Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

#557071
BuryYourDuke wrote:So at no point did I intend this thread to devolve into a conversation about race. I think if folks want to discuss racism and the church, and society at large it would be a good topic for the courtyard. There are some valid questions that both sides of the conversation I’ve read today need to be able to answer.
The best intentions of mice and men and all that
#557072
BuryYourDuke wrote:Ironically, it seems the power language is actually lost on you. At no point did I use the word slut to describe the way people were dressed on a Saturday. You wrote that into my statement. What I did say was that some here (and certainly the secular culture) seem to think that the right to dress that way is super important. You seem to have a habit of reading what you want to think into others’ statements rather than what they actually say. And I absolutely chose to use that word with intent. Because I understand the power of language.
You're right, I sometimes read into what people say instead of asking for clarification first. That is totally on me and I'll try to do better.

Your explanation makes sense to an extent but it still doesn't justify using that word in my view. I have worked many years as a sexual assault victim advocate within the military and that is where my view comes from just to put it into context. That is probably why I jumped a bit too harshly towards you. Again that is my bad and I do apologize for that.
#557151
ballcoach15 wrote:I would love to pick the music. It would be military music and some Alabama , Lee Greenwood and maybe Hank Williams, Jr.
Yes, please, esp. if you throw in some bluegrass. :boohoo

Seriously, though, is this the song that Sly used to have an issue with, or was it another song?

#557181
I did not hear that song, but again I would not have recognized it. I only recognize "old" music. I agree a song like that even with edited lyrics should not be played. I would bet that the majority of the Baptist side would not even know that song either. I have sat on the Baptist side for a long time and I vividly remember seeing the old timers get upset about the music, but now they are tapping their feet. I think they understand its just a different era.
#557260
I've read the give-and-take on this topic in this thread with great interest. Aside from the discussion about modesty, male/female dynamics, whether and to what extent religious schools should even have dress codes, whether those dress codes should extend to events outside of school, etc. --- aside from all this, I think an important point is the decline of "classiness" in general. Obviously, what is "classy" and what is "not classy" is going to differ between people, but I think most would agree in general that there has been an overall decline in "classy" dress and behavior over the years --- especially from a religious conservative standpoint. This extends beyond immodesty of dress. I think on a "good - better - best" continuum, most fans and alumni of schools like Liberty would hope for the "better-best" end of the spectrum, instead of the lower end, and that's why having stadium employees in Daisy Dukes or revealing tops is disappointing.

This is interesting to me. My alma mater, BYU, has a very strict dress code, and workers at sports events have uniforms (polos, slacks). But a hypothetical scenario where a worker were dressed like an ASU co-ed is pretty hard to imagine. In that setting, it would be really jarring and stand out, and the person would certainly be contacted by the Honor Code office. I can't see anyone even daring to do it to push the limits.

https://policy.byu.edu/view/index.php?p=26

I've been to many games in Provo over the years, and I can't say that I've seen visiting fans dressed way out of compliance with the dress code. I'm sure that visitors wouldn't be "kicked out," but I wonder how they would handle the situation if someone very immodestly dressed were at a game. I'm sure it would be vetted at the gate, but what if someone stripped down or disrobed while in the stadium? Interesting to wonder about.

Isn't there general agreement that it would be better and preferable for Liberty students and employees to look as classy and "non-edgy" as possible, in order to promote the school's mission and identity?
#557274
As far as music, the playing of music with profanity, drug culture, etc. would be pretty shocking to me in a private religious school environment.

I'm pretty old-fashioned, anyway (sort of a "get off my lawn" grumpy old man as a 43 year-old), so I don't really like music of any kind in between plays or during at bats like you find even in major league ball parks. But I definitely prefer music with broad appeal that is non-offensive and family-friendly in settings like games (if you have to have music) --- especially when there are going to be kids and families present.
#557293
Rubicon wrote:I've read the give-and-take on this topic in this thread with great interest. Aside from the discussion about modesty, male/female dynamics, whether and to what extent religious schools should even have dress codes, whether those dress codes should extend to events outside of school, etc. --- aside from all this, I think an important point is the decline of "classiness" in general. Obviously, what is "classy" and what is "not classy" is going to differ between people, but I think most would agree in general that there has been an overall decline in "classy" dress and behavior over the years --- especially from a religious conservative standpoint. This extends beyond immodesty of dress. I think on a "good - better - best" continuum, most fans and alumni of schools like Liberty would hope for the "better-best" end of the spectrum, instead of the lower end, and that's why having stadium employees in Daisy Dukes or revealing tops is disappointing.

This is interesting to me. My alma mater, BYU, has a very strict dress code, and workers at sports events have uniforms (polos, slacks). But a hypothetical scenario where a worker were dressed like an ASU co-ed is pretty hard to imagine. In that setting, it would be really jarring and stand out, and the person would certainly be contacted by the Honor Code office. I can't see anyone even daring to do it to push the limits.

https://policy.byu.edu/view/index.php?p=26

I've been to many games in Provo over the years, and I can't say that I've seen visiting fans dressed way out of compliance with the dress code. I'm sure that visitors wouldn't be "kicked out," but I wonder how they would handle the situation if someone very immodestly dressed were at a game. I'm sure it would be vetted at the gate, but what if someone stripped down or disrobed while in the stadium? Interesting to wonder about.

Isn't there general agreement that it would be better and preferable for Liberty students and employees to look as classy and "non-edgy" as possible, in order to promote the school's mission and identity?
In all fairness the females at ASU are smoking hot though
#557308
Rubicon wrote:I'm pretty old-fashioned, anyway (sort of a "get off my lawn" grumpy old man as a 43 year-old), so I don't really like music of any kind in between plays or during at bats like you find even in major league ball parks.
Ballcoach may have found a BFF. :wink: Seriously, though, Rubicon, thanks for your comments, and please keep them coming! :clapping
#557320
This thread is an area of concern that I have had for some time.

I have three children who have graduated from Liberty, and all three met and married their current spouses while there.

I have two teenagers still at home, and am concerned that Liberty may no longer be the place for them.

As Christians, we should, at all times, represent our Savior in a positive light.

What happened to the dress code that simply required modesty for everyone.?

What has happened to parents that have allowed their daughters to dress like we see today?

I wish we could hear this addressed by administration. How far will things be allowed to slide before our beloved Liberty is no longer considered Christian?

Just a thought

VaDon
#557327
ballcoach15 wrote:It even carries over to the church. I see people every Sunday morning in church dressed as if they were at the beach.
In speedo’s And bikini’s?
#557329
ballcoach15 wrote:It even carries over to the church. I see people every Sunday morning in church dressed as if they were at the beach.
Being able to dress like that is what got me back into church. So yeah, be careful where you throw your preferences around.
#557335
Honest question: if we agree university employees should appoint themselves at a higher level of decency/professionalism, do we also attribute the same standard to church leadership?

And if so, why? Honestly, if it doesn’t matter what we wear...
#557339
JK37 wrote:Honest question: if we agree university employees should appoint themselves at a higher level of decency/professionalism, do we also attribute the same standard to church leadership?

And if so, why? Honestly, if it doesn’t matter what we wear...
My standard for university employees: pants and University polo. Those pants can be slacks, khakis, or jeans depending on the role.

My standard for church leadership is to look presentable, be true to who you are, and not be a distraction.
#557340
I would not even think about walking into church on Sunday morning without a coat/tie on. I have always operated under the rule, "give the Lord your best". As Dr. Falwell said many times, "if it's Christian, it should be better".

Church is not the place to "dress down" to be of the world. Many church musicians dress as if the are playing in a night club, rather than church.
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