[Curtisc83]

Before you question the intent and values of some of these women, I’d suggest having actual conversations with them about the subject and listen to what they’re saying with the intent to understand them, not refute them. Those conversations are what changed my opinion on this.

I find it inappropriate to discuss sexual dress with a college aged female at my age.

Geez, the whole sexualizing women really reminds me of what Muslim countries. Got to cover up our women folk so we won’t be tempted to grab them....LOL. Let people do what they want. I don’t think male or female bodies are sinful people do the sinning. I was at the game and I didn’t see any female that was dress inappropriately.

[lawrenceq]

This thread is too funny. They playing Face Off at Liberty.

[Jonathan Carone]

I want nothing to do with evangelicism so hopefully I’m not a good example of where that group is at.

[Purple Haize]

I dunno. You have one dude who sells drugs for a living here so.....

[jinxy]

Ha. Postie. Im with you. I couldnt begin to understand any of the rap words. I did recognize a lecrae song. No excuse for that crap byd posted the lyrics too.

As for the dress discussion. Im not buying the impress friends thing one bit and for the few that that might be true....no words.

I can agree with jon about the rules enforcement rather than being guided by the spirit. However, there is no appreciable difference in christians and the secular world for the most part. We have allowed the line to be pushed so far on virtually every issue and guess which side always gives in. The moral side. Where does it stop?

[JK37]

I want nothing to do with evangelicism so hopefully I’m not a good example of where that group is at.

We are in the same boat there. Probably for very different reasons haha.

Ok, I’ll bite. Why not?

“Evangelicalism (/ˌiːvænˈdʒɛlɪkəlɪzəm, ˌɛvæn-, -ən/), evangelical Christianity, or evangelical Protestantism,[a] is a worldwide, transdenominational movement within Protestant Christianity which maintains the belief that the essence of the Gospel consists of the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ's atonement.[1][2][3] Evangelicals believe in the centrality of the conversion or "born again" experience in receiving salvation, in the authority of the Bible as God's revelation to humanity, and in spreading the Christian message. The movement has had a long presence in the Anglosphere before spreading further afield in the 19th, 20th and early 21st centuries.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism

I know it’s Wiki, but what wrong with the Gospel, Biblical authority, and wanting to spread it?

Honestly asking.

[Jonathan Carone]

Reputation and association.

I don’t want to be associated with Trump.

I don’t want to be associated with America first and not Gospel first.

I don’t want to be associated with white supremacy.

I don’t want to be associated with the sexual misconduct coverups that have happened in so many leadership-driven Evangelical churches.

When the world hears “evangelical” they think of Jerry Jr and the last thing I want is for people to think I stand for the same things as him.

[Jonathan Carone]

Evangelicism is a lot like the Democratic Party:

There is overarching belief that is the big giant tent everyone fits under but once there, there’s a lot of different belief sets and arguments.

I’d rather build my own tent in both arenas.

[Purple Haize]

Reputation and association.

I don’t want to be associated with Trump.

I don’t want to be associated with America first and not Gospel first.

I don’t want to be associated with white supremacy.

I don’t want to be associated with the sexual misconduct coverups that have happened in so many leadership-driven Evangelical churches.

When the world hears “evangelical” they think of Jerry Jr and the last thing I want is for people to think I stand for the same things as him.

You think Evangelicals are White Supremists ?
Name me 1 Religous grouping that doesn’t have a couple of Sexual Misconduct Cover UPS?

[Purple Haize]

Evangelicism is a lot like the Democratic Party:

There is overarching belief that is the big giant tent everyone fits under but once there, there’s a lot of different belief sets and arguments.

I’d rather build my own tent in both arenas.

Which is how you got modern Evangelicalism. When Mainline Churches became Country Clubs and cliquish new churches sprung up to reach out. Usually under a very Charismatic leader who wanted to build a big tent that would welcome people shunned and disaffected by the Mainline (including Baptist) Churches. You are on the path to becoming what you despise

[Jonathan Carone]

You think Evangelicals are White Supremists ?

I think some are, yes. All you have to do is look at some of the resolutions that have been set forth at denominational conventions. Or you could see some of the stuff that went around this past week with The Master’s Seminary and John MacArthur. I know full well the majority of evangelicals aren’t white supremecists, but there are enough under the tent to make outsiders associate the two and I want nothing to do with that.

Name me 1 Religous grouping that doesn’t have a couple of Sexual Misconduct Cover UPS?

Just because other religious groupings have done it doesn’t make me want to be associated with it any more. With the way Willow Creek, SBTS, and others have handled sexual misconduct this year, I don’t want to be anywhere near them.

The Gospel in and of itself is offensive enough. I don’t want the baggage of people who have pursued false idols to add more to it.

[Purple Haize]

You think Evangelicals are White Supremists ?

