Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

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By Jonathan Carone
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#538960
Based on JK’s post in the AD thread, how do you answer these questions:

1. Why did this HC fail?
2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time?
3. Describe the next head coach we need.
4. What did this coach do right that we want to build upon?
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#539006
Jonathan Carone wrote:Based on JK’s post in the AD thread, how do you answer these questions:

1. Why did this HC fail?
2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time?
3. Describe the next head coach we need.
I'g going to add
4. What did this coach do right that we want to build upon?

1. Why did this HC fail?
Turner Gill failed to maintain and raise the floor, that is the worst the team could preform.

2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time?
Head Coaching experience at the FBS level does not a good coach make.

3. Describe the next head coach we need.
Football needs to be war for our next head coach. The next head coach needs to grab the opponent by the neck and not let go to get a better grip. Our defense has been so spectacularly bad that we need a defensive minded coach. We have the tools in place that a competent OC could utilize efficiently on day 1. The defense needs the most TLC. The next head coach needs to be capable of using a style of play that works even if it isn't their preference.

4. What did this coach do right that we can build upon?
Coach Gill has been the personification of the spiritual expectations of a Liberty head coach. Additionally, this off season the adjustment was made to allow contact in training camp. The effect was obvious in the first game of the season, the players were not afraid to hit.
By ballah09
Registration Days Posts
#539013
Jonathan Carone wrote:Based on JK’s post in the AD thread, how do you answer these questions:

1. Why did this HC fail?
2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time?
3. Describe the next head coach we need.
1. Can't make in game adjustments, can't develop players, can't prepare his team
2. Don't hire big name guys who've been failures. There is reasons why some of these guys have been let go...they produce mediocre results. Barber was blinded by name recognition. Hopefully this time we look for a young energetic motivated coach.
3. See number two. Young, motivated, energetic, coach.... AKA Streeter.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#539043
Jonathan Carone wrote:Based on JK’s post in the AD thread, how do you answer these questions:

1. Why did this HC fail?
2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time?
3. Describe the next head coach we need.
1. Did he fail? Has there been a more successful coach at LU? That's not saying he didn't leave meat on the bone with some victories because he did. But what was his bar to success? Taking LU to the Playoffs? Continuing to win BSC Titles? He did those things. This year started on an incredible high but quickly imploded
So the question becomes to me is: How much of it is an institutional problem? The last two coaches were not able to get LU to prominence on the National Stage despite having an embarrassment of riches compared to the competition. Is LU a place that sets Coaches up to fail?
2 and 3. Ill touch on later
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#539046
FormerFlameFan wrote:Fake football. Turner, we want you to bring two more coaches back to the Boardroom. Donald will fire you or one of them. Turner says but Mr Trump. I wasn't the head coach this week. You see like the show. Each week instead of a project manager we assign one of the assistants as head coach. This week I just carried the water. In fact for three seasons I haven't been the head coach. But the boys like my Gatorade. I think you should fire Jerry. Trump. Nah. He is too busy sucking up to me.
We played that last week
By FormerFlameFan
Posts
#539045
Fake football. Turner, we want you to bring two more coaches back to the Boardroom. Donald will fire you or one of them. Turner says but Mr Trump. I wasn't the head coach this week. You see like the show. Each week instead of a project manager we assign one of the assistants as head coach. This week I just carried the water. In fact for three seasons I haven't been the head coach. But the boys like my Gatorade. I think you should fire Jerry. Trump. Nah. He is too busy sucking up to me.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#539047
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:Based on JK’s post in the AD thread, how do you answer these questions:

1. Why did this HC fail?
2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time?
3. Describe the next head coach we need.
1. Did he fail? Has there been a more successful coach at LU? That's not saying he didn't leave meat on the bone with some victories because he did. But what was his bar to success? Taking LU to the Playoffs? Continuing to win BSC Titles? He did those things. This year started on an incredible high but quickly imploded
So the question becomes to me is: How much of it is an institutional problem? The last two coaches were not able to get LU to prominence on the National Stage despite having an embarrassment of riches compared to the competition. Is LU a place that sets Coaches up to fail?
2 and 3. Ill touch on later
EASILY the worst coach in the history of LU football with the slim exception of Ken Karcher. (I would hate to live off the difference). To deny that is just not having a grip on reality. Maybe it is Trumps fault?
Probably one of the best human beings we have had as a football coach. I would place him 3-4th on that list. We have had some outstanding men as head coaches.
No disrespect to anyone, I am just glad that none of us on here will have a say in who we hire.

