I've read on here over the past week or two.

1. We need 6 qualifying FBS wins to qualify. So, basically our Norfolk State game doesn't matter at this point. We have to win 2 of our next 4 games.
2. Even if there are not enough AAC and/or Sun Belt teams to fill all their slots (Cure Bowl included), all other bowl eligible teams from all other conferences would have to have a spot before Liberty can be picked to a bowl (Cure Bowl or anywhere else).

So, we need to be pulling for Liberty to win 2 more FBS games and there to be not enough teams that qualify for all the bowl spots.
With all due respect, please show your source of information demonstrating that LU needs six FBS wins vs. the four FBS + two FCS wins to be bowl eligible. Note that I stated "eligible". I have made about eight posts that contradict your position. I certainly don't want to continue posting errant info.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#561464
If LU gets into a Bowl game it will demonstrate how truly jacked up the Bowl Shstem has become.
User avatar
By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#561465
LUDad wrote:
jcmanson wrote:Just to clear a few things up that I've read on here over the past week or two.

1. We need 6 qualifying FBS wins to qualify. So, basically our Norfolk State game doesn't matter at this point. We have to win 2 of our next 4 games.
2. Even if there are not enough AAC and/or Sun Belt teams to fill all their slots (Cure Bowl included), all other bowl eligible teams from all other conferences would have to have a spot before Liberty can be picked to a bowl (Cure Bowl or anywhere else).

So, we need to be pulling for Liberty to win 2 more FBS games and there to be not enough teams that qualify for all the bowl spots.
With all due respect, please show your source of information demonstrating that LU needs six FBS wins vs. the four FBS + two FCS wins to be bowl eligible. Note that I stated "eligible". I have made about eight posts that contradict your position. I certainly don't want to continue posting errant info.
To be bowl eligible a team needs 6 FBS wins or can use 5 FBS wins + 1 FCS win provided the FCS team has a certain number of scholarships. That's well documented everywhere. If we're 6-6 with 2 FCS wins, 5-7 APR teams can go ahead of us.

Ian McCaw and several members of Liberty's athletic department have also told me the same.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
Posts
#561470
jcmanson wrote:
LUDad wrote:
jcmanson wrote:Just to clear a few things up that I've read on here over the past week or two.

1. We need 6 qualifying FBS wins to qualify. So, basically our Norfolk State game doesn't matter at this point. We have to win 2 of our next 4 games.
2. Even if there are not enough AAC and/or Sun Belt teams to fill all their slots (Cure Bowl included), all other bowl eligible teams from all other conferences would have to have a spot before Liberty can be picked to a bowl (Cure Bowl or anywhere else).

So, we need to be pulling for Liberty to win 2 more FBS games and there to be not enough teams that qualify for all the bowl spots.
With all due respect, please show your source of information demonstrating that LU needs six FBS wins vs. the four FBS + two FCS wins to be bowl eligible. Note that I stated "eligible". I have made about eight posts that contradict your position. I certainly don't want to continue posting errant info.
To be bowl eligible a team needs 6 FBS wins or can use 5 FBS wins + 1 FCS win provided the FCS team has a certain number of scholarships. That's well documented everywhere. If we're 6-6 with 2 FCS wins, 5-7 APR teams can go ahead of us.

Ian McCaw and several members of Liberty's athletic department have also told me the same.
Everything you said is wrong and I have four cited sources with quotes above that say so.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#561471
FIGHT !!! FIGHT!!! FIGHT!!
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#561475
It is common knowledge if I'm not mistaken that only one win over an FCS team can serve as a "counter" towards bowl eligibility for an FBS team. Im no paid writer with a Rolodex full of sources and the ADs number in my contacts and i know that
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
Posts
#561477
BJWilliams wrote:It is common knowledge if I'm not mistaken that only one win over an FCS team can serve as a "counter" towards bowl eligibility for an FBS team. Im no paid writer with a Rolodex full of sources and the ADs number in my contacts and i know that
Correct. But we are not an FBS team. We are a team in the second year of a transition from FCS to FBS.
User avatar
By prototype
Registration Days Posts
#561484
We are probably going to win one more game this year, against Norfolk. Not make a bowl and I'm fine with that. Actually - they have exceeded my expectations this year already. 5 wins in first year and beat 3 FBS schools? I'll take it. This process isn't immediate and we knew would take time. Just because you have more scholarships to offer, doesn't mean that we can find enough FBS quality players to take them. Making a bowl this year will water down the urgency to keep getting better athletes, IMO.
By LUDad
Posts
#561485
I stand corrected. Wikipedia needs to correct its website. But hey, if it's on the web it has to be correct...right?

