[Purple Haize]

20 year old men in particular should also be able to go to a football game on a Christian University campus and not have girls in skintight tank tops and booty shorts twerking to hip hop music in front of them and on the video screen.

There’s another piece of this I want to tackle specifically, and that’s the idea of the twerk and generational differences.

When I was in school, we were asked not to say the word “suck.” To our generation, “you suck” just meant you weren’t any good. We’d grown up around it. But to the older generation, “you suck” meant you performed oral sex and that heinous act is something you should be ashamed of. That meaning never even crossed our minds as we said it.

Likewise, to a 35-year-old who came of age when twerking was a dance move to symbolize sex, a girl dancing in that way is inately sexual.

The difference is, to a 19-year-old, she learned to twerk when she was seven years old. It’s always just been a dance to her. It lost its original meaning because it never meant that in the first place.

So what you saw as sexual was never sexual to her. She was dancing with her friends and entertaining each other, not trying to make the old men in the stadium think sexual things about her.

That’s a fine explanation and an accurate one.
However, they need to understand what they are doing means different things to different people So while her lady friends of the same age may think one thing her non lady friends may be thinking something different. Armed with that knowledge they can alter their behavior or understand why others behavior changes when they engage in such actions

[Jonathan Carone]

Or maybe the video board operators should understand that some things students do may offend the Baptists and not put it on camera. Let the kids be kids and have fun in their context instead of making them change what they do for the people who may be offended by it.

[spencers777]

Maybe show replays instead. Just a thought.

[SumItUp]

Maybe show replays instead. Just a thought.

Brilliant

[ballcoach15]

Students are shown too much. Maybe once a quarter. But no need to show them after every play.

[Purple Haize]

Or maybe the video board operators should understand that some things students do may offend the Baptists and not put it on camera. Let the kids be kids and have fun in their context instead of making them change what they do for the people who may be offended by it.

So if it’s not shown on the Video Board it didn’t happen

But showing replays isn’t a bad idea.

[flamehunter]

Maybe show replays instead. Just a thought.

Brilliant

[flamehunter]

So a question to John and others ok with the way the girls dress. Does 1 Corinthians 8:13 not apply to young ladies simply because they are dressing to impress their friends and not attract the attention of men?

[Yacht Rock]

I have a teenage daughter and she is more modest and honestly more prudish about things than my wife and I are, lol, so it's not something I've had to worry about yet.

But I will say that a good lesson for everyone is that none of our actions exist in a bubble. We all need to consider how people around us will respond to our actions. That can include what we say, what we wear, and anything else really.

Theoretically, people should be able to do a lot of things without worrying about how other people are going to respond. That could include attracting people in the wrong way or putting people off for the wrong reasons. That's theoretically though. We all know that the world doesn't necessarily work that way.

Sometimes even if the motives behind your actions are pure, your actions may have the same consequences as someone who behaves the same way with impure motives.

[Sly Fox]

Back to the original OP, I do not think it is a stretch for anyone under the employ of the university to be expected to dress in a way that is appropriate for the university. That is a separate discussion from how students in the stands dress to impress.

By the way, BYD, welcome to the club. Membership has the privilege of never having to justify your opinions. We're old and cranky and proud of it.

[Jonathan Carone]

So a question to John and others ok with the way the girls dress. Does 1 Corinthians 8:13 not apply to young ladies simply because they are dressing to impress their friends and not attract the attention of men?

I think using this verse alone can be slippery. What if someone has a thing for feet? Should she never wear sandals? Some guys like shoulders. Should she never wear tank tops? This is why the Muslim comparison can be accurate because there’s no way for a woman to dress that adequately takes away all chances of a man having impure thoughts about her.

As a man, I’m much more apt to tell men to have personal responsibility in controlling their thoughts and being transformed by the Spirit than telling women what they can and cannot wear. Not everything is sexual, and for too long we’ve been okay sexualizing things that shouldn’t be.

