[jack_sparrow81]

I'm still trying to figure out how Auburn lost to Tennessee, especially after watching what Bama did to the Vols in the 1st quarter yesterday (28-0). Didnt Auburn almost lose to a FCS school a couple of years ago? Might have been Jax St.

Edit looked it up- Auburn was ranked #6 and had to come back against Jax State to send the game into OT

[Jonathan Carone]

If you can’t ride the wave and enjoy these wins despite your negativity, that’s when you have gone too far.

Pride can’t let some cheer for this team and celebrate big wins.

I know you won’t actually step back and try to understand things, but I’ll explain it anyway.

Within the past five years, we have seen three fluke postseason runs lead to contract extensions that elongated the reign of coaches the majority of fans didn’t think could get us to where we felt we could be. In all three situations, the postseason runs were followed up by multiple years of woefully disappointing seasons where we couldn’t make a coaching change because of the contract extensions.

Unlike the other two, Gill is putting together a second run that could lead to another extension. While on one hand it’s exciting to see us exceed expectations, there’s also the memory of what’s come before. I’ve asked many people “would you sacrifice three bad to mediocre seasons for one great season” and the results are varied. If you answer that question yes then this season feels incredible. If you answer that question no then you are viewing these results with apprehension.

Personally - I don’t believe Turner Gill can get us to where we want to be. It’s nothing personal or character related. I simply don’t think he’s the level of coach that can take us to being where App State currently is. While I’m happy seeing us overachieve, I think what is best for the program long term is a change in leadership. Because of those beliefs, it’s very conflicting internally watching the success we are having.

[cruzan_flame13]

If you can’t ride the wave and enjoy these wins despite your negativity, that’s when you have gone too far.

Pride can’t let some cheer for this team and celebrate big wins.

I know you won’t actually step back and try to understand things, but I’ll explain it anyway.

Within the past five years, we have seen three fluke postseason runs lead to contract extensions that elongated the reign of coaches the majority of fans didn’t think could get us to where we felt we could be. In all three situations, the postseason runs were followed up by multiple years of woefully disappointing seasons where we couldn’t make a coaching change because of the contract extensions.

Unlike the other two, Gill is putting together a second run that could lead to another extension. While on one hand it’s exciting to see us exceed expectations, there’s also the memory of what’s come before. I’ve asked many people “would you sacrifice three bad to mediocre seasons for one great season” and the results are varied. If you answer that question yes then this season feels incredible. If you answer that question no then you are viewing these results with apprehension.

Personally - I don’t believe Turner Gill can get us to where we want to be. It’s nothing personal or character related. I simply don’t think he’s the level of coach that can take us to being where App State currently is. While I’m happy seeing us overachieve, I think what is best for the program long term is a change in leadership. Because of those beliefs, it’s very conflicting internally watching the success we are having.

Bingo.

[TH Spangler]

If LU beats Auburn I’ll join the Flames Club at the 1k Level next year

Do you believe in miracles? I took a screenshot of this just in case.

I don’t even know what I get with that level of membership but I’ll let you join me one game

I know it well get you a seat out of rain next year when we play Syracuse

[TH Spangler]

If you can’t ride the wave and enjoy these wins despite your negativity, that’s when you have gone too far.

Pride can’t let some cheer for this team and celebrate big wins.

I know you won’t actually step back and try to understand things, but I’ll explain it anyway.

Within the past five years, we have seen three fluke postseason runs lead to contract extensions that elongated the reign of coaches the majority of fans didn’t think could get us to where we felt we could be. In all three situations, the postseason runs were followed up by multiple years of woefully disappointing seasons where we couldn’t make a coaching change because of the contract extensions.

Unlike the other two, Gill is putting together a second run that could lead to another extension. While on one hand it’s exciting to see us exceed expectations, there’s also the memory of what’s come before. I’ve asked many people “would you sacrifice three bad to mediocre seasons for one great season” and the results are varied. If you answer that question yes then this season feels incredible. If you answer that question no then you are viewing these results with apprehension.

Personally - I don’t believe Turner Gill can get us to where we want to be. It’s nothing personal or character related. I simply don’t think he’s the level of coach that can take us to being where App State currently is. While I’m happy seeing us overachieve, I think what is best for the program long term is a change in leadership. Because of those beliefs, it’s very conflicting internally watching the success we are having.