Selection of Institutions

Access
A bowl game must serve the purpose of providing a national contest between eligible teams. The competing institutions shall be active members of the Association, and participation shall be in accordance with the provisions of NCAA Bylaw 17.9 and Bylaw 18.7.2.

Eligible Teams
An eligible team is defined as one that has won a number of games against Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) opponents that is equal to or greater than the number of its overall losses (e.g., a record of 6-6, or better). Tie or forfeited games do not count in determining won-lost record.

Exception – FCS Opponent
Each year, a FBS institution may count one victory against a Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) opponent that has averaged 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in football during a rolling two-year period. However, The Football Oversight Committee may approve a waiver of the 90 percent requirement to permit a FBS institution to count a victory against a FCS opponent toward meeting the definition of a “deserving team,” if a unique or catastrophic situation affects the FCS institution’s ability to average 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of football grants-in-aid per year during a rolling two-year period.

Exception – Deserving Team That Loses Conference Championship Game
An institution that finishes its regular season having met the definition of a "deserving team" but loses its conference championship game shall continue to be considered a deserving team.

Insufficient Number of Deserving Teams
If an insufficient number of institutions does not meet the definition of a "deserving team" to participate in postseason bowl games in a particular year, an institution that meets a condition set forth below shall be eligible as an alternate to be selected to participate in such a bowl game after all deserving teams have been selected to participate. All institutions that meet the first condition must be selected before an institution that meets the second condition may be selected and so forth in descending order. The conditions below represents the order in which alternates are identified in the event there are insufficient number of deserving teams:

1. An institution that would have met the FCS Opponent exception but for the fact that one victory was against a FCS opponent that had not averaged 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in football during a rolling two-year period and the institution's waiver request was denied.

2. An institution that participated in 13 regular-season contests and finished the season with a record of six wins and seven losses.

3. An institution that is in its final year of reclassification from the Football Championship Subdivision to the Football Bowl Subdivision and meets the definition of a "deserving team".

4. An institution that finished its season with a minimum of five wins and a maximum of seven losses and achieves a multiyear football APR score that permits participation in the postseason (e.g., 930) to be identified as alternates in descending order of the most recently published multiyear FBS football APR scores. If the APR in the FBS for the most recent reporting year ends in a tie between two or more teams, then the single-year APR in the FBS, beginning with the most recent reporting year and continuing until the tie is broken, shall be used to determine which team(s) will be identified as alternates. An alternate’s institution must affirmatively state where the team will participate, if selected as an alternate. If the alternate’s institution elects to participate, then the identified alternate’s institution is responsible for selecting which of the remaining postseason bowl games the alternate will participate in, and the terms of that participation shall remain the same as the terms with the originally contracted conference.

Full NCAA Bowl handbook is at link below:
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/arti ... games-work
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#561488
ballcoach15 wrote:I even saw some bowl projections that had UVA in them. If UVA can go to a bowl there's hope for everyone. Also Coastal Carolina was mentioned as possibility for several bowls. I don't know what makes them so bowl attractive.
My guess, is that UVa will finish strong and after playing them, we'll all realize that we have a long row to hoe to be competitive with at least two of our FBS neighbors (and one FCS neighbor who would thump us like a drum).
By ballcoach15
Registration Days Posts
#561495
We need 6 wins. Only 1 FCS win can count. This rule was put in place to prevent teams from playing 2 or 3 FCS teams every year hoping to win 6 games and go bowling.

If it wasn't for this rule, schools like UVA would schedule Richmond, Wm and Mary plus one other every year. Didn't UVA back out of a game with LU 2 , 3 or 4 years ago ?
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