[Jonathan Carone]

We all know the offensive line is a mess. Part of the reason for that is they're incredibly young. That brings up the question of why we don't have upperclassman linemen when our staff is in its fifth year? Here's our recruiting pattern for offensive linemen:

1 in 2012
6 in 2013
2 in 2014
1 in 2015
5 in 2016

Of those 15 guys signed over the past four years, nine of them currently play offensive line for us. Five of them are no longer on the team and one is on defense. The five that aren't on the team are all from the 2013 class. That means before this season, we'd recruited 11 offensive linemen and only four of them stuck around until they were upperclassmen.

That brings up a few questions:

1) What happened to that 2013 class? Why have they all left? Did we miss on their talent? Did we miss on the type of kid we recruited?

2) Why are we waiting until we're desperate before we bring in linemen? We either bring in 1/2 or 5/6. Wouldn't it be a better strategy to spread that out so we don't go through what we're dealing with now?

I think regardless of how this season turns out, there has to be a change made at offensive line.

[Dalegarz1]

Excellent post! It is the weakest part of our team and should be the focus of our recruiting efforts. Skill players (and we have our share) are severely hampered by an offensive line that is either not talented enough or not coached up and developed enough. By the way, it's the weakest part of our team from a talent level. It rivals our play calling for the top spot of overall weakest.

[LUnpretty11]

We all know the offensive line is a mess. Part of the reason for that is they're incredibly young. That brings up the question of why we don't have upperclassman linemen when our staff is in its fifth year? Here's our recruiting pattern for offensive linemen:

1 in 2012
6 in 2013
2 in 2014
1 in 2015
5 in 2016

Of those 15 guys signed over the past four years, nine of them currently play offensive line for us. Five of them are no longer on the team and one is on defense. The five that aren't on the team are all from the 2013 class. That means before this season, we'd recruited 11 offensive linemen and only four of them stuck around until they were upperclassmen.

That brings up a few questions:

1) What happened to that 2013 class? Why have they all left? Did we miss on their talent? Did we miss on the type of kid we recruited?

2) Why are we waiting until we're desperate before we bring in linemen? We either bring in 1/2 or 5/6. Wouldn't it be a better strategy to spread that out so we don't go through what we're dealing with now?

I think regardless of how this season turns out, there has to be a change made at offensive line.

Although recruiting may be a factor, O-Line struggles are somewhat new to this regime. Here are years 2&3 under HCTG. These were also Woodrum's most successful campaigns as Liberty had a VERY balanced attack during these 2 years.

2014 9-5 with Playoff Win
RUSHING YARDAGE 2284
Average Per Rush 4.4
Average Per Game 163.1
TDs Rushing 29

2013 8-4 Missed Playoffs
RUSHING YARDAGE 2209
Average Per Rush 4.8
Average Per Game 184.1
TDs Rushing 36

Our O-Line dropped off considerably in 2015 and 2016 has looked even worse. Maybe this is what attributed to such a bad year for Woodrum? As Sweat may have mentioned in another thread, terrible offensive lines make terrific QBs look average.

I'm not sure what the issue has become, but we used to have a great O-Line and it is terrible now. But, the O-Line has not always been our weakness.

[Purple Haize]

OL is the most difficult position to recruit at this level. What is ideal and what is reality can be two rick things and often is. To go back to my earlier statement, this would be a good position to get some FBS transfers.
It's a good question about the 2013 class though

[Dalegarz1]

Purple Haize wrote; "OL is the most difficult position to recruit at this level". It's that last phrase which has me most confused. What exactly is "our level". The biggest athletic gap on campus is between money spent and results. When there is such a disparity between those two, discontentment runs wild (ask Les Miles).

[FlamesHighontheTide]

Great post Carone!

I know last year and its happening again this year with injuries. When you don't have chemistry or depth at the O-Line position chaos begins to develop. My hope is that from here on out even if the depth doesn't change significantly, that chemistry is developed on this o-line.

The other question I have thought of the last two games is this, "If our O-Line is depleted and out of whack do we slow down our offense?" I know that is difficult to do since we are already 1 month into the season.

[Jonathan Carone]

I know last year and its happening again this year with injuries. When you don't have chemistry or depth at the O-Line position chaos begins to develop.

Could the injuries and chaos have anything to do with the fact that we don't put guys in one position but rather have them play multiple positions along the lines? The amount of injuries have been increasing and the only thing I know that may have changed is that philosophy. It could also just be bad luck.