In the real world every team / coach has good followed not so good seasons. In college football it has to do with recruiting cycles. In the NFL it's by design, via drafting order. There's only one Belichick in the NFL and there's only one school that doesn't worry about recruiting, ALabama

Gill treats everyone involved with NCAA football with respect and they respect him in return, especially his players. I like his style, he's not all in your face everytime something goes wrong, unlike many coaches. Example of this is the punting woes two weeks ago. When ask in the presser if he was going to jerk his punter he said no, he was going to work with him and correct a couple mechanical errors. The next week, 5 punts, average 45.2 yds. Nearly every D-1 opposing coach has a history with Gill, and they all salute him on and off the field. If he avoids a losing season in our transition year that will be amazing.

[thepostman]

He is certainly on his way to earning that extension.

[ballcoach15]

He must fix defensive woes. As I posted a couple weeks ago, we have FBS offense and high school defense.

[Class of 20Something]

He must fix defensive woes. As I posted a couple weeks ago, we have FBS offense and high school defense.

I couldn't agree more.

[R i]

Gill's body of work as head coach is not done, why are you sticking to your guns so hard that he's not the guy. Enjoy this season without the negative lens.

I have in the past stated that I would like a coaching change, but once Ian/Jerry made the decision to stick with Gill, he's our guy and I give him every opportunity in the world to be our guy because I have nothing to lose if he proves me wrong.

Makes little sense to make a judgment about him leading the program forward and then clinging to that with a life or death mentality. He is winning ball games, he has had more success in a transition year than the majority of head coaches in the history of college football. Like I have said before, we could win the national title and some on here would stick to their pre determined conclusions and find something to complain about.

Let it go, Let it go

[Jonathan Carone]

You are correct in that his body of work as a head coach isn’t complete. At the same time, I have the entirety of his past body of work to say he’s an average coach who will occasionally catch lightning in a bottle and have a year of success. He did it once at Buffalo and has done it once here. Every other year of his coaching career has been right around average. It’s going to take more than one season to make me think he’s developed as a coach and is anything different than he has been his entire career.

I’m happy we are having a good transition year. But at this point, I’m not hopeful this will be a sign of things to come. I’ve gotten my hopes up with him twice before only to have them come shattering down. I’d rather be wrong and pleasantly surprised than wrong and disappointed at this point.

[Jonathan Carone]

I’m willing to trade a 5 year extension and all of the horrific in game decisions that will come with it for an Ian McCaw hires Defensive Coordinator at this point.

If you're not going to trust the coach to hire his staff, how can you trust him to lead the program?

[thepostman]

Gill's body of work as head coach is not done, why are you sticking to your guns so hard that he's not the guy. Enjoy this season without the negative lens.

I have in the past stated that I would like a coaching change, but once Ian/Jerry made the decision to stick with Gill, he's our guy and I give him every opportunity in the world to be our guy because I have nothing to lose if he proves me wrong.

Makes little sense to make a judgment about him leading the program forward and then clinging to that with a life or death mentality. He is winning ball games, he has had more success in a transition year than the majority of head coaches in the history of college football. Like I have said before, we could win the national title and some on here would stick to their pre determined conclusions and find something to complain about.

Let it go, Let it go

I just feel like you are misunderstanding my viewpoint. If you want to see true negativity go head to any major college football message board. What myself and others say on this board isnt negative just simply opinions.

I admit that I never imagined 4-3 was a possibility. I am happy for our program and was especially excited after the Troy win. just ask my wife, who rolls her eyes as I yell and celebrate at the TV. Haha

[Jonathan Carone]

In the real world every team / coach has good followed not so good seasons. In college football it has to do with recruiting cycles. In the NFL it's by design, via drafting order. There's only one Belichick in the NFL and there's only one school that doesn't worry about recruiting, ALabama

I think this is a fair viewpoint so I wanted to touch on it as well and explain why, even though it's fair, I disagree with it.

I agree completely that teams will have down years with recruiting cycles. I get that. I don't expect that we will win every single game every single year.

I do, however, expect us to compete every week and to not consistently lose to lesser teams. I also expect better than average. And I expect for us to build on momentum. We followed up a playoff run with a 6-5 season while having a four-year starter at quarterback. And then we stayed there for three years. So which of those three years were the rebuilding year? Why did we not build on the playoff run? What evidence is there for me to think we will build upon the success we've had this year and not regress back to the mean over the life of Gill's extension until he's up for another one?