Gill 4 life.
Last edited by flameshaw on October 21st, 2017, 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
By rtb72
Posts
#539052
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:Based on JK’s post in the AD thread, how do you answer these questions:

1. Why did this HC fail?
2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time?
3. Describe the next head coach we need.
1. Did he fail? Has there been a more successful coach at LU? That's not saying he didn't leave meat on the bone with some victories because he did. But what was his bar to success? Taking LU to the Playoffs? Continuing to win BSC Titles? He did those things. This year started on an incredible high but quickly imploded
So the question becomes to me is: How much of it is an institutional problem? The last two coaches were not able to get LU to prominence on the National Stage despite having an embarrassment of riches compared to the competition. Is LU a place that sets Coaches up to fail?
2 and 3. Ill touch on later
Just at a quick glance, I think the obvious question I would ask for comparison, is how has he succeeded. I mean really? Yes we shared some titles and won some games. We went to playoffs once. But this was not a rebuilding year. The year before last was not a rebuilding year. He had the talent and we did not have the results. Are we better off now than we were when he came? Based on the past three years...we are in reverse. We have the ingredients but can't bake the cake...that's on the baker. We are spoilers...nothing more...nothing less. Success is building a consistent program with long term implications. We are no closer to that than we were when he got here. We should have a vision for not just next year...but three, five years down the road. That in part, is why our Oline continues to stink, among other positions. We win some games, we share some titles...but in what context? BSC opponents? They are getting better (kstate, Monmouth) We ARE NOT. We are going FBS next year and we need a better coach...plain and simple. He has taken us as far as he can. He has some wins...but his overall record coupled with current trends speaks for itself; and the limitations are surfacing...quickly.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#539055
Jonathan Carone wrote:PH - in this thought experiment, failure = getting fired. You could rephrase the question as “what contributed to the causes that led to his release?”
That is a standard that could apply to LU's last 3 coaches. They all had uniquely different personalities and styles. None met with the amount of success that could stave off dismissal Karcher wasn't that difficult to divine. Rocco not much either. After this season, if Gill gets let go, it would be understandable. So that reverts to my question above. How much of it is Institutional when 3 very different people can't be 'successful '?
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#539057
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:PH - in this thought experiment, failure = getting fired. You could rephrase the question as “what contributed to the causes that led to his release?”
That is a standard that could apply to LU's last 3 coaches. They all had uniquely different personalities and styles. None met with the amount of success that could stave off dismissal Karcher wasn't that difficult to divine. Rocco not much either. After this season, if Gill gets let go, it would be understandable. So that reverts to my question above. How much of it is Institutional when 3 very different people can't be 'successful '?
Karcher wasn't good, period. Rocco was trained under Al Groh at UVA - neither him nor Groh-trained Al Golden did well in their first head coaching stints. Gill was successful with Rocco's players, but his own recruits haven't performed as expected.

Three different people does not translate to any of them are going to be successful anywhere.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#539058
ATrain wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:PH - in this thought experiment, failure = getting fired. You could rephrase the question as “what contributed to the causes that led to his release?”
That is a standard that could apply to LU's last 3 coaches. They all had uniquely different personalities and styles. None met with the amount of success that could stave off dismissal Karcher wasn't that difficult to divine. Rocco not much either. After this season, if Gill gets let go, it would be understandable. So that reverts to my question above. How much of it is Institutional when 3 very different people can't be 'successful '?
Karcher wasn't good, period. Rocco was trained under Al Groh at UVA - neither him nor Groh-trained Al Golden did well in their first head coaching stints. Gill was successful with Rocco's players, but his own recruits haven't performed as expected.

Three different people does not translate to any of them are going to be successful anywhere.
Agreed. But you have to look at any and all consistent factors if the end results are the same A coach can struggle at one place and flourish in another. But if that place keeps getting the same results no matter who they bring in than maybe it's them not who they bring in. (See University of Miami Football)
Maybe LU needs to look at itself in the mirror before they bring on someone new and ask what is happening on their end that is impeding progress.
By ballcoach15
Registration Days Posts
#539060
The Head Coach is responsible for the program, bur our Coordinators have me more worried than the HC.

No excuse allowing 50+ points to Mommouth.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#539061
Am I the only one who remembers what we ended up with the last time a search committee chose the new HC for a major program at Liberty?

If and when we hire a new football coach, I want Ian McCaw to be the one who makes the hire. Yes, we all know it will be subject to JLFJR's approval, but no committees, PLEASE!
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#539063
1. Why did this HC fail?
He was unable to diagnose and process the changes needed to be made both in terms of staff and schemes.

He was unable to properly motivate and prepare the team to play against inferior opponents.

2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time?

I’ve sat thinking about this and haven’t come to a great answer. It’s a great question that I want to keep thinking about.

3. Describe the next head coach we need.

I think someone with an outward passion and energy is going to be really important moving forward. Gill is the definition of stoic and it comes across as emotionless and disconnected. As we go through a period where we likely lose more than win, having someone with energy and excitement will be important for the team and fans.

