Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#557780
YR, I fail to see how JJ’s comments directly point to a lack of understanding about the issue. By “inferring”, you are making some leap from his comments to the idea that he doesn’t understand.

It seems to me that by disagreeing, you assume he doesn’t understand. One can understand perfectly and still disagree.

I used to believe if someone didn’t agree with me, they just didn’t understand and/or I wasn’t doing a good enough job communicating my point. Like, if I could just fitfully explain it, they HAVE to agree.

After a lot of growth and life experience, I found this to not be true.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#557781
So if LU doesn’t wear Nike’s it signals to black athletes everywhere that LU doesn’t care about them or black people anywhere?
Is this a standard that is going to be used for schools that wear UA and adidas? Because it’s not a far logical leap to say “if those schools don’t drop those brands then they must not care about black athletes either”
Absolute ludicrousness. If LU wants to drop their deal with Nike because of Kap they can find away. It’s the same side of the coin as Nike trying to get people to BUY stuff using the Kap commercials. Fair game.
Yeah, people burning stuff they already bought....stupid. Geez at least donate it make a statement THAT way!
The BEST thing about the whole thing is the rich meme environment!
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#557782
YR and SJ - I would rather he stood at attention during the anthem. He didn’t just draw attention to an issue; he drew attention to himself. I believe he actually has drawn more to himself than to the issue overall - but I can’t prove that. That last part is just a feeling in my gut.
User avatar
By Liberty22
Registration Days Posts
#557783
jinxy wrote:I read the article. I get on here and see people losing their minds. I go back and read the article again thinking i must have missed something inflammatory that Jr. said. I'm still trying to find something wrong with what he said. He was asked for a quote, provided a detailed answer of what he was concerned about (which was fair) and admitted that it might not be possible to get out of it even if he decided he wanted to.

Second, the idea that "all the other major shoe companies wanted Kaepernick" is 100% false and the idea that leaving nike would sink our program is hilarious as well. I can say for certain that there is at least 1 other major company that had and has zero interest in making Kaepernick the face of anything (and would sign us tomorrow). We could and probably should have switched to them in the past few years anyway. I can tell you for a fact this company and likely others are salivating at the mistake Nike has made (whether you agree or disagree with Kaepernick, it's terrible business).

Regarding shoes - you can find a few morons that believe any idea about anything and can get them to do anything. So of course there are few people burning shoes. 99% of people against what Kaepernick has done will simply bump Nike down the list for future purchases. This will inevitably hurt Nike no matter what SJW's want to say.

Kaepernick as the face...cmon.

-cops as pig socks
-clueless about his original protest
-castro shirt (unbelievable)
-starting qb for 49ers wears dolphins hat to party (just dumb) wear another sport
-admitted he would stand the next year once he realized his drama outweighed his talent (same as tebow) both could have stayed in the league as 2nd or 3rd stringers

Making that guy the face of any campaign is an insult to all police, cubans & quite a bit of the rest of society. If you want to move that narrative use Michael Jenkins, Anquan Boldin or Chris Long. Though i don't agree with all of what they say i respect them because the way they've done what they've done and the arguments are coherent and they've backed it up $ wise. Kaepernick did only after he was forced into a corner.
Totally off topic but time to change your signature Jinxy cause we are in fact out of the big south now! :mrgreen:
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#557784
JK37 wrote:YR and SJ - I would rather he stood at attention during the anthem. He didn’t just draw attention to an issue; he drew attention to himself. I believe he actually has drawn more to himself than to the issue overall - but I can’t prove that. That last part is just a feeling in my gut.
A more powerful protest symbol would be to kneel the first play from scrimmage. Hard to send a mix signal that way
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#557785
Purple Haize wrote:So if LU doesn’t wear Nike’s it signals to black athletes everywhere that LU doesn’t care about them or black people anywhere?
A school choosing another apparel company doesn’t signal that.

A school getting out of a contract and/or changing providers due to Nike using Kaepernick as the face of a marketing campaign does signal that.
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#557786
I do agree Kap is certainly not the man many people make him out to be. There are so many other black athletes who I dont always agree with but have done so much more for this issue.

With that said Kap is going to make Nike a ton of money because athletes like him.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#557787
Jonathan Carone wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:So if LU doesn’t wear Nike’s it signals to black athletes everywhere that LU doesn’t care about them or black people anywhere?
A school choosing another apparel company doesn’t signal that.

A school getting out of a contract and/or changing providers due to Nike using Kaepernick as the face of a marketing campaign does signal that.
By the same token then a school NOT choosing to drop another supplier and sign with Nike signals that.
User avatar
By Liberty22
Registration Days Posts
#557788
Jonathan Carone wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:So if LU doesn’t wear Nike’s it signals to black athletes everywhere that LU doesn’t care about them or black people anywhere?
A school choosing another apparel company doesn’t signal that.

