Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#538660
No matter how one tries to spin it, 20-30 does not represent a successful stop at UB. W-L records are not always representative, but Gill, nor his successor, did particularly well with Gill's recruits. The fact that he was horrible at Kansas and so many bad losses at LU kinda tells the story for the average football fan. It is painfully obvious, even to the average/casual fan, that the overall program has digressed from where we were 5 years ago. Especially since TG has had the recruiting advantage of having better facilities and full price of attendance payments, that his successor didn't have. We have had some good wins, but way too many horrible losses. Time for a change, no question.
Gill 4 life.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#538662
willflop wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
willflop wrote:If there's a problem with under valuing what he did at UB, what about over valuing? He went 20 and 30 over the 4 years? Throw out the first year, and hes still only 18 and 20. After his best season of 7 amd 5, he finished at 5 and 7 in his last year at UB. The coach that took over Gill's team went 2 and 10, in 2010.

What am i missing? He turned a really bad team into a one time 7 and 5 season, that's it?
There’s a lot more to a record than W-L such as scheduling etc. I don’t know or have the desire to look at who they played non Conference which could contribute to some losses. Taking a dumpster fire that was UB football and winning the MAC and going to a Bowl game. That’s pretty solid. He was on a lot of lists for HC positions. Kansas made some sense. You had a dumpster fire there the way their coach was canned and they are bringing in a guy who had just turned one Program around. Based on what he did at UB that’s was a pretty safe bet. For numerous reasons it got short circuited.
Maybe he has equaled his success at UB here at LU. Maybe he’s plateaued the Program. Maybe he’s the type of coach that can get a program to a certain level of success and then it just levels off.
To his credit he’s been as successful as any Coach LU has had and better than one or two.
Agreed, not taking away from what he did, just trying not to over value it either. Based on the UB hype I've always heard, I was actually surprised to see how pedestrian it looks on paper.

Regarding OOC W/L:
2008 (7/5) - includes wins against UTEP and Army; lost to Pitt and Missouri (understandable).
2009 (5/7) - includes wins against UTEP and G-Webb; lost to UCF and Pitt.

I'm not sure how good Pitt and UCF were back then, but that looks like a pretty standard strength ooc schedule for a G5. Missouri was ranked 5th at the time.

It is interesting when you compare UB to LU, the trend looks pretty much the same. Slow start, peak (UB-bowl game; LU-Playoff), then a regression back to .500 play.

It's possible that the new coach at UB was a mess himself, but I do think it's telling that 2010 would have been fully Gill's team, apart from incoming freshman, and the strong decline that Gill started in 2009 continued. This coach turned it around a bit in his 3rd and 4th years, at least on paper.

New Coach:
2010: 2-10 (with an FCS win)
2011: 3-11
2012: 4-8
2013: 8-4

Looks like Gill did what any average coach could do, left with the program in shambles, and the next coach took them to their 2nd bowl game, bettering Gill's 09 record with 8-4, 4 years later.
Im totally tracking there myself maybe LU has gotten the best that Gill can give and it's led to some pretty neat things. Baylor (no matter how bad they are) Annual FBS wins. A playoff birth and a playoff win. On the other side of the coin he hasn't solved the problem of the WTH game that has plagued LU Coaches for decades. Had he been able to solve that mystery things would be much different
From first hand knowledge I have seen more Coaches come in and screw up a solid set of returning players then make them better or even continue the level of success they had the year before. To his credit Gill has at least maintained with spikes up. It just as easily could have returned to the days pre Rocco. Speaking of which, if this is his last year, he will leave the cupboard much fuller than he received. Remember Rocco put all his eggs into making the playoffs his last year here and what was left wasn't exactly world shattering.
Here are the two things in the back of my mind as the season progresses
There is obviously a disconnect in Offensive philosophy. But where is it coming from? Is Gill putting the shackles on the Offense and when it's desperation time does he let his OC lose? Or is it the OC determined to get the run going until Gill tells him to step off and he starts calling the passing uptempo offense? That's a question the great Alan York can ask but not if he wants to keep his job. And he wouldn't get an answer anyways
More importantly has he lost the locker room? With all the off field stuff going on do the players trust/buy in to him any more? From previous stops he seemed to cultivate a good coach/player relationship. I'm not getting that feeling I keep flashing back to him scolding Buck on the sideline at Baylor for celebrating his touchdown. That raised a Yellow Flag with me but now it's turning Red. There is a long list of successful stoic football coaches but quelling the enthusiasm of your players is a dicey prospect.
Ok it was a long reply but I'm at lunch and you did a good job putting into words some things I've been mulling. I wish I knew the answers to those questions but know I won't.
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#538669
Can we stop using Rocco not making the playoffs as Gill's marker for success here? He won the BSC outright 3 years in a row. There wasn't an Auto bid into the playoffs then. Gill has never outright won the Big South and made the playoffs on a tie breaker.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#538670
I don't think we can fully stop doing it, because TG not only got there but won a game. That continues to be a marker for success. Both accomplishments should be recognized. That said, TG's playoff marker was awhile ago.