[LUalum12]

Great Post! I have noticed this as well. We currently have 2 O-Line than can play a little ball. One is Hartman and the other is Holder. The injury to Henderman really hurts because he is a solid lineman as well. When he was at guard last year on the same side as Hartman the left side of the line played well. Now we have young inexperienced lineman for the most part than cant move anyone off the ball. The are also getting man handled by most D-lines. I notice on Saturday they were pushed back around the qb on every passing play.

[Jonathan Carone]

Although recruiting may be a factor, O-Line struggles are somewhat new to this regime. Here are years 2&3 under HCTG. These were also Woodrum's most successful campaigns as Liberty had a VERY balanced attack during these 2 years.

I hesitate to ask this because everyone knows I'm a Rocco fan, but could it be that those years had upperclassmen recruited by Rocco's staff?

[LUnpretty11]

Although recruiting may be a factor, O-Line struggles are somewhat new to this regime. Here are years 2&3 under HCTG. These were also Woodrum's most successful campaigns as Liberty had a VERY balanced attack during these 2 years.

I hesitate to ask this because everyone knows I'm a Rocco fan, but could it be that those years had upperclassmen recruited by Rocco's staff?

There could be some of that, it's not a black and white answer. I think it was a combination of several factors, but I don't have a strong stance here.

Also, they may have been Rocco's recruits, but they were Jrs-Srs during those '13&'14 seasons. That tells me HCTG/Stamn were able to use them effectively in the system.

[olldflame]

Here are the 6 OL we signed in 2013

Dylan Brucki
Michael Henderman
Lucas Holder
Jesse Karnezis
Blanchard Sanwouo
Kris Wilson

Karnezis and Sanwouo both left after their Freshman year They were both redshirted and never played a snap for Liberty Sanwouo was a 6'6 260 kid from Africa who had never played football til his JR year of HS, but looked to have athleticism and was considered a "project" Never heard why he left Jesse was also only 260, but was a powerlifter I believe he left for personal reasons

Brucki was from Roanoke and Wilson from Richmond If I recall, Wilson came as a non-qualifier Neither played much at all before leaving after their R-FR year Both had D1 size and Wilson in particular was considered an excellent talent

That leaves Holder and Henderman, who are both now R-JRs and would both be starting if Hendermen were healthy

4 out of 6 leaving is a lot to be sure, but the other side of the coin is we got 2 solid starting OL out of a recruiting class, and that is something you will probably be happy with most years

Considering the lack of depth in the OL, it is puzzling on the surface that we moved a big, athletic guy like Gregg Storey to defense this Fall Gregg is another guy who didn't play football growing up and really only had 2 years of HS football He just never really caught on to the techniques of playing OL, and has thrived on the defensive side

[Purple Haize]

I know last year and its happening again this year with injuries. When you don't have chemistry or depth at the O-Line position chaos begins to develop.

Could the injuries and chaos have anything to do with the fact that we don't put guys in one position but rather have them play multiple positions along the lines? The amount of injuries have been increasing and the only thing I know that may have changed is that philosophy. It could also just be bad luck.

O Lines get shuffled all the time It's not abnormal to see Guards switch sides or slide over to Center.

[Purple Haize]

Purple Haize wrote; "OL is the most difficult position to recruit at this level". It's that last phrase which has me most confused. What exactly is "our level". The biggest athletic gap on campus is between money spent and results. When there is such a disparity between those two, discontentment runs wild (ask Les Miles).

Ask any coach on the FCS level where it is most difficult to recruit players. 85% will say O Line 10% will say D Line 5% will say QB
And money and results are not a 1:1 enterprise. We spent a pant load of money on a library and academics. How many Rhodes Scholars does LU have? Spending money helps but it is not a predictive indicator of success

[Jonathan Carone]

O Lines get shuffled all the time It's not abnormal to see Guards switch sides or slide over to Center.

I get that. What I'm talking about is something Wagner said earlier in the year. He talked about how our guys routinely practice different positions so they can fill in on anything when needed. It wasn't that we have guys set at tackle, at guard, and at center and then we can move them if there's a need. It's that he wanted guys to be solid at every position. It seems like it's a good at everything vs great at one thing philosophy. Neither are necessarily wrong but they each have their downsides. I wonder (and honestly don't know the answer) if injuries could be a downside of this philosophy. It could also just be bad luck.