This entire thread is about expectations. We have exceeded my expectations for this year. This year has proven we can get the talent needed to compete with our schedules moving forward. Because of that, my expectations in the years to come are for us is to be a program that can have the yearly success that schools like Troy (8-4 average from 2015-2017), App (10-3 average from 2015-2017), and Marshall (7-5 average from 2015-2017, seasons of 8 and 10 wins with one down year) have had. I know it takes some time to get to that level consistently, but if we're going to be an FBS school, that should be our goal.

Do you believe the current coaching staff can have that level of success? If so, what gives you that hope? I'm willing to listen and be proven wrong.

[FlamesHighontheTide]

Great post Jonathan and great question to ask.

I have made it clear on here my support of Gill as a Christian man and how thankful I am he is leading our team. I have also at times been blinded by that just because I want him to succeed due to his love for Jesus. I think Gill can recruit us to a level where we could have 8 to 10 win seasons in FBS. Like Jonathan has said, getting talent to the Burg is not a problem, yet I do think Gill has brought in overall better talent than any of the former coaches. The question is, can he develop and coach that talent to 8 to 10 wins every season? As much as I want him to be that guy for us, I don't know if him + this current staff could establish that kind of program year in and year out. I do however think that he could lead us to 6 to 8 wins every year which gets a bowl eligible year in and year out. Which is not a bad thing nor is it a bad expectation. BUT, are we only okay with bowl eligibility or do we want to pursue more???

Last thing, I promise. When we get bowl eligible this year and next year with Gill leading the helm before he is potentially let go after 2019. I just want to say, what a start to FBS and what a ride Gill gave us with the most high profile wins in LU football history! Playoffs, Playoff win and bowl games! Thankful for how he has led this program and helped us transition successfully into FBS.

[flameshaw]

Great post Jonathan and great question to ask.

I have made it clear on here my support of Gill as a Christian man and how thankful I am he is leading our team. I have also at times been blinded by that just because I want him to succeed due to his love for Jesus. I think Gill can recruit us to a level where we could have 8 to 10 win seasons in FBS. Like Jonathan has said, getting talent to the Burg is not a problem, yet I do think Gill has brought in overall better talent than any of the former coaches. The question is, can he develop and coach that talent to 8 to 10 wins every season? As much as I want him to be that guy for us, I don't know if him + this current staff could establish that kind of program year in and year out. I do however think that he could lead us to 6 to 8 wins every year which gets a bowl eligible year in and year out. Which is not a bad thing nor is it a bad expectation. BUT, are we only okay with bowl eligibility or do we want to pursue more???

Last thing, I promise. When we get bowl eligible this year and next year with Gill leading the helm before he is potentially let go after 2019. I just want to say, what a start to FBS and what a ride Gill gave us with the most high profile wins in LU football history! Playoffs, Playoff win and bowl games! Thankful for how he has led this program and helped us transition successfully into FBS.

1. The last few years he hasn't been able to get us to 8-10 wins in FCS.
2. Might want to do some research on that. Morgan Hout coached and or recruited the best talent we have ever had on the mountain. Look at NFL drafts, Pro Bowl selections, etc. Sam R was probably the second best.
3. Agree 100%...................... time to move on though. His overall body of work as a HC is a solid C- minus.

[TH Spangler]

Do you believe the current coaching staff can have that level of success? If so, what gives you that hope? I'm willing to listen and be proven wrong.

Yes, one word, recruiting. I think this staff is uniquely qualified to recruit the best players that fit the program and our mission. If we can't do that I really don't care how many games we win. Would be a waste of time and money.

[ballcoach15]

As for defense, I recall several years ago, Clemson gave up 70 points to West Virginia in a bowl game. Dabo made a change at DC. Clemson is now the 2nd best program in the country. (Roll Tide)

[tyndal23]

2018 expectations - personnel - our O Line and skill positions gave us a chance to win games, our D was a big question mark. Our D Line has started well and improving each week. LB - we are thin and lost a starter right before game 1. Secondary 2-3 playmakers with no depth. In short our D has had 2 complete games where they played all 4 Quarters. We are very good when teams don’t spread us out - then we have issues on 2nd and 3rd level especially against accurate QB’s. This D has given up some ugly numbers BUT they have also made big plays. We are developing some real play makers on the D Line. We have 1 loss directly attributable to our D and that is NMSU. Our Offense gets full blame for Army, N Texas ( yes our D didn’t come out 2nd half but played well enough for us to have a 1st half lead if our O hadn’t stopped itself ). ISU game - ugly but plenty of big plays and turnovers - I will wait until end of season before weighing in on Wimbo. That Troy game may have been the best D performance in history of LU - so he gets a lot of credit I think with the talent level ( we are missing 3 guys on this D and it would be dramatically better ) and I would like to see him stay on and coach a full FBS roster next year or 2. ( people forget the attrition we have had on D last 2-3 years especially in our secondary )

[Jonathan Carone]

I have made it clear on here my support of Gill as a Christian man and how thankful I am he is leading our team. I have also at times been blinded by that just because I want him to succeed due to his love for Jesus.