TG is a player's coach, PH. I went the other way from you. I think you can be too much of a player's coach, too easy on the guys I mean.

Four days off during bye week? Seems one too many.

Inability to fire them up. Lack of passion, maybe too evenly-keeled. A troubling trend from my perspective.

Finally, lack of in-game adjustments. Opponents have taken away the vertical game since it was so explosive early season. What now?!
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#538671
JK37 wrote:I don't think we can fully stop doing it, because TG not only got there but won a game. That continues to be a marker for success. Both accomplishments should be recognized. That said, TG's playoff marker was awhile ago.

TG is a player's coach, PH. I went the other way from you. I think you can be too much of a player's coach, too easy on the guys I mean.

Four days off during bye week? Seems one too many.

Inability to fire them up. Lack of passion, maybe too evenly-keeled. A troubling trend from my perspective.

Finally, lack of in-game adjustments. Opponents have taken away the vertical game since it was so explosive early season. What now?!
4 days off in a Bye Week? Yeah not a fan of that. There are ways to keep things fresh and fun. That much time off is going to make you lethargic etc
I think the play calling has taken away the passing game as opposed to the opponents
He's a stoic dude. So is Sabin. So is a Belichek (sp) and Gill's mentor Osbourne. That's fine if you allow some emotion. Which is why I keep going back to that play at Baylor.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#538672
Class of 20Something wrote:Can we stop using Rocco not making the playoffs as Gill's marker for success here? He won the BSC outright 3 years in a row. There wasn't an Auto bid into the playoffs then. Gill has never outright won the Big South and made the playoffs on a tie breaker.
But those years the WTF games and playing St Paul and Our Mother of the Worthless Miracle hurt their chances. It's not a comparison because Rocco never went. I'm not comparing who is a better coach either.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
Posts
#538676
Purple Haize wrote:
Class of 20Something wrote:Can we stop using Rocco not making the playoffs as Gill's marker for success here? He won the BSC outright 3 years in a row. There wasn't an Auto bid into the playoffs then. Gill has never outright won the Big South and made the playoffs on a tie breaker.
But those years the Stupid Hose games and playing St Paul and Our Mother of the Worthless Miracle hurt their chances. It's not a comparison because Rocco never went. I'm not comparing who is a better coach either.
Coastal was in the BSC that entire time too though. And Presbyterian hasn't gone anywhere. We've gained KSU and now Campbell that both look better than liberty these days.
By FormerFlameFan
Posts
#538677
JK37 wrote:I don't think we can fully stop doing it, because TG not only got there but won a game. That continues to be a marker for success. Both accomplishments should be recognized. That said, TG's playoff marker was awhile ago.

TG is a player's coach, PH. I went the other way from you. I think you can be too much of a player's coach, too easy on the guys I mean.

Four days off during bye week? Seems one too many.

Inability to fire them up. Lack of passion, maybe too evenly-keeled. A troubling trend from my perspective.

Finally, lack of in-game adjustments. Opponents have taken away the vertical game since it was so explosive early season. What now?!
Yes, Turner coached a group of players that were brought n by Rocco...
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#538683
BuryYourDuke wrote:Gill didn't want the tougher schedules. We would have had some more marquee FCS match ups if he hadn't thrown a tantrum about them. Gill wanted more D2 games.

Stop acting like he wanted any better schedule than Rocco's.
It's not a matter of wanted it's a matter of what he got.
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#538686
My brother and I tossed around the idea of having Rashad Jennings in the recruiting staff. Could be a really fun guy to have on a recruit's couch. Mom watched DWTS and loves him. Could be really fun for him and help on the trail.
By flamehunter
Registration Days Posts
#538690
Class of 20Something wrote:My brother and I tossed around the idea of having Rashad Jennings in the recruiting staff. Could be a really fun guy to have on a recruit's couch. Mom watched DWTS and loves him. Could be really fun for him and help on the trail.
He's doing a sitcom now.
By BigRed1
Posts
#538695
Purple Haize wrote:
TH Spangler wrote:
ballcoach15 wrote:We can guess all day, but I think new coach will have ACC connections.
A little Jeopardy.

