Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#517891
Technically we can go 6-5 and make the playoffs. It really just comes down to beating CSU and not losing more than one game in the league.

The reason I say making the playoffs scares me is because I genuinely don't think Coach Gill can get us to where we want to go. The LSU situation is actually very similar to where we are now. They were ready to get rid of him last year and then he won the last game of the season and had a blowout in his bowl game. Those end of year results convinced the administration to not do what they thought was best only a couple weeks earlier.

In our situation, many in the athletic department were certain Gill wasn't the guy after the Richmond game in 2014. Then we get a miracle blocked field goal at Coastal to send us to the playoffs and we ride that high into a win against JMU. Those great results in the moment turned around opinions (mine included) that maybe we were wrong. Then last year happened and everyone who previously thought he wasn't the guy realized 2014 might have been a lucky run. That's followed by a rebuilding year that should've never been a rebuilding year and more people are convinced he's not the guy moving forward.

LSU, being in the position we're in now, made the decision that they didn't want the false hope of a few opportune wins to change their minds on what they believed was in the best interest of the program moving forward so they went ahead and made the decision now.

I am not advocating releasing Gill mid-season. Rather I'm mentioning how a couple well-placed wins in big games can actually set the program back from doing what needs to be done for the long term health of it.
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By FlamesHighontheTide
Registration Days Posts
#517894
VAGOLF,

My goal is not to present this magical scenario because of my bias. So, I am sorry if that's what has happened. My point is simply we can't look into a crystal ball and say well our season is toast because of our poor play on offense at this moment. I know I am optimistic and a glass 3/4 full kind of guy and honestly that comes from my love of Jesus. So, yes I flipping guzzle the kool-aid because I know anything can happen in a long season. If we were 0-4 at this point, I would be optimistic that we could win a few a games but even my optimism would bow to the fact that it would take a miracle for us to make the playoffs.
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By VAGolf
Registration Days Posts
#517895
BJWilliams wrote:
VAGolf wrote:BJ, Kelly is twice the coach Helfrich is and both have very different coaching philosophies. Helfrich is a season and a half away from getting canned.
Youre focusing on the wrong part of my point Sweat...its not about whether Kelly or Helfrich is the better coach, its about the fact that no matter who their coach is, Oregon is having significant offensive success with the style of offense we want to run. They are getting the ball to their speed burners and playmakers and they are putting up almost video game type numbers on the stat sheet and the scoreboard (the last couple games notwithstanding). If we were putting up those kinds of numbers this year I seriously doubt we would be having the discussions we are having about HCTG's job security, attendance and the like.
Beej...go read your own statement. You want Gill to go up to Oregon and learn their current offense...coached by Mark Helfrich.

Also, it really doesn't have much to do with the style. Oregon has the best recruiting capabilities within a 1,500 mile radius...besides USC.
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#517899
Again I still don't think youre getting my point sweat...but at this point I'm not going to get anywhere with trying to explain it and all its gonna lead to is Jon coming in and calling me an idiot or a know nothing or some such thing so Im just gonna leave it there and just say that we are not running an uptempo offense as it should be run and we have a lot to learn.
By rtb72
Posts
#517901
Jonathan Carone wrote:Technically we can go 6-5 and make the playoffs. It really just comes down to beating CSU and not losing more than one game in the league.

The reason I say making the playoffs scares me is because I genuinely don't think Coach Gill can get us to where we want to go. The LSU situation is actually very similar to where we are now. They were ready to get rid of him last year and then he won the last game of the season and had a blowout in his bowl game. Those end of year results convinced the administration to not do what they thought was best only a couple weeks earlier.

In our situation, many in the athletic department were certain Gill wasn't the guy after the Richmond game in 2014. Then we get a miracle blocked field goal at Coastal to send us to the playoffs and we ride that high into a win against JMU. Those great results in the moment turned around opinions (mine included) that maybe we were wrong. Then last year happened and everyone who previously thought he wasn't the guy realized 2014 might have been a lucky run. That's followed by a rebuilding year that should've never been a rebuilding year and more people are convinced he's not the guy moving forward.

LSU, being in the position we're in now, made the decision that they didn't want the false hope of a few opportune wins to change their minds on what they believed was in the best interest of the program moving forward so they went ahead and made the decision now.

