Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

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By CCWMichael
Posts
#540193
This conversation is more suited for the BYU and Liberty type of schools.

I believe our brand recognition in football can provide great opportunity to mission to more families. So, is it more important to hire a practicing coach who will win but is not fiery with Scripture or hire a coach who will not produce results but profess faith at every turn?

I will disclose i want to win, not at any cost, but win with class.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#540203
I think it’s possible to be a winning football coach and be strong in your faith. We absolutely cannot sell out the values of our school but we also cannot settle for mediocrity in the field. If it’s Christian it ought to be better, right?

What’s important for us as fans is to be able to separate job performance and who the person is. When we call our coaches bums or flippantly say they should be fired before they get on the plane to come home, we are representing our school just as poorly as their coaching did. If we expect our coaches to represent us well, we have to expect the same thing from ourselves.
By Dalegarz1
Posts
#540206
y Jonathan Carone » November 8th, 2017, 1:12 am
I think it’s possible to be a winning football coach and be strong in your faith. We absolutely cannot sell out the values of our school but we also cannot settle for mediocrity in the field. If it’s Christian it ought to be better, right?

What’s important for us as fans is to be able to separate job performance and who the person is. When we call our coaches bums or flippantly say they should be fired before they get on the plane to come home, we are representing our school just as poorly as their coaching did. If we expect our coaches to represent us well, we have to expect the same thing from ourselves.


Guilty as charged! When competitiveness interferes with Christianity, testimonies may suffer. If TG is dismissed, it should be done in a Godly manner. Excellence should be evident in all areas not just the w-l record. Thank you for your post JC!
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#540213
Jonathan Carone wrote:I think it’s possible to be a winning football coach and be strong in your faith. We absolutely cannot sell out the values of our school but we also cannot settle for mediocrity in the field. If it’s Christian it ought to be better, right?