I think some are, yes. All you have to do is look at some of the resolutions that have been set forth at denominational conventions. Or you could see some of the stuff that went around this past week with The Master’s Seminary and John MacArthur. I know full well the majority of evangelicals aren’t white supremecists, but there are enough under the tent to make outsiders associate the two and I want nothing to do with that.

Name me 1 Religous grouping that doesn’t have a couple of Sexual Misconduct Cover UPS?

Just because other religious groupings have done it doesn’t make me want to be associated with it any more. With the way Willow Creek, SBTS, and others have handled sexual misconduct this year, I don’t want to be anywhere near them.

The Gospel in and of itself is offensive enough. I don’t want the baggage of people who have pursued false idols to add more to it.

“Some” people are always “something “. That’s so weak. Since the vast majority are not doesn’t matter to you. You just go ahead and label people like my parents possible white supremists because they are white and fervent Evangelicals who voted for Trump. I mean they may not be but SOME are so they COULD be.

If you don’t want to be associated with sexual indiscretions then why are you a Christian? Where do you draw the line ? Far far more people view Christians as hypocrites because of sex scandals than anything else. It’s a long list from the well known names to local youth pastors taking liberties with their group members.
Maybe, just maybe, it’s not rooted in Mainline Churches, Catholic Churches or Evangelical Churches. Maybe, just maybe it’s rooted in the Sinful nature of Man?

[JK37]

Reputation is what others think; character is who you really are. Put another way, reputation is who you are in the eyes of others, while your character is who you are in the eyes of the Lord. Character > reputation.

One can do a lot more good working toward change from within. Every group has its radicals, especially every religious or spiritual group.

As for the association with Trump, I put more stock in the policies of political leaders than anything else. Evangelicals - as well as the rest of the nation - were faced with a difficult decision in 2016 in our two-party system. For me, it broke down as follows:

1) I believe taking part in the democratic processes of our government is a responsibility of every citizen and a divine command.
2) Voting for a third party candidate would be irrelevant, a voiceless cop-out.
3) Of the two leading candidates, I voted for Donald Trump because his policies more closely aligned with my values than the policies of Hillary Clinton. And I still believe that’s true if I were faced with the same decision today.

If this is “association” in your book - or anyone else’s, so be it. My vote for him as President is not a sweeping endorsement of every act on his part. Nor does my alma mater’s leader’s outspoken defense of several of his policies and decisions affect my character one iota.

Reputation is what others think. I can’t control that.

[makarov97]

...

[Purple Haize]

“Gyrate like a wounded animal”

[jack_sparrow81]

It would be interesting to take a look at all the discussions involving the music issue during the football games on this forum over the past 15+ years. The progression of where we started to where we are now would be an eye opener for some. For me with the quality of Christian, uplifting, faith based (whatever you want to call it) music today, there is no reason why we are still playing the stuff we are. For a game experience from a fans standpoint, is there anything that we do differently at LU that’s not done at other schools?

[Purple Haize]

It would be interesting to take a look at all the discussions involving the music issue during the football games on this forum over the past 15+ years. The progression of where we started to where we are now would be an eye opener for some. For me with the quality of Christian, uplifting, faith based (whatever you want to call it) music today, there is no reason why we are still playing the stuff we are. For a game experience from a fans standpoint, is there anything that we do differently at LU that’s not done at other schools?

See my comment about Motown music. That was less than 20years ago

[Jonathan Carone]

“Some” people are always “something “. That’s so weak. Since the vast majority are not doesn’t matter to you. You just go ahead and label people like my parents possible white supremists because they are white and fervent Evangelicals who voted for Trump. I mean they may not be but SOME are so they COULD be.

In your quest to point out how I was wrong because I believed different than you, you didn’t even read what I was saying. I never once said all evangelicals were those things. I never even said most were. I said that because that is the reputation of evangelicals to the outside world, I don’t want to be associated with it.

It’s similar to Catholics distancing themselves from the Catholic Church empire because of the abuse going on within the church. The majority had nothing to do with that abuse but they distance themselves because they don’t want to be associated with something that is so very against their core beliefs.

The evangelical group has been taken over by the Jerry Jr’s, Paige Pattersons, and Bill Hybels of the world. I don’t want people thinking I have the same beliefs as those people. I’d rather be defined as someone who follows Jesus and tries to live my life under the direction of the Gospel than any overarching label.

[Jonathan Carone]

The reputation vs character is a great life lesson overall, but it’s flawed when it comes to this discussion.

My reputation to unbelievers is vital to my ability to share the Gospel with them in a way they will actually listen to. In fact, I’m much less concerned about my reputation amongst Christians as I am my reputation amongst unbelievers. That’s why I don’t want to be associated with the things I’ve already mentioned. To an unbelieving, skeptical world, those associations and that reputation stands opposite of what the Bible says.

