[LUnpretty11]

Here's an interesting debate:

Are we now a more prestigious program than JMU?

Not that they would, but if JMU called IM and asked for a game, would we oblige? Or are we to the point now where that game would do more harm than good? Seems like the tables have turned from 5 years ago.

Great question and oddly enough, one I was thinking about in my car today. JMU is still more prestigious as an accomplished football team, there is no doubt about that. JMU is more prestigious than a lot of Sun Belt/Mac schools. Therefore, I would say JMU is still more prestigious in accomplishment, but now has a drastically lower ceiling than Liberty.

It is all about ceiling now. How high can Liberty go?

Also, a game with JMU right now would probably be a bad thing for Liberty - IMHO. I was reading on the JMU board that they owe us a game at Liberty in 2019, not sure if that reigns true or not. That would be the earliest I would want to play them right now - barring an FBS move up by JMU. In which case, I would want them every year.

[Purple Haize]

Here's an interesting debate:

Are we now a more prestigious program than JMU?

Not that they would, but if JMU called IM and asked for a game, would we oblige? Or are we to the point now where that game would do more harm than good? Seems like the tables have turned from 5 years ago.

Great question and oddly enough, one I was thinking about in my car today. JMU is still more prestigious as an accomplished football team, there is no doubt about that. JMU is more prestigious than a lot of Sun Belt/Mac schools. Therefore, I would say JMU is still more prestigious in accomplishment, but now has a drastically lower ceiling than Liberty.

It is all about ceiling now. How high can Liberty go?

Also, a game with JMU right now would probably be a bad thing for Liberty - IMHO. I was reading on the JMU board that they owe us a game at Liberty in 2019, not sure if that reigns true or not. That would be the earliest I would want to play them right now - barring an FBS move up by JMU. In which case, I would want them every year.

JMU isn't calling LU for a game

[alabama24]

I am not too excited about playing Appy State.

Let me guess--you want Tech, Bama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, and Michigan on the schedule, right?

Trying to MARSHALL your forces Cider?

[Purple Haize]

I am not too excited about playing Appy State.

Let me guess--you want Tech, Bama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, and Michigan on the schedule, right?

Trying to MARSHALL your forces Cider?

[LUnpretty11]

JMU isn't calling LU for a game

Maybe not, but they do owe us a game. Unless something has changed and hasn't been announced?

[ValleyBoy]

Here's an interesting debate:

Are we now a more prestigious program than JMU?

Not that they would, but if JMU called IM and asked for a game, would we oblige? Or are we to the point now where that game would do more harm than good? Seems like the tables have turned from 5 years ago.

Liberty is now an FBS football program where as JMU is FCS. FBS football members contact FCS about scheduling a football game not the other way around.

When it comes to football yes Liberty is more prestigious than JMU.

[flamehunter]

Sad thing is we had a pretty good line just 3-4 years ago.

[LUnpretty11]

When it comes to football yes Liberty is more prestigious than JMU.

How long have you followed LU/JMU? I ask because I don't know and am curious why you feel this way.

Historically and successfully speaking, JMU is more prestigious than Liberty. FBS gives Liberty the notoriety and puts it on another stage compared to JMU, but it will take more convincing (and a better argument) to see why Liberty is more prestigious than JMU at this phase.

[Purple Haize]

JMU isn't calling LU for a game

Maybe not, but they do owe us a game. Unless something has changed and hasn't been announced?

I think they bought their way out of it.

[ValleyBoy]

When it comes to football yes Liberty is more prestigious than JMU.

How long have you followed LU/JMU? I ask because I don't know and am curious why you feel this way.

Historically and successfully speaking, JMU is more prestigious than Liberty. FBS gives Liberty the notoriety and puts it on another stage compared to JMU, but it will take more convincing (and a better argument) to see why Liberty is more prestigious than JMU at this phase.

Started keeping up when Georgia Southern announced plans to move up. Liberty was also mentioned at that time. I did not hear any discussion of JMU until a couple of years ago when they turned the Sun Belt down.

The reason I feel this way is perception. Liberty is now with the big boys. Liberty is on the same level as Alabama, USC, Texas, Ohio State and every other team that plays FBS football.
JMU is still FCS which is in no way on the same level. Less than half of FCS football school fully fund the maximum number of scholarships allowed. Some do not even give scholarships, this is not the case at the FBS level. Every FBS uses right at the maximum number of scholarships. The vast majority of college football fans could careless about FCS, it is not right but that is just the way it is. It is the reason Liberty petitioned the NCAA to move up.