A school getting out of a contract and/or changing providers due to Nike using Kaepernick as the face of a marketing campaign does signal that.
:nod
User avatar
By Liberty22
Registration Days Posts
#557789
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:So if LU doesn’t wear Nike’s it signals to black athletes everywhere that LU doesn’t care about them or black people anywhere?
A school choosing another apparel company doesn’t signal that.

A school getting out of a contract and/or changing providers due to Nike using Kaepernick as the face of a marketing campaign does signal that.
By the same token then a school NOT choosing to drop another supplier and sign with Nike signals that.
Nobody will view it that way though. Noone is going to say oh you stayed in your contract with Addidas after the Nike Kap ad and didn't sign on so you must hate black athletes. But they will DEFINITELY view us dropping mid contract as that.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#557790
Yeah, Junxy suggests NIKE will lose money. No way!! They’re taking a calculated gamble - a “gamble” because nothing is ansure thing - and the data suggests the overwhelming majority of their target market support Kap. So, it’s all about the money. Good call by Nike there.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#557791
Liberty22 wrote:
Nobody will view it that way though. Noone is going to say oh you stayed in your contract with Addidas after the Nike Kap ad and didn't sign on so you must hate black athletes. But they will DEFINITELY view us dropping mid contract as that.
This is what I meant by apology, 22. You keep thinking we should adapt because of others’ ignorance.

If people are dumb enough to see this wrongly, so be it. Not LU nor anyone else should change or apologize for the ignorance of others.
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#557794
JK37 wrote:YR and SJ - I would rather he stood at attention during the anthem. He didn’t just draw attention to an issue; he drew attention to himself.
But he didn’t draw attention to himself. If you remember back, neither of the first two games where he sat was there any mention of him sitting. It wasn’t shown during the broadcast. There was no press conference, press release, or grandstanding from him. He quietly sat so as to not bring attention to himself.

It wasn’t until the media asked him about it after the game that it became a big deal. He then knelt after a member of the military suggested he do that because it signaled respect more than idly sitting.

How can you or I expect someone to stand at attention and honor something they don’t believe in? I grew up with friends who were Jehovah’s Witnesses and never once thought they were disrespectful for not saying the Pledge of Allegiance. Their value system said that they didn’t do that. That’s their rights as Americans. Just like it’s Kaepernick’s right to sit/kneel and it’s his employer’s right to put in a rule saying standing was the expectation.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#557795
JK37 wrote:
Liberty22 wrote:
Nobody will view it that way though. Noone is going to say oh you stayed in your contract with Addidas after the Nike Kap ad and didn't sign on so you must hate black athletes. But they will DEFINITELY view us dropping mid contract as that.
This is what I meant by apology, 22. You keep thinking we should adapt because of others’ ignorance.

If people are dumb enough to see this wrongly, so be it. Not LU nor anyone else should change or apologize for the ignorance of others.
That’s why the first position is bogus. Because if it WERE true you darn well better believe it would be used out on the recruiting trail mercilessly
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#557796
JK37 wrote:
Liberty22 wrote:
Nobody will view it that way though. Noone is going to say oh you stayed in your contract with Addidas after the Nike Kap ad and didn't sign on so you must hate black athletes. But they will DEFINITELY view us dropping mid contract as that.
This is what I meant by apology, 22. You keep thinking we should adapt because of others’ ignorance.

“People will see Liberty dropping it’s contract as ‘Liberty hates black people.’”

If people are dumb enough to see such a decision that way, so be it. Not LU nor anyone else should change or apologize for that kind of ignorance by others.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#557797
Felt I needed to clarify my original reply.

That’s ironic.
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#557798
JK37 wrote:Yeah, Junxy suggests NIKE will lose money. No way!! They’re taking a calculated gamble - a “gamble” because nothing is ansure thing - and the data suggests the overwhelming majority of their target market support Kap. So, it’s all about the money. Good call by Nike there.
Nike sales are up 31% as of today.

Also - Yahoo reported both Adidas and Puma wanted to give Kaepernick his own shoe. So there was definite interest there.

The only major apparel company who hasn’t been interested is Under Armour. Their stock has also been tanking for the last year or so and they aren’t in a position to take risks like this.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#557799
JK37 wrote:YR, I fail to see how JJ’s comments directly point to a lack of understanding about the issue. By “inferring”, you are making some leap from his comments to the idea that he doesn’t understand.

It seems to me that by disagreeing, you assume he doesn’t understand. One can understand perfectly and still disagree.

I used to believe if someone didn’t agree with me, they just didn’t understand and/or I wasn’t doing a good enough job communicating my point. Like, if I could just fitfully explain it, they HAVE to agree.