[Purple Haize]

“Some” people are always “something “. That’s so weak. Since the vast majority are not doesn’t matter to you. You just go ahead and label people like my parents possible white supremists because they are white and fervent Evangelicals who voted for Trump. I mean they may not be but SOME are so they COULD be.

In your quest to point out how I was wrong because I believed different than you, you didn’t even read what I was saying. I never once said all evangelicals were those things. I never even said most were. I said that because that is the reputation of evangelicals to the outside world, I don’t want to be associated with it.

It’s similar to Catholics distancing themselves from the Catholic Church empire because of the abuse going on within the church. The majority had nothing to do with that abuse but they distance themselves because they don’t want to be associated with something that is so very against their core beliefs.

The evangelical group has been taken over by the Jerry Jr’s, Paige Pattersons, and Bill Hybels of the world. I don’t want people thinking I have the same beliefs as those people. I’d rather be defined as someone who follows Jesus and tries to live my life under the direction of the Gospel than any overarching label.

Thus the reason for “some”. Even used “”. Also capitalized it later. I knew precisely what you are saying and used the term in the way you used them
The Christian Church as a whole, Catholic, Baptist, Non Denom, Lutheran all of them have history of sexual misconduct. Every single one of them. If you want to ‘distance yourself’ from such perceptions you are going to have to distance yourself from Christianity.
You are very caught up in perceptions. JK addressed that. But if you are worried about how everything is going to be perceived you are going to do nothing or become so contorted you won’t be able to find which way is up. I say that only as someone who has been there and seen it. Conversely you could go JR’s route, which I am not a fan of either, and do what you want and justify it later. At the end of the day however, these two approaches are exactly the same.
It’s not the labels. It’s the Sin Nature.

[Purple Haize]

The reputation vs character is a great life lesson overall, but it’s flawed when it comes to this discussion.

My reputation to unbelievers is vital to my ability to share the Gospel with them in a way they will actually listen to. In fact, I’m much less concerned about my reputation amongst Christians as I am my reputation amongst unbelievers. That’s why I don’t want to be associated with the things I’ve already mentioned. To an unbelieving, skeptical world, those associations and that reputation stands opposite of what the Bible says.

What Church do you associate with?

[Jonathan Carone]

It would be interesting to take a look at all the discussions involving the music issue during the football games on this forum over the past 15+ years. The progression of where we started to where we are now would be an eye opener for some. For me with the quality of Christian, uplifting, faith based (whatever you want to call it) music today, there is no reason why we are still playing the stuff we are. For a game experience from a fans standpoint, is there anything that we do differently at LU that’s not done at other schools?

90% of Christian music is terrible. I’m totally okay with using secular music, but not when it’s lyrics that promote drugs or violence.

[Jonathan Carone]

The reputation vs character is a great life lesson overall, but it’s flawed when it comes to this discussion.

My reputation to unbelievers is vital to my ability to share the Gospel with them in a way they will actually listen to. In fact, I’m much less concerned about my reputation amongst Christians as I am my reputation amongst unbelievers. That’s why I don’t want to be associated with the things I’ve already mentioned. To an unbelieving, skeptical world, those associations and that reputation stands opposite of what the Bible says.

What Church do you associate with?

I have a local church I go to that is non-denominational. It emphasizes the Gospel for everyone, champions diversity, serves the poor and disabled, and has Jesus at the center of everything it does.

[Purple Haize]

The reputation vs character is a great life lesson overall, but it’s flawed when it comes to this discussion.

My reputation to unbelievers is vital to my ability to share the Gospel with them in a way they will actually listen to. In fact, I’m much less concerned about my reputation amongst Christians as I am my reputation amongst unbelievers. That’s why I don’t want to be associated with the things I’ve already mentioned. To an unbelieving, skeptical world, those associations and that reputation stands opposite of what the Bible says.

What Church do you associate with?

I have a local church I go to that is non-denominational. It emphasizes the Gospel for everyone, champions diversity, serves the poor and disabled, and has Jesus at the center of everything it does.

Willow Creek is Non Denominational
Serves the poor and disabled as well.
Champions diversity and even has women on the Pastoral Staff

Sovereign Grace Ministries

High Point Church has some sexual shenanigans going on. They’re non Denominational too.

You obviously belong to a group of people who are ok with sexual misconduct. Because you associate with them. No church discipline. Ripe for someone to take over. Easy to bury allegations. Those are my negative perceptions of non Denominational Churches. Also the perception of non churched people. What do they think when a local church member is found to have embezzled money? Had sex with the secretary? Plus if your Church isn’t Baptist it’s obviously Evangelical. They feed the hungry but they could do so much more....

[alabama24]

you could see some of the stuff that went around this past week with The Master’s Seminary and John MacArthur.

I tried to google to see what you are referring to, but struck out. Care to enlighten?