[Purple Haize]

When it comes to football yes Liberty is more prestigious than JMU.

How long have you followed LU/JMU? I ask because I don't know and am curious why you feel this way.

Historically and successfully speaking, JMU is more prestigious than Liberty. FBS gives Liberty the notoriety and puts it on another stage compared to JMU, but it will take more convincing (and a better argument) to see why Liberty is more prestigious than JMU at this phase.

Started keeping up when Georgia Southern announced plans to move up. Liberty was also mentioned at that time. I did not hear any discussion of JMU until a couple of years ago when they turned the Sun Belt down.

The reason I feel this way is perception. Liberty is now with the big boys. Liberty is on the same level as Alabama, USC, Texas, Ohio State and every other team that plays FBS football.
JMU is still FCS which is in no way on the same level. Less than half of FCS football school fully fund the maximum number of scholarships allowed. Some do not even give scholarships, this is not the case at the FBS level. Every FBS uses right at the maximum number of scholarships. The vast majority of college football fans could careless about FCS, it is not right but that is just the way it is. It is the reason Liberty petitioned the NCAA to move up.

No. No they are not. They are FBS but nowhere near the same level as those schools. THIS is the type of perception that LU fans need to get over in a hurry before their dreams are dashed. The nebulous 'not now but in the future' still has a ring of 'the next 5 years'.
Several posts ago I asked people to make a case as to why ND should schedule LU. Start there.

[LUGrad2000]

Since everyone seems obsessed with ND playing LU let's take a look at that. The very first question is: Why would ND play LU? What does it benefit them? They are currently tied into basically an ACC schedule, so any geographical recruiting advantage would be served by playing Tech or UVA. Their OOC schedule will consistently if not annually have Army, Navy, USC and Stanford. Throw in a Top 25 team and/or Regional/ B1G team. Where does LU fit in.
Make your case to the ND schedulers -Go.....

The most money ever paid for a game. Ever. Plus it would have to be at a neutral site while still being considered our home game. It could have to be somewhere ND would see real benefit. DC? Eh. Charlotte? Eh. Where? Not sure.

[ValleyBoy]

[quote="ValleyBoy"

When it comes to football yes Liberty is more prestigious than JMU.

Started keeping up when Georgia Southern announced plans to move up. Liberty was also mentioned at that time. I did not hear any discussion of JMU until a couple of years ago when they turned the Sun Belt down.

The reason I feel this way is perception. Liberty is now with the big boys. Liberty is on the same level as Alabama, USC, Texas, Ohio State and every other team that plays FBS football.
JMU is still FCS which is in no way on the same level. Less than half of FCS football school fully fund the maximum number of scholarships allowed. Some do not even give scholarships, this is not the case at the FBS level. Every FBS uses right at the maximum number of scholarships. The vast majority of college football fans could careless about FCS, it is not right but that is just the way it is. It is the reason Liberty petitioned the NCAA to move up.

No. No they are not. They are FBS but nowhere near the same level as those schools. THIS is the type of perception that LU fans need to get over in a hurry before their dreams are dashed. The nebulous 'not now but in the future' still has a ring of 'the next 5 years'.
Several posts ago I asked people to make a case as to why ND should schedule LU. Start there.[/quote] Yes it would be very hard for Liberty to get ND to schedule a football game, but it can happen now that they will be FBS, but I can tell you that there is NO chance that ND will play a FCS which means JMU. You do know that if the wind blows the right way Liberty could play ND in a bowl game. Now ND could make the decision not to play in a bowl game, but the odds are better for that game is still better than ND playing JMU as long as JMU is FCS.

[LUGrad2000]

One very big positive with us being Indy rather then in a G5 conference is that we will probably be spared the Tuesday or Wednesday night games. I love an occasional Thursday night game, but there is hands down no substitute for Saturday games.

[Purple Haize]

Since everyone seems obsessed with ND playing LU let's take a look at that. The very first question is: Why would ND play LU? What does it benefit them? They are currently tied into basically an ACC schedule, so any geographical recruiting advantage would be served by playing Tech or UVA. Their OOC schedule will consistently if not annually have Army, Navy, USC and Stanford. Throw in a Top 25 team and/or Regional/ B1G team. Where does LU fit in.
Make your case to the ND schedulers -Go.....