The answer is .... A NCAA P5 assistant football coach that once coached at LU who went on to win a national championship with an ACC team.

Question is, Who is Brandon Streeter? :lol:
But is that name splashy enough? This hire HAS to grab headlines. I don't think Streeter does that.
Now if it was Jason Street, Texas HS FB Legend, that would be different :D
Going after a “splashy” name got us what we have now.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#538697
I am concerned that we may be over-using Rashad as a face of the university as it is. Jerry Sr. did this years ago with at least 3 preachers/speakers at TRBC that back-fired on him. It is a difficult line to walk. Don't see Rashad being that big of a deal on the recruiting trail. Besides, if I am the new coach, I want to pick my own staff and recruiters, not having them pushed on me.
By Equinox
Registration Days Posts
#538699
Adding an assistant coach with Liberty ties and coaching experience helps to create a smooth transition. Why not just keep Kyle DeArmon and bring in Mike Brown, who is the RB coach at Delaware and former NFL player.
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#538702
JK37 wrote:It's interesting to hear you guys speak about coaches and characterize them solely by their past. As if one can't learn and change/adapt.

Sometimes all a coach needs is another chance.
I may need glasses but I still can't see halftime adjustments or anything fundementally different from 2012 to now. We all know his preference in style. He can't change or adapt.
User avatar
By badger74
Registration Days Posts
#538703
ballcoach15 wrote:I agree with Purple, in that hire has to be headline grabber. I do not think it will be a no name.

Let us not forget that Bob Stoops is available.
Was Paul Chryst a name or no name?

I agree that Gill needs to go. Too much invested now to have a mediocre at best HC in charge. Forget most P5 retreads/failures. Most fail for good reasons. Few ever return and succeed.
User avatar
By lawrenceq
Registration Days Posts
#538704
FLAMEfromBAMA wrote:Bill Clark

106-11 as High School Coach

4 Years as DCO at South Alabama as they transitioned to FBS.

1 Season as JSU Head Coach. During his only season as head coach at Jacksonville State, Clark led the Gamecocks to their first playoff victories, 49 school records, 13 OVC records and three NCAA records.

Currently in 2nd Season at UAB. Led them to first bowl game in years in ‘15, led them through a bunch of crap to reestablish program in ‘16, and currently sits second in the the C-USA at 4-2.

Only 49 Years Old, has been successful at every stop. Has transition to FBS experience. Recruiting ties to much of southeast. Has FCS & FBS HC experience. Is a Christian. Clean record, Family Man, Defensive Minded yet none of his programs have been offensively inept.


May not be a huge name to average cfb fans, but his name is a lot more well known that you’d think. Unless Ian really thinks he has a shot at a coach that is a top
candidate for P5 schools, which maybe we do, this would be a really solid move IMO.
He'd be a good one if they can get him.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#538705
badger74 wrote:
ballcoach15 wrote:I agree with Purple, in that hire has to be headline grabber. I do not think it will be a no name.

Let us not forget that Bob Stoops is available.
Was Paul Chryst a name or no name?

I agree that Gill needs to go. Too much invested now to have a mediocre at best HC in charge. Forget most P5 retreads/failures. Most fail for good reasons. Few ever return and succeed.
That would mean seismic change in LU Philosophy. I don’t know if IM is capable or inclined to change JR’s mind on that
By flamehunter
Registration Days Posts
#538707
Purple Haize wrote:
badger74 wrote:
ballcoach15 wrote:I agree with Purple, in that hire has to be headline grabber. I do not think it will be a no name.

Let us not forget that Bob Stoops is available.
Was Paul Chryst a name or no name?

I agree that Gill needs to go. Too much invested now to have a mediocre at best HC in charge. Forget most P5 retreads/failures. Most fail for good reasons. Few ever return and succeed.
That would mean seismic change in LU Philosophy. I don’t know if IM is capable or inclined to change JR’s mind on that
If JR has even half a brain left, he better let IM do as he sees fit.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#538708
I’m not sure how much I’m wagering on that. It’s a WWTD thing and he’d go splashy
By jlread
Registration Days Posts
#538710
Didn't Jimbo Fisher's start for the FSU Head coaching job begin at a Liberty Basketball game? When he came up from that Winston Salem prep school or something along those lines?!?!?! Hire Jimbo!
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