I am not advocating releasing Gill mid-season. Rather I'm mentioning how a couple well-placed wins in big games can actually set the program back from doing what needs to be done for the long term health of it.
Well stated! This was exactly my point. LU has to decide what they want in their program. If we just want to settle for a few well placed wins and getting to the playoffs once in awhile.....fine, that's what we'll achieve. If we want more, as I think we all do; there has to be a vision and investment for that future. Eventually, the fans get tired of placing hopes in the "next year's team". I think you said "false hope", and I think that is where a lot of fans are right now....hence the frustration.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#517909
Jonathan Carone wrote:That's not correct. I was an advocate of Gill and was extremely excited about the hire. It wasn't until his second season that I started doubting it.
So you gave him 1 year
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#517912
Doubt was probably the wrong word. It was after the ODU game in 2013 that I started hearing the rumblings coming from people close to the program. Then at homecoming vs Coastal and that debacle I actually got to talk to people about it and saw it in person. That's when I started questioning it more and more. By Richmond the next year I realized who we were. Chima's Hand and the JMU win gave me a false hope that I was wrong but last year reinforced every doubt I had. This year is just solidifying it.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#517913
VAGolf wrote:
BJWilliams wrote:
VAGolf wrote:BJ, Kelly is twice the coach Helfrich is and both have very different coaching philosophies. Helfrich is a season and a half away from getting canned.
Youre focusing on the wrong part of my point Sweat...its not about whether Kelly or Helfrich is the better coach, its about the fact that no matter who their coach is, Oregon is having significant offensive success with the style of offense we want to run. They are getting the ball to their speed burners and playmakers and they are putting up almost video game type numbers on the stat sheet and the scoreboard (the last couple games notwithstanding). If we were putting up those kinds of numbers this year I seriously doubt we would be having the discussions we are having about HCTG's job security, attendance and the like.
Beej...go read your own statement. You want Gill to go up to Oregon and learn their current offense...coached by Mark Helfrich.

Also, it really doesn't have much to do with the style. Oregon has the best recruiting capabilities within a 1,500 mile radius...besides USC.
Ok actually I will touch on this: There are two reasons I think Oregon is able to recruit so well for their uptempo style and only one of them has to do with the actual style itself.
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By LUnpretty11
Registration Days Posts
#517915
Jonathan Carone wrote:Valid conern. Valid concern. And, valid concern. Chima's Hand and the JMU win gave me a false hope that I was wrong but last year reinforced every doubt I had. Valid concern.
This is where you lose me with your arguments and we have debated it and will continue doing so for a long time. You give way too much credit to one play and that's not right.
By Chris Lang
Registration Days Posts
#517919
I'm all for saying that other things came into play in that Coastal game, but the point remains that if Chima doesn't block that field goal, Liberty loses and Gill probably has to fire half of his staff. For all of the good things that happened in that game for LU -- the defense's all-around solid performance, Masha keeping the offense moving for the most part -- the result isn't the result if Coastal knocks home a chip-shot field goal that is good probably 90 percent of the time.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#517920
I don't mean to demean the Coastal win but close games against opponents who are better than you generally come down to 1-2 plays. It just so happened the one play was the very last one of the game.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#517926
Jonathan Carone wrote:I don't mean to demean the Coastal win but close games against opponents who are better than you generally come down to 1-2 plays. It just so happened the one play was the very last one of the game.
And LU made those plays but you refuse to give credit for that. Or the JMU game.
That's a game a year prior LU is not in position to win with a blocked field goal
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#517933
Jonathan Carone wrote:They get all the credit in the world. That's why I say I had hope that I was wrong. Then last year happened.
You really don't. You always say 'If it hadn't been for that blocked field goal...' That's not giving them credit. That's saying it was luck
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#517936
That's because it was luck. But luck only works if you put yourself in place to use it. Also, in the next sentence I generally mention the win over JMU which is the most impressive win we've ever had.
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By LUnpretty11
Registration Days Posts
#517967
Luck is slang for skill. Lang, I totally agree with your point. There were several factors that kept us in that game and in a position to win. A blocked FG doesn't make those irrelevant and that is where Jon loses me. He makes it SEEM like none of those other factors matter because of 1 play.

I'd say the 2014 season is the real deal, but so was 2015 and that is what concerns me so much right now.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#539104
Jonathan Carone wrote:I'm as big of a Rocco fan as their is on this board. What he did with Asa was a mistake and unfortunately it was a big enough mistake to cost him his job. The mistake is not the definition of who he is or his character. It was simply a mistake.
The way some people acted over the Asa deal, Rocco was better off without us . And if stupid stuff like the. he said, the band member said continuous we will have a hard time finding a good coach. I don't care how much we are willing to pay him.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#539105
ballcoach15 wrote:Win over JMU is probably our biggest. Especially since the NCAA sent us on road to JMU.
Uh, NO!

That game was played at JMU because the sealed bid they submitted was higher than ours. Basically JB didn't think JMU would go big, but they did. Obviously we could have gone higher had we known. All things considered, it worked out splendidly for us. We won at their house and their AD got lambasted by the fan base for wasting the $$$. I want to say it was over 200g.
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#539109
TH Spangler wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:I'm as big of a Rocco fan as their is on this board. What he did with Asa was a mistake and unfortunately it was a big enough mistake to cost him his job. The mistake is not the definition of who he is or his character. It was simply a mistake.
The way some people acted over the Asa deal, Rocco was better off without us . And if stupid stuff like the. he said, the band member said continuous we will have a hard time finding a good coach. I don't care how much we are willing to pay him.
The way Rocco dealt with the Asa situation absolutely was something worth being critical over. It isn't even closely comparable to talking down to the band. It was a huge mistake by Rocco and I am sure one in which he learned from.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#539166
I wouldn’t be so sure. If I had to guess, I would bet Rocco isn’t totally convinced he couldn’t have weathered the Asa storm at any other DI school.
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