The most money ever paid for a game. Ever. Plus it would have to be at a neutral site while still being considered our home game. It could have to be somewhere ND would see real benefit. DC? Eh. Charlotte? Eh. Where? Not sure.

Ok. Fair enough. You are calling ND and offering money similar to Bowl money (the most I know of is $1 million being offered for a game) to play at a neutral site.
So LU will be on the hook for say:
$2 million Guarantee
ND team travel costs and expenses
Neutral Site rental fee for FedEx Field or heck Jerry World in Dallas
LU team travel to neutral site

[R i]

One very big positive with us being Indy rather then in a G5 conference is that we will probably be spared the Tuesday or Wednesday night games. I love an occasional Thursday night game, but there is hands down no substitute for Saturday games.

Brilliant. Thank you for pointing that out.

[VarsityLu]

We need to eventually get into C-USA. Seriously. I don't see long term sustainability as an independent. We will be ok for the transition period, but long term I don't see it working. C-USA East would put 6 teams within driving distance with two Florida teams as flight trips. We could do every other year with the Florida teams: one home, one away each year. C-USA would also give us an instant in-state rivalry with ODU. I think the teams in C-USA are more recognized as well: Marshall (one of the first FCS teams to move up, the movie about them), FIU (Miami brawl), Western Kentucky (their mascot). We could then have early season regulars with Army and BYU. Add one ACC and one SBC game each year and you have a pretty good schedule. Not too shabby, really.

[Purple Haize]

We need to eventually get into C-USA. Seriously. I don't see long term sustainability as an independent. We will be ok for the transition period, but long term I don't see it working. C-USA East would put 6 teams within driving distance with two Florida teams as flight trips. We could do every other year with the Florida teams: one home, one away each year. C-USA would also give us an instant in-state rivalry with ODU. I think the teams in C-USA are more recognized as well: Marshall (one of the first FCS teams to move up, the movie about them), FIU (Miami brawl), Western Kentucky (their mascot). We could then have early season regulars with Army and BYU. Add one ACC and one SBC game each year and you have a pretty good schedule. Not too shabby, really.

Apparently the FBS divide will now be upon this fault line. I'm with you. This is a sane sustainable model for FBS and LU. The is considering this as their new official position

[Class of 20Something]

We need to eventually get into C-USA. Seriously. I don't see long term sustainability as an independent. We will be ok for the transition period, but long term I don't see it working. C-USA East would put 6 teams within driving distance with two Florida teams as flight trips. We could do every other year with the Florida teams: one home, one away each year. C-USA would also give us an instant in-state rivalry with ODU. I think the teams in C-USA are more recognized as well: Marshall (one of the first FCS teams to move up, the movie about them), FIU (Miami brawl), Western Kentucky (their mascot). We could then have early season regulars with Army and BYU. Add one ACC and one SBC game each year and you have a pretty good schedule. Not too shabby, really.

Apparently the FBS divide will now be upon this fault line. I'm with you. This is a sane sustainable model for FBS and LU. The is considering this as their new official position

I'm really comfortable with this. I truly believe that we could compete at a high G5 level within 5 or 6 seasons. I think our bellweather has to be the next two recruiting classes. I already pointed out we aren't terribly behind on recruiting star recruits. Most G5 schools average six 3* recruits a season. If we can get 4 or 5 each of the next two seasons, that makes up for a lot of our short comings. Our starters can compete with high G5 and low P5 for a half. It's the depth that comes from getting 10-15 3* recruits every class that we can't compete with in the 2nd half.

[LUnpretty11]

Yes it would be very hard for Liberty to get ND to schedule a football game, but it can happen now that they will be FBS, but I can tell you that there is NO chance that ND will play a FCS which means JMU. You do know that if the wind blows the right way Liberty could play ND in a bowl game. Now ND could make the decision not to play in a bowl game, but the odds are better for that game is still better than ND playing JMU as long as JMU is FCS.