I am thankful that Gill and this staff represent our values so well. That's why I've tried to make a concerted effort to keep all of my critiques about their job performance, not who they are as men. They have definitely set the standard for what we should expect in terms of Christian men leading the team.

I think Gill can recruit us to a level where we could have 8 to 10 win seasons in FBS. Like Jonathan has said, getting talent to the Burg is not a problem, yet I do think Gill has brought in overall better talent than any of the former coaches.

As has been stated above, there have been a lot of coaches who have gotten some really great players to Liberty. I imagine what Hout, Rutigliano, and Rocco could've done given the facilities we currently have, the full cost of attendance we offer, and the FBS level of play. Gill has brought in more cumulative talent than any other coach, but he's also had significantly better resources.

The question is, can he develop and coach that talent to 8 to 10 wins every season? As much as I want him to be that guy for us, I don't know if him + this current staff could establish that kind of program year in and year out.

This, along with his in-game decisions, are his two biggest issues. We haven't seen the growth needed in certain positions to have the success we want to have.

I do however think that he could lead us to 6 to 8 wins every year which gets a bowl eligible year in and year out. Which is not a bad thing nor is it a bad expectation. BUT, are we only okay with bowl eligibility or do we want to pursue more???

This is the biggest question to answer:

What should our expectations be?

I'm of the belief that if we are going to invest the money we invest into football, we should expect a great return on the investment. On top of that, we are a school that says "if it's Christian it ought to be better." That's why I have the expectation to be what App State, Troy, and Marshall have been in recent year. I know it'll take time to get there, but that should be the goal.

If, however, the goal is to put together a team who's character we can be proud of that doesn't embarrass us on the field and 5-7 to 7-5 is acceptable year in and year out, then this staff can absolutely do that.

[Jonathan Carone]

Do you believe the current coaching staff can have that level of success? If so, what gives you that hope? I'm willing to listen and be proven wrong.

Yes, one word, recruiting. I think this staff is uniquely qualified to recruit the best players that fit the program and our mission. If we can't do that I really don't care how many games we win. Would be a waste of time and money.

I totally understand the idea that if we can't put together a team the school can be proud of, we shouldn't be playing.

Here's my question:

What makes Turner Gill "uniquely qualified" to do that? And conversely, why are none of the other hundreds of Christian football coaches qualified to put together that team?

I'm not being facetious or sarcastic, I legitimately want to know what makes this staff different from other staffs.

[FlamesHighontheTide]

In the month of November Turner Gill is 16-5 at LU. We know that was all during FCS seasons and now that we are in FBS I hope that trend continues. All we have to do is go 2-2 in November and that puts us with the number of FBS wins we need for bowl eligibility. Not gonna lie, my hopes are really high for 7 wins and I am expecting that but would not be disappointed with 6-6 either. Many if not all college football previews predicted Libertys 11 year streak of not having a losing season would come to an end and I would LOVE for them to eat crow!

[TH Spangler]

Do you believe the current coaching staff can have that level of success? If so, what gives you that hope? I'm willing to listen and be proven wrong.

Yes, one word, recruiting. I think this staff is uniquely qualified to recruit the best players that fit the program and our mission. If we can't do that I really don't care how many games we win. Would be a waste of time and money.

I totally understand the idea that if we can't put together a team the school can be proud of, we shouldn't be playing.

Here's my question:

What makes Turner Gill "uniquely qualified" to do that? And conversely, why are none of the other hundreds of Christian football coaches qualified to put together that team?

I'm not being facetious or sarcastic, I legitimately want to know what makes this staff different from other staffs.

Troll on Super Jon

[ballah09]

So since you can't answer him. You call him a troll. Nice.

[ballah09]

I'll take a coach who won't consistently play down to his opponents and lose to teams that are inferior. You know the St. Francis, Norfolk State, Monmouth, Gardner-Webb's of the world.

[Jonathan Carone]

How is asking you to defend your position trolling?

I have laid out my opinion with trackable measures over and over again and invited criticism to it. I simply ask you to explain yours and I'm a troll?