After a lot of growth and life experience, I found this to not be true.
His statements about being confused whether Nike was anti law enforcement or anti military indicates that he doesn’t understand. He could say, “I think the anthem is sacred but I understand what people are trying to say, etc...” but his statements indicate ignorance on this issue. I’m just going off his statements. It’s fine if he understands and then disagrees with their method, but based on his statements, he exhibits that he doesn’t understand.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#557800
JK37 wrote:YR and SJ - I would rather he stood at attention during the anthem. He didn’t just draw attention to an issue; he drew attention to himself. I believe he actually has drawn more to himself than to the issue overall - but I can’t prove that. That last part is just a feeling in my gut.
I will say we are all talking about this issue more than we were before, so I’d say it sort of worked. I’m a lifelong 49er fan and used to watch training camp growing up in the days of Montana and Rice and honestly, I never think about Kap until he comes up in the news. This issue has gotten bigger than him and, for what it’s worth, I do think Nike could have gotten much better spokespeople for a cause like this than him. I think the “Sacrifice Everything” is overselling your hand a bit. LOL. If he was scoring six points on every possession, he could be giving everyone the finger during the anthem and would probably still be on a team.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#557802
Jonathan Carone wrote:
JK37 wrote:YR and SJ - I would rather he stood at attention during the anthem. He didn’t just draw attention to an issue; he drew attention to himself.
But he didn’t draw attention to himself. If you remember back, neither of the first two games where he sat was there any mention of him sitting. It wasn’t shown during the broadcast. There was no press conference, press release, or grandstanding from him. He quietly sat so as to not bring attention to himself.

It wasn’t until the media asked him about it after the game that it became a big deal. He then knelt after a member of the military suggested he do that because it signaled respect more than idly sitting.

How can you or I expect someone to stand at attention and honor something they don’t believe in? I grew up with friends who were Jehovah’s Witnesses and never once thought they were disrespectful for not saying the Pledge of Allegiance. Their value system said that they didn’t do that. That’s their rights as Americans. Just like it’s Kaepernick’s right to sit/kneel and it’s his employer’s right to put in a rule saying standing was the expectation.
He shouldn’t have been sitting. He shouldn’t have kneeled. I don’t care who suggested it. That’s my opinion.

Having the right or the freedom to choose to do something doesn’t make it automatically a good decision. I believe it was a poor decision. And I believe it was a selfish one. Ignorant and immature.

I would rather he simply did not appear on the field until after the anthem was complete. Then the cameras aren’t even on him.

YR, you said earlier that he chose to protest where he could be seen by as many cameras as possible. I simply don’t agree with that kind of showmanship. Not at a moment when we are honoring and paying respect to the flag by standing for it while all direct their attention to it and not any person.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#557803
Wow, this whole thread just got interesting.

Maybe we should all take a step back.
User avatar
By Liberty22
Registration Days Posts
#557806
JK37 wrote:
Liberty22 wrote:
Nobody will view it that way though. Noone is going to say oh you stayed in your contract with Addidas after the Nike Kap ad and didn't sign on so you must hate black athletes. But they will DEFINITELY view us dropping mid contract as that.
This is what I meant by apology, 22. You keep thinking we should adapt because of others’ ignorance.

If people are dumb enough to see this wrongly, so be it. Not LU nor anyone else should change or apologize for the ignorance of others.
I got ya. My take though is we know some people will view it as ‘Liberty hates blacks’ if we leave mid contract. We can both agree there will be people that say that. Heck people on the ODU board this week were already saying Liberty shouldn’t be called a university because “we marginalize minorities and women” so people already think that. So my point as I said earlier is if we know that some people will see it that way, why put Christ and His name in that position? People associate Jesus with us, and when we send a signal that can be misconstrued as that why put Christ in the middle of that? That’s just my thought. I’d have stayed out of that but that’s just my opinion.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#557807
JK37 wrote: I would rather he simply did not appear on the field until after the anthem was complete. Then the cameras aren’t even on him.
That’s the thing though. The cameras weren’t on him when it started. If you remember back to the first coverage of this, the media was having to do zoomed in shots on the full field wide angle to even show what happened.

Had Kaepernick stayed in the locker room as you suggest, the media would’ve picked up on it, covered the story the same way, and we’d be in the same spot.

For a group of people who love to blame the media for everything, conservatives are really quick to shrug off the idea that the media made this into a much bigger ordeal than Kaepernick ever meant for it to be.
User avatar
By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#557808
This pretty much sums it up.

“It could be a marketing ploy and if it is, we will probably overlook it. But if it’s really how the leadership of the company feels and they’re attacking law enforcement and military folks on purpose then why deal with them when there’s plenty of others out there.”
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#557810
TH Spangler wrote:This pretty much sums it up.

“It could be a marketing ploy and if it is, we will probably overlook it. But if it’s really how the leadership of the company feels and they’re attacking law enforcement and military folks on purpose then why deal with them when there’s plenty of others out there.”
Totally sounds like marginalizing minorities. LU should sign a lifetime Nike deal to show how Woke they are!
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