What’s important for us as fans is to be able to separate job performance and who the person is. When we call our coaches bums or flippantly say they should be fired before they get on the plane to come home, we are representing our school just as poorly as their coaching did. If we expect our coaches to represent us well, we have to expect the same thing from ourselves.
I think this is a seriously over looked aspect of ‘The Mission’. LU fans want someone who is not your ‘Normal’ foodtball coach yet want to treat them that way. LU fans aren’t as bad as SEC fans and they shouldn’t be like Mennonites on Good Friday either. But are LU fans following ‘If it’s Christian it ought to be better’ mantra as fans they like to throw out as coaches? Do LU fans see the wonderful support and facilities (sans nachos) THEY are provided?
It’s a two way street or at least should be. Great point Jon. Thank you for bringing it up
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#540216
I think it's only fair for me to mention I've blown it on this aspect multiple times. When it came to Toman, I went way over the top and made it personal, especially in the early years. For Gill, I said some things I regret saying that were rooted in pure emotion. Finding the balance between being a fan and wanting what's best for the program vs handling it in a way that is representative of what we believe is extremely hard. I have to constantly remind myself that if I'm going to hold our leadership (Jerry specifically) to a higher standard because of our mission and faith, I have to hold myself to that same standard.
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#540220
Purple Haize wrote: Do LU fans see the wonderful support and facilities (sans nachos) THEY are provided?
:frustrated :rofl
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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#540221
Jonathan Carone wrote:I think it's only fair for me to mention I've blown it on this aspect multiple times. When it came to Toman, I went way over the top and made it personal, especially in the early years. For Gill, I said some things I regret saying that were rooted in pure emotion. Finding the balance between being a fan and wanting what's best for the program vs handling it in a way that is representative of what we believe is extremely hard. I have to constantly remind myself that if I'm going to hold our leadership (Jerry specifically) to a higher standard because of our mission and faith, I have to hold myself to that same standard.
Post of the year nomination.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#540222
Cider Jim wrote:
Purple Haize wrote: Do LU fans see the wonderful support and facilities (sans nachos) THEY are provided?
:frustrated :rofl
LU has needed a new Nacho Coordinator (NC) for several years
By flamehunter
Registration Days Posts
#540224
R i wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:I think it's only fair for me to mention I've blown it on this aspect multiple times. When it came to Toman, I went way over the top and made it personal, especially in the early years. For Gill, I said some things I regret saying that were rooted in pure emotion. Finding the balance between being a fan and wanting what's best for the program vs handling it in a way that is representative of what we believe is extremely hard. I have to constantly remind myself that if I'm going to hold our leadership (Jerry specifically) to a higher standard because of our mission and faith, I have to hold myself to that same standard.
Post of the year nomination.
I'll second that.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#540225
I am not sure the mission has ever changed since the founding of the University. First and most important is having a uniquely Christian sports program, second is excelling on and off the field/court, etc. We have had some coaches and especially some players that have not lived up to that mission, but that is not a mission problem/creep. It is a people problem. None of us are perfect, sometimes stuff happens. I believe we should be tougher on those who disgrace the mission/university, but am certainly not interested in regressing back to the 70's.
The hard part is balancing the uniqueness of the mission with the on-field performance. Sometimes the two don't mesh within one person or personality.
Since we are talking about football specifically, we have had a couple of coaches who excelled in both areas, many have not. I am of the opinion that is where we are today. TG is a great man, seems to be an excellent fit for the first half of the mission. However, the on-field performance has been sorely lacking. Yes, he has coached most of our biggest wins. In contrast, he has also coached almost all of our biggest losses.
To me, the best way to measure his on-field success is simply one metric. Are we better off as a program today than we were 6 years ago when he came to LU. I cannot imagine anyone clearly, realistically, thinking that we are.
Because of our move to FBS, I believe now is the time to make the inevitable decision to move in another direction. No need to waste any more time. Six years is long enough to see a trend and make a decision devoid of emotion.
There is/are coaches out there who can successfully execute both halves of our mission. I would say that if we could only fulfill the uniquely Christian part, let's stand pat and don't make a change. To me, this is the most important part. However, we are in a position to make a decision to fulfill the entire portion of the mission and should do so immediately after the season is over. In my mind, every year we wait, we lose two years on the other end. especially making the move to FBS. Recruiting is extremely critical right now and for the next couple of years.
Personally, I feel bad for TG. He is a good man, makes lots of money, seems to be a good role model, etc. However that is only half of the job. He has proven over 6 years that he cannot build our football program over where it was when he arrived.
I would be 100% for him being offered another position with the University, where he could thrive. I do not believe he would accept that offer, but that would be his choice. I do not see him being successful if he chooses to continue down the coaching path. In his 3 HC positions, he has not been successful thus far. He has had moments of tremendous achievement, but the whole body of work, has been lacking at every stop. Don't know of any other D1 schools that would be interested, based on his past.
It is not mean or even personal to part ways with someone. Sometimes the one being dismissed is even relieved. Bottom line, it is what is best for LU and its athletic program. Now is the time for change, hopefully the administration will move quickly after the season is over in an attempt to make a positive impact on the future of LU football. I for one, will be very disappointed if we don't.
Looking at our schedule before the season began, who here would have thought that TG deserved another year and had done a good job with 4 losses?
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By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#540229
Jonathan Carone wrote: If it’s Christian it ought to be better, right?
This has been quoted on Liberty mountain since I arrived in Lynchburg in the 80's. I'm sure it was around before my time. I'm struggling with the statement. Is it Biblical?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#540230
SumItUp wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote: If it’s Christian it ought to be better, right?
This has been quoted on Liberty mountain since I arrived in Lynchburg in the 80's. I'm sure it was around before my time. I'm struggling with the statement. Is it Biblical?
Jerry said it, so close enough
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By alabama24
Registration Days Posts
#540231
SumItUp wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote: If it’s Christian it ought to be better, right?
This has been quoted on Liberty mountain since I arrived in Lynchburg in the 80's. I'm sure it was around before my time. I'm struggling with the statement. Is it Biblical?
What do you mean, "is it biblical"? It doesn't come from the Bible, it came from Doc.
By Dalegarz1
Posts
#540235
"If it's Christian, it ought to be better, right"?

You have to begin any discussion of that statement with a definition of "better". Surely, it transcends wins and losses. Our testimony rings loudly in the manner in which we handle defeat as well as victory. On the other hand, a move to FBS and success on the field could lead to greater exposure for the values we hold dear. It can be a slippery slope (I know, I've taken that plunge more than once as a coach for 40 years). Perhaps you all have heard the line; "haste is an agent of the devil". In a previous post, I called for a mid-season coaching change. Thank you for this thread-it has helped me be honest with my motives.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#540237
In this case I see no reason to consider if it is biblical. We aren't really concerned about anything theologica or moral. It just seems to be a matter of reason or personal preference to me
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By Liberty22
Registration Days Posts
#540238
SumItUp wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote: If it’s Christian it ought to be better, right?
This has been quoted on Liberty mountain since I arrived in Lynchburg in the 80's. I'm sure it was around before my time. I'm struggling with the statement. Is it Biblical?
Directly no, but it is biblical. The Bible calls us to be salt and light. Salt makes things better, light makes things brighter so as Christians we are called to make things brighter and better.
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By LUOrange
Posts
#540241
Purple Haize wrote:
Cider Jim wrote:
Purple Haize wrote: Do LU fans see the wonderful support and facilities (sans nachos) THEY are provided?
:frustrated :rofl
LU has needed a new Nacho Coordinator (NC) for several years
They actually need to fire the concession people because they actually have the worst concessions around. I'm fat, so I'm an expert on this trust me. I mean, their popcorn is bland. How do you screw up popcorn?
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By CCWMichael
Posts
#540423
They actually need to fire the concession people because they actually have the worst concessions around. I'm fat, so I'm an expert on this trust me. I mean, their popcorn is bland. How do you screw up popcorn?

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