4. What did this coach do right that we want to build upon?

He represented us great off the field and with the mission of our school. That was great to see.
By walksports
Posts
#539064
I would want somebody that comes across as authentic - and is.
Passion is stated above as a desired quality. That's James Franklin personified.
When Liberty made the FBS announcement, I watched the press conference on Facebook Live, and I was stunned in what I saw. Jerry and Ian were there in suits, but didn't come across as corporate, but authentic, knowledgeable, professional and up for the task at hand.
Gill came in his coaching gear (can't imagine that he was just told of the press conference at the last minute), used cliches and stock quotes and just didn't impress me at all.
LU needs - and deserves - somebody to get excited in - to lead - as much as the excitement of the Baylor win.
I'm just a LU Dad who wants to see the entire school do well in whatever it does because it accenuates what my daughter put into her education. Everytime I get the opportunity to say Liberty University and people look at me puzzled because they've never heard of it, I get a soft witness in saying, "It is the world's largest Christian university."
I want to see a believer and Christ follower with the passion of a James Franklin.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#539069
Jonathan Carone wrote:1. Why did this HC fail?
He was unable to diagnose and process the changes needed to be made both in terms of staff and schemes.

He was unable to properly motivate and prepare the team to play against inferior opponents.

2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time?

I’ve sat thinking about this and haven’t come to a great answer. It’s a great question that I want to keep thinking about.

3. Describe the next head coach we need.

I think someone with an outward passion and energy is going to be really important moving forward. Gill is the definition of stoic and it comes across as emotionless and disconnected. As we go through a period where we likely lose more than win, having someone with energy and excitement will be important for the team and fans.

4. What did this coach do right that we want to build upon?

He represented us great off the field and with the mission of our school. That was great to see.
Based on this I’m going to move my answer to #1 to my answer to #2 because I think it fits better.

So back to #1:
Maybe he was looking to leave as soon as he could, thus never buying in all the way. His flirtation with JMU is just what we know about.
Maybe he built up for the ‘big wins’ hoping to parlay that into the next opportunity that never came? He proved he can put it together to win a big game. He’s also proven he can continue the WTF Game Tradition.
Never found Coordinators he meshed with. Which might be because....
The team never had an identity. You know VT is going to play nasty D. You know GT is going to run the Option. Alabama is going to run a Pro Set. WVU is going to air it out and play crappy 3-5-3 Defense. What is LU’s calling card?
I’m OK with his stoicism, some coaches are just like that. Some win National Champs and Super Bowls like that. (I prefer a little more energy personally) But you can’t kill enthusiasm in your players. That may be the case here as I continue to reference the Baylor situation with Buck.
But he has brought in a lot of talent. (Just not on the O Line). LU currently has the best QB they’ve ever had and possibly their best receiver.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#539073
The answer to #2 might be that we know we have to have some type of identity. We always called ourselves “multiple” under Gill. We would change our offense and defense to try and out scheme the other team instead of saying “this is what we do. Try to stop it.”

We need to be known for something.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#539076
Jonathan Carone wrote:The answer to #2 might be that we know we have to have some type of identity. We always called ourselves “multiple” under Gill. We would change our offense and defense to try and out scheme the other team instead of saying “this is what we do. Try to stop it.”

We need to be known for something.
Oh LU is known for a lot of things :twisted: :D ha.
I think the answer to #2 is rooted in the Institution. I don’t know what it is but where has LU been consistently relevant on the National Stage despite providing the resources?
By phoenix
Registration Days Posts
#539082
I am wondering how much micro-management is coming from the university administration. THAT could be the institutional problem that LU has, and if so it's one that IM needs to address and get under control.

It could also be that JB couldn't hire football coaches, in which case we have to hope that our new AD can do a better job at vetting candidates.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#539084
Let’s remember Jeff only hired Gill. Success/failure of Rocco goes to Doc.

As for the institutional piece - there’s definitely something there, especially in men’s team sports.
By Stevev
Registration Days Posts
#539110
I like this thread. I will give it a try if my opinion means anything

Based on JK’s post in the AD thread, how do you answer these questions:

1. Why did this HC fail? He failed to build upon the solid foundation left by Coach Rocco with poor recruiting in too many key areas. He seemed to be against bringing in transfers from FBS programs to add to areas of weakness (such as Offensive line and RB;s). Rocco did a great job with that and Gill didn't do nearly enough to plug gaps (again OL issues). He recruited some positions well but some not so much. His play calling or lack thereof is well documented on this board).
2. What do we know now about what it takes that we didn't know last time? [b] I will have to think about this some more as I don't really have a good answer. Listen to the opinions of others and take them seriously. I think that some of here had reservations of Gill as a coach in year #2 and I ignored it and even criticized it. I guess I was wrong in doing that.
[/b]3. Describe the next head coach we need. I will leave that up to Ian to decide and trust his judgment. Either an established coach or an "up and comer" as long as he can relate to the players and fans. Some names are Lembo, Streeter, Chadwick, Clark, and others mentioned on this board. I certainly wouldn't object to getting Danny Rocco back if that is remotely possible. We certainly could go above and beyond those mentioned but it is Ian's call to make.
4. What did this coach do right that we want to build upon? Spiritual emphasis and is a good talker. I sort of like his press conferences and pre-season interviews.
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