PH is, unfortunately, correct about this. Liberty and Alabama are FBS, true, but nowhere near the same level. The sad reality is, until Liberty builds street cred with Ws, the relevance Liberty has on the top tier (i.e. P5) won't change. In fact, I would argue that JMU is seen as a more prestigious football program as an FCS than Liberty by many within the P5 circles. Yes, Liberty gets more scholarships now. Yes, Liberty gets to play FBS football. Yes, that SHOULD make Liberty better. However, there is the harsh reality that many "low-mid major schools" are very irrelevant in CFB. How relevant are the Sun Belt schools? They're not. Yes, there is name recognition, but (most) those teams are floundering in the bottom and would get beat by 7+ against JMU.

Additionally, ND isn't playing at Liberty in the near future. A neutral site game even sounds ridiculous. ND doesn't have much of anything to gain besides $ and Liberty shouldn't shell it out for 1 game. Different story if it is a mutli-year deal, but again, that seems far reaching IMHO. Liberty isn't to that stage yet. The move to FBS is great and is a fantastic step forward and upward. It does not automatically cement Liberty as a shoe in for top tier games, nor does the school want that right now. IM has stated he wants to build the schedule up for the future, not get obliterated now.

Edit: JMU is associated with winning. Liberty is associated with money. It's the harsh reality and one that should (I hope quickly) change.

[ValleyBoy]

We need to eventually get into C-USA. Seriously. I don't see long term sustainability as an independent. We will be ok for the transition period, but long term I don't see it working. C-USA East would put 6 teams within driving distance with two Florida teams as flight trips. We could do every other year with the Florida teams: one home, one away each year. C-USA would also give us an instant in-state rivalry with ODU. I think the teams in C-USA are more recognized as well: Marshall (one of the first FCS teams to move up, the movie about them), FIU (Miami brawl), Western Kentucky (their mascot). We could then have early season regulars with Army and BYU. Add one ACC and one SBC game each year and you have a pretty good schedule. Not too shabby, really.

C-USA would be a good landing spot for Liberty due to location to other conference members but they have 14 members at this time and I do not see them going to 16 due to the way playoff money is distributed to G5 conferences. If they lose 1 member if they add a new member to get back to 14 would come down to location. If that member they lose is a western member the odds of the new addition being from the east drop. If they lose 2 members they could very well make no additions an stay at 12. For C-USA to add members they would have to lose an odd number of present members or drop below 10 members.

Also C-USA broadcast contract is not with ESPN so if Liberty joins C-USA, Liberty would lose access to ESPN3.

[TH Spangler]

Also C-USA broadcast contract is not with ESPN so if Liberty joins C-USA, Liberty would lose access to ESPN3.

Conference USA negotiated television deals with four different networks including ESPN, CBS Sports Network, beIN Sports and the American Sports Network?

[VarsityLu]

The sad reality is, until Liberty builds street cred with Ws, the relevance Liberty has on the top tier (i.e. P5) won't change. In fact, I would argue that JMU is seen as a more prestigious football program as an FCS than Liberty by many within the P5 circles. Yes, Liberty gets more scholarships now. Yes, Liberty gets to play FBS football. Yes, that SHOULD make Liberty better. However, there is the harsh reality that many "low-mid major schools" are very irrelevant in CFB. How relevant are the Sun Belt schools? They're not. Yes, there is name recognition, but (most) those teams are floundering in the bottom and would get beat by 7+ against JMU.

If you look at the RPI rankings which account for head-to-head and strength of schedule, there are only a handful of FCS teams in the top 130, so I don't think this statement is true. Only 4 SBC teams rank behind JMU. All FBS teams are ranked 144 or higher. There really is a big difference between FBS & FCS. Liberty will get better, Liberty will become a better football team than JMU, NDSU, and all the rest of the FCS schools. It's just the way FBS works.

By the way, no team who has jumped to FBS in the last 30+ years has made it to a P5 conference. In fact, none of those that have jumped have even been ranked in the top 25 with the exception of Boise State and occasionally Marshall. Liberty's lot in CFB will now be as a team that will be the 30th-130th best team in the country who occasionally gets to a bowl game. They should consistently beat FCS teams, though. The LU logo will be on the ESPN ticker every week, though. And LU games will be listed on all major news lists of college football scores.

[A Sea of Red]

Mailbag - taking your FBS questions

http://www.aseaofred.com/mailbag-taking ... questions/

[Purple Haize]

The LU logo was on the ESPN ticker every week already