[Purple Haize]

O Lines get shuffled all the time It's not abnormal to see Guards switch sides or slide over to Center.

I get that. What I'm talking about is something Wagner said earlier in the year. He talked about how our guys routinely practice different positions so they can fill in on anything when needed. It wasn't that we have guys set at tackle, at guard, and at center and then we can move them if there's a need. It's that he wanted guys to be solid at every position. It seems like it's a good at everything vs great at one thing philosophy. Neither are necessarily wrong but they each have their downsides. I wonder (and honestly don't know the answer) if injuries could be a downside of this philosophy. It could also just be bad luck.

I'm thinking its a philosophical thing. But I would really want a SOLID dedicated Left Tackle and maybe Center since he's usually the guy who calls line plays and adjustments. But that's me

[Chippy]

O Lines get shuffled all the time It's not abnormal to see Guards switch sides or slide over to Center.

I get that. What I'm talking about is something Wagner said earlier in the year. He talked about how our guys routinely practice different positions so they can fill in on anything when needed. It wasn't that we have guys set at tackle, at guard, and at center and then we can move them if there's a need. It's that he wanted guys to be solid at every position. It seems like it's a good at everything vs great at one thing philosophy. Neither are necessarily wrong but they each have their downsides. I wonder (and honestly don't know the answer) if injuries could be a downside of this philosophy. It could also just be bad luck.

I'm thinking its a philosophical thing. But I would really want a SOLID dedicated Left Tackle and maybe Center since he's usually the guy who calls line plays and adjustments. But that's me

It is, as you say, hard to get the best OL to come to a school at "our level". The best OL we had the last few years, Jonathan Burgess, was a walk-on. We have to get the best we can and hope to develop them to be successful at this level. We have been ravaged with injuries the last few years and with our lack of depth it impacts the offensive play calling and performance of the skill players.

[flamesfan4life1]

Great Post! I have noticed this as well. We currently have 2 O-Line than can play a little ball. One is Hartman and the other is Holder. The injury to Henderman really hurts because he is a solid lineman as well. When he was at guard last year on the same side as Hartman the left side of the line played well. Now we have young inexperienced lineman for the most part than cant move anyone off the ball. The are also getting man handled by most D-lines. I notice on Saturday they were pushed back around the qb on every passing play.

Not to disagree that Hartman and Holder are our best offensive lineman but just wanted to state that Hartman played right tackle last season. Max Sommer was at Left Tackle and Henderman was the left guard.

[olldflame]

I agree that the OL is a great position to benefit from FBS transfers We certainly did well with that in the Rocco years, and Gill is not adverse to it either Tanner Hartman transferred from Penn State, and we had Will Smith, who had started several games for Wake come as well, but he got hurt in practice and left school without ever playing a down

[Jonathan Carone]

Rashad was a huge transfer for us but I think the transfer of Sene and Pinigis were really key in setting that early foundation for us when Rocco got here.

[olldflame]

Rashad was a huge transfer for us but I think the transfer of Sene and Pinigis were really key in setting that early foundation for us when Rocco got here.

Add Marshall Ausberry to that list and we had 3 transfers from P5 schools starting on the OL for a year

[Jonathan Carone]

That was the 07 line, right? I was just thinking of the 06 team in that last post. That 07 line was so good once you added in Godsil and Stone as well. And that's with Weaver and Mosier still coming off the bench.

[olldflame]

That was the 07 line, right? I was just thinking of the 06 team in that last post. That 07 line was so good once you added in Godsil and Stone as well. And that's with Weaver and Mosier still coming off the bench.

07 is correct The BSC had no answer for those guys We steamrollered everybody but Coastal, and we put up 37 on them

[BJWilliams]

I won't say that they were better than the 07 group but we were very solid with that 09 group up front, and very consistent too with Weaver, Mosier, Cosby, Stadler and Vargas and Connolly, Schuster, Hartman, Wendland and Wrede as the second unit

[Jonathan Carone]

So the question remains: is it recruiting or coaching? Or both?

[Purple Haize]

So the question remains: is it recruiting or coaching? Or both?

If you'd asked after Tech I'd say coaching. But with injuries etc I'd say recruiting. But recruiting could come back to coaching.
O Line has the smallest margin of error at his level and they have used it all.