[Jonathan Carone]

Also - I’ve never been in favor of a dress code of what you can’t wear based solely on sexuality. If the school wants to uphold a professionalism within the classroom, I can understand a dress code for that. However, personal modesty and discipleship is not the responsibility of the rule book. It’s the responsibility of the spiritual institution and the discipler. For too many years we (the Church) put up rules to keep people from doing things as opposed to doing the harder, more beneficial thing I’d personally teaching the why behind the rules.

[FLAMEfromBAMA]

Definitely against that music personally. Makes me irritated for sure.

[ALAFlamesFan]

Or maybe the video board operators should understand that some things students do may offend the Baptists and not put it on camera. Let the kids be kids and have fun in their context instead of making them change what they do for the people who may be offended by it.

First, I am behind everything SJ is saying on this thread.

Second, (only slightly tongue in cheek) I think to be offended you actually have to show up to the games. The most offensive thing I saw via the video stream was an embarrassingly empty "Baptist" side.

Third, does anyone else have enough distance from LU to see how offensive this whole discussion sounds to outsiders given our political support? I was with at a friend's to watch some of the Bama game during the 2nd half and started talking about our game, team, environment, etc. These were good, moral, solid church going christian people. They live out their faith everyday. All they could talk about was how we (LU and by extension all of us who are affiliated) were all nutcases who supported racist, sexist politics. They were respectful but more anti-LU than most non-christians I know. Blaming women for men not taking captive their thoughts and keeping them in line is not helpful. Somehow I can work on secular campuses all over the SEC and see women in these types of outfits without ever thinking anything close to "I can grab them by the p****y"
Let the kids have fun and enjoy themselves. As long as they are keeping their shirts on, I say let it go. Clothing styles will always offend the generation one or two older then them. I fit in that category now and somethings we just need to lighten up on imo.
We have a huge new platform to spread the mission and message. Let's represent Christ in such a way that we welcome the wayward and least to the banquet table instead of putting out figurative or literal signs that say "Your kind is not welcome here".

Accountability without relationship feels like judgement. Accountability within relationship is love.

[thepostman]

Exhibit A as to why anytime men get involved in discussing modesty of women the conversation gets messy. This one is no different.

On a side note, I must he getting really old because i couldn't understand any of the lyrics. Haha

[R i]

Before you question the intent and values of some of these women, I’d suggest having actual conversations with them about the subject and listen to what they’re saying with the intent to understand them, not refute them. Those conversations are what changed my opinion on this.

I find it inappropriate to discuss sexual dress with a college aged female at my age.

[Purple Haize]

Or maybe the video board operators should understand that some things students do may offend the Baptists and not put it on camera. Let the kids be kids and have fun in their context instead of making them change what they do for the people who may be offended by it.

First, I am behind everything SJ is saying on this thread.

Second, (only slightly tongue in cheek) I think to be offended you actually have to show up to the games. The most offensive thing I saw via the video stream was an embarrassingly empty "Baptist" side.

Third, does anyone else have enough distance from LU to see how offensive this whole discussion sounds to outsiders given our political support? I was with at a friend's to watch some of the Bama game during the 2nd half and started talking about our game, team, environment, etc. These were good, moral, solid church going christian people. They live out their faith everyday. All they could talk about was how we (LU and by extension all of us who are affiliated) were all nutcases who supported racist, sexist politics. They were respectful but more anti-LU than most non-christians I know. Blaming women for men not taking captive their thoughts and keeping them in line is not helpful. Somehow I can work on secular campuses all over the SEC and see women in these types of outfits without ever thinking anything close to "I can grab them by the p****y"
Let the kids have fun and enjoy themselves. As long as they are keeping their shirts on, I say let it go. Clothing styles will always offend the generation one or two older then them. I fit in that category now and somethings we just need to lighten up on imo.
We have a huge new platform to spread the mission and message. Let's represent Christ in such a way that we welcome the wayward and least to the banquet table instead of putting out figurative or literal signs that say "Your kind is not welcome here".

Accountability without relationship feels like judgement. Accountability within relationship is love.

Possibly the most over used and misquoted phrase since ‘Luke, I’m your father”

[JK37]

Against the music. Didn’t hear it, but the lyrics are entirely inappropiate.

