willflop wrote:Purple Haize wrote:willflop wrote:If there's a problem with under valuing what he did at UB, what about over valuing? He went 20 and 30 over the 4 years? Throw out the first year, and hes still only 18 and 20. After his best season of 7 amd 5, he finished at 5 and 7 in his last year at UB. The coach that took over Gill's team went 2 and 10, in 2010.
What am i missing? He turned a really bad team into a one time 7 and 5 season, that's it?
There’s a lot more to a record than W-L such as scheduling etc. I don’t know or have the desire to look at who they played non Conference which could contribute to some losses. Taking a dumpster fire that was UB football and winning the MAC and going to a Bowl game. That’s pretty solid. He was on a lot of lists for HC positions. Kansas made some sense. You had a dumpster fire there the way their coach was canned and they are bringing in a guy who had just turned one Program around. Based on what he did at UB that’s was a pretty safe bet. For numerous reasons it got short circuited.
Maybe he has equaled his success at UB here at LU. Maybe he’s plateaued the Program. Maybe he’s the type of coach that can get a program to a certain level of success and then it just levels off.
To his credit he’s been as successful as any Coach LU has had and better than one or two.
Agreed, not taking away from what he did, just trying not to over value it either. Based on the UB hype I've always heard, I was actually surprised to see how pedestrian it looks on paper.
Regarding OOC W/L:
2008 (7/5) - includes wins against UTEP and Army; lost to Pitt and Missouri (understandable).
2009 (5/7) - includes wins against UTEP and G-Webb; lost to UCF and Pitt.
I'm not sure how good Pitt and UCF were back then, but that looks like a pretty standard strength ooc schedule for a G5. Missouri was ranked 5th at the time.
It is interesting when you compare UB to LU, the trend looks pretty much the same. Slow start, peak (UB-bowl game; LU-Playoff), then a regression back to .500 play.
It's possible that the new coach at UB was a mess himself, but I do think it's telling that 2010 would have been fully Gill's team, apart from incoming freshman, and the strong decline that Gill started in 2009 continued. This coach turned it around a bit in his 3rd and 4th years, at least on paper.
New Coach:
2010: 2-10 (with an FCS win)
2011: 3-11
2012: 4-8
2013: 8-4
Looks like Gill did what any average coach could do, left with the program in shambles, and the next coach took them to their 2nd bowl game, bettering Gill's 09 record with 8-4, 4 years later.
Im totally tracking there myself maybe LU has gotten the best that Gill can give and it's led to some pretty neat things. Baylor (no matter how bad they are) Annual FBS wins. A playoff birth and a playoff win. On the other side of the coin he hasn't solved the problem of the WTH game that has plagued LU Coaches for decades. Had he been able to solve that mystery things would be much different
From first hand knowledge I have seen more Coaches come in and screw up a solid set of returning players then make them better or even continue the level of success they had the year before. To his credit Gill has at least maintained with spikes up. It just as easily could have returned to the days pre Rocco. Speaking of which, if this is his last year, he will leave the cupboard much fuller than he received. Remember Rocco put all his eggs into making the playoffs his last year here and what was left wasn't exactly world shattering.
Here are the two things in the back of my mind as the season progresses
There is obviously a disconnect in Offensive philosophy. But where is it coming from? Is Gill putting the shackles on the Offense and when it's desperation time does he let his OC lose? Or is it the OC determined to get the run going until Gill tells him to step off and he starts calling the passing uptempo offense? That's a question the great Alan York can ask but not if he wants to keep his job. And he wouldn't get an answer anyways
More importantly has he lost the locker room? With all the off field stuff going on do the players trust/buy in to him any more? From previous stops he seemed to cultivate a good coach/player relationship. I'm not getting that feeling I keep flashing back to him scolding Buck on the sideline at Baylor for celebrating his touchdown. That raised a Yellow Flag with me but now it's turning Red. There is a long list of successful stoic football coaches but quelling the enthusiasm of your players is a dicey prospect.
Ok it was a long reply but I'm at lunch and you did a good job putting into words some things I've been mulling. I wish I knew the answers to those questions but know I won't.