On the flip side, I bought they found ways to play secular sound clips last night that were fine. Only “turn down for what” made me cringe, because I’ve seen the music video. Anyway, loving the new sound system.

Video board was good once they lowered the brightness.

As for what women wear, there are some universally sexual areas that should be avoided. Too many young women thsese days just don’t know any better. Shame on their mothers and ESPECIALLY their FATHERS! God created humans to interact and support one another. So nothing we do - good or bad - happens in a vacuum. Therefore, we have a responsibility to understand how what we do affects others. Wearing something to impress anyone is a flimsy argument, and I’ve heard it before. Some booty-short-wearing women are trying to impress their friends, but the trend started somewhere up that chain. The one they’re trying to impress likely started it for a different reason. I’m not buying.

Sly is spot-on about university personnel, and I noticed it yesterday myself. Not just immodest but tons of unprofessional attire permitted to be worn by game operations personnel. Such a terrible, poor look for FBS.

[Jonathan Carone]

I missed the statement earlier about university personnel. I can get behind not being okay with unprofessional clothing from them.

[thepostman]

Yeah, it seemed uniform standards for university personnel were all over the place which was really odd.

[HenryGale]

We can always go back to LU games of past...

https://twitter.com/LibertyU/status/1035219760462655489

[Purple Haize]

We can always go back to LU games of past...

https://twitter.com/LibertyU/status/1035219760462655489

The guy on Jerry’s Left looks familiar

[thepostman]

I'm not sure it is wise to base your understanding on evangelical Christianity on what a few guys on a message board say.

[Curtisc83]

So last night was awesome. On so many levels it was amazing. But I also had the most significant “oh my goodness I’m old” moment of my life. And I legitimately am interested in what other people think on the topic. Hear me out.

First of all, I don’t really listen to “Christian music” at this point in life. I have no problem with secular music of all genres, and consume some secular hip hop with what we would consider profane lyrics. So I’ve been cool with the stuff being played for a while, but...

At halftime last night when I heard a Future song called “Mask Off”, they had officially gone over the cliff for me. For those unfamiliar, the chorus lyrics are...

“Percocets
Molly, Percocets
Percocets
Molly, Percocets
Rep the set
Gotta rep the set
Chase a check
Never chase a b***h
Mask on
F*** it, mask off
Mask on
F*** it, mask off
Percocets
Molly, Percocets
Chase a check
Never chase a b***h”

To me, that’s too much. I spend a good chunk of my time dealing with dead or dying people who have OD’d on opioids. I also have spent a fair bit of my career dealing with gang violence and it’s effects. I can’t imagine that anyone thought anything about it when they played it other than “this beat is sick”. So it needs to be pointed out to the important people that read this. There is no place for that trash at Liberty University. Or there shouldn’t be. At any university honestly.

My second issue, and I fully realize that this one is probably a losing battle, is the attire situation. It’s also been creeping in this direction for a while, but was (at least to me) obviously different than even just a couple of years ago. You can’t control what 6k kids wear to a football game, I get it. However, when you have girls who are working for the university (parking lots) wearing literal bootie shorts, it also seems like a bit much for what we claim to be about. The students are college kids, and I remember being one. Again, I get it. But the prevalence of girls in clothes that legitimately have to be a stumbling block for a majority of the young and old men in attendance is no bueno.

When I first visited Liberty, as a non-believing high school senior, (yes a long time ago) I remember two things most. That everyone was very polite, and that my parents didn’t stop talking about how nicely everyone dressed compared to Arizona State. Yesterday, other than the lack of alcohol and over the top profanities, I felt like I could have been at Sun Devil Stadium. In many ways that’s awesome, in a few it isn’t.

Maybe as a newer father I’ve finally crossed over into full on old guy. But these two things really make me sad, because for the first time, while I was so proud of what was going on on the field, it kind of didn’t feel like my school.

Feel free to roast me for being a geezer now.

Who cares. Music doesn’t make someone bad or good just like smoking or drinking. If someone is going to do something horrible that’s a them issue.

[ballcoach15]

I just realized I am probably one of the few who was at Liberty's very first football game and at last night's game.