Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

If Liberty misses playoffs, does JB dismiss Turner Gill?

Yes
21
40%
No
31
60%
User avatar
By VAGolf
Registration Days Posts
#509990
No, this is not meant to create controversy. I like TG. This is just for discussion. No one needs to call for a firing...just wanted to see everyone's thoughts.

Should Liberty miss the playoffs, would JB consider firing TG at the end of the season? If not, what's the limit?
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#509991
Its his first year with all his own players so I would say no, but you have to think there will be a lengthy discussion in JB's soon as they get back to Lynchburg if that were to happen
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#509992
Yes. With Coastal gone, and coming off our worst men's sports season in a decade, we can't continue falling behind in football. If he fails to make the playoffs, that means he only has one conference championship in five years, that CSU likely finished ahead of us twice, and that he wasn't good enough to garner an at-large bid to a 24-team playoff yet again.

It will also be interesting to see if there is a dip in attendance. After the string of losses last year, our attendance dipped severely for a game before bouncing back against Coastal. With the lack of a rivalry game and only one good home game, we can't afford to take a step back in fan support.
By flamehunter
Registration Days Posts
#509994
Is the question should he or will he? I think he won't unless we totally crap out this season. But he SHOULD at least consider it if we miss the playoffs.
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#509995
flamehunter wrote:Is the question should he or will he? I think he won't unless we totally crap out this season. But he SHOULD at least consider it if we miss the playoffs.
This
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#509996
Wow. It will make his seat warm. But not get him fired
There are 2 competing issues. On the one hand there is a new QB and some holes to fill. That would buy any coach time. On the other hand, with Coastal gone, LU should have an easier chance to make the playoffs. Even the annual WTF game won't hurt as bad because the rest of the league is down
So there are built in excuses either way
User avatar
By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#509998
I dont see us any better than 7 and 4 unless masha and probert are significantly better than woodrum and lunsford were last year. 7 and 4 would get 1 more year from me. Anything less would be the end for me.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#510001
Tough to tell how sentiments are running where it really matters. I don't believe much of us saw the Rocco departure actually occurring until it did. I frankly believe we will be able to win enough this year to merit more time.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#510004
Sly Fox wrote:Tough to tell how sentiments are running where it really matters. I don't believe much of us saw the Rocco departure actually occurring until it did. I frankly believe we will be able to win enough this year to merit more time.
Rocco's departure had more to do with off field issues than on. Gill doesn't have those same type issues
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#510006
Rocco was told to look for a new job because he had too much power, had abused it to a sense, and wouldn't make staff changes when told to. Gill mildly made staff changes when told to, mainly reshuffling roles as opposed to getting rid of guys.
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#510007
Sly Fox wrote:Tough to tell how sentiments are running where it really matters.
I know a couple things:

1) There are many in the tower who don't believe Gill is the guy. None of those, that I know of, is named Jeff Barber.

2) As of homecoming 14, Jeff wasn't impressed with Gill's performance. This was obviously before Chima's hand saved the season.

3) Many in the tower, possibly Jeff included, thought the entire football program had gotten too comfortable. The way it was described to me was that there was an overwhelming feeling that a shake up of some sort needed to happen after last season to put the pressure back on the program.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#510008
Jonathan Carone wrote:
Sly Fox wrote:Tough to tell how sentiments are running where it really matters.
I know a couple things:

1) There are many in the tower who don't believe Gill is the guy. None of those, that I know of, is named Jeff Barber.

2) As of homecoming 14, Jeff wasn't impressed with Gill's performance. This was obviously before Chima's hand saved the season.

3) Many in the tower, possibly Jeff included, thought the entire football program had gotten too comfortable. The way it was described to me was that there was an overwhelming feeling that a shake up of some sort needed to happen after last season to put the pressure back on the program.
:roll:
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#510010
How is that debatable? The season would've been a massive disappointment without that blocked field goal. Chima's hand literally saved the season. They then took advantage of that and had a great postseason showing.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#510011
Jonathan Carone wrote:How is that debatable? The season would've been a massive disappointment without that blocked field goal. Chima's hand literally saved the season. They then took advantage of that and had a great postseason showing.
I have heard on more than one occasion following the 2014 season when JB thought someone was getting a bit too cocky about football he pointed to his hand.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#510012
olldflame wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:How is that debatable? The season would've been a massive disappointment without that blocked field goal. Chima's hand literally saved the season. They then took advantage of that and had a great postseason showing.
I have heard on more than one occasion following the 2014 season when JB thought someone was getting a bit too cocky about football he pointed to his hand.
Because a game and season is more than 1 play Its more your last sentence. By insinuating that a hand saved the season you minimize everything done up to that point and after. As though it were mere luck

If JB did that, then that's a dick move. At least they were in a position that making that play got them to the playoffs then beyond.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#510015
At what point is Barber on the hot seat? I'm having trouble coming up with a hire of his that has worked out well.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#510016
I posted this in the baseball forum but since you asked:
Jeff has made incredible hires in the Olympic sports. He's overseen the building of great facilities and an awesome game day experience. Unfortunately, the main men's sports haven't fared well under him. The average conference finish for our men's teams over the last four years is right around 3.5 in the league (this year it's fourth). Football's average finish in that time is second. Men's basketball is ninth. Baseball is 4.5. Soccer is sixth. Tennis is fourth. Other than golf and anything track related, it hasn't been an awesome four year run.

While all that is true and not good, I don't want to get rid of Jeff. I think the politics and inner workings of Liberty are extremely tough to navigate and he's done a great job working within the system. If a change were to be made, it would be solely off the results of some of those programs and not the overall health and strength of the department. I don't know that there are many people out there willing to work at Liberty who could do a better job at that position than Jeff has. Remember, we are a monarchy, not a traditional structure. The politics and ego managing is a gigantic part of the job in ways normal ADs never have to experience.

With that said, I think there has been a marked decline in results since we started focusing on buildings and facilities. Since 2012, our men's team's results have declined fairly significantly (average finish of 3.5 to average finish of 4.5). The women, overall, are only slightly down (average finish of 2.5 down to 2.6). We need to shift our focus from marketing and facilities back to results and winning. Too many of our programs (especially the men) got too comfortable and lost their edge. We have to get back to winning or else there'll be no choice but for Jeff's seat to get a little hot. If he has to fire his football, basketball, and baseball coaches (all of which he hired) within three years, there's no way you can justify having faith in his hiring decisions.

I like Jeff a lot and want him to succeed. We just have to have a change in results or we won't have a choice.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#510017
If he's pulling crap like that with his hand than that speaks volumes about the 'Athletic Culture' that needs to be changed. Belittling the best season in a sports season like that is completely uncalled for and unprofessional by the leader of the Athletic Department. Why not build up the success of your programs instead of taking little jabs at them like that.
I have had no opinion of him one way or the other. Working at LU is not easy for any AD but I'm not sure he is the one navigating it's inner workings I.e. Making sure the trains run on time. He did not have to go out and raise money for any of the Capital improvements. He hasn't had to be the face of the Department. He has t really done anything that any other AD hasnt had the ability to do (except maybe 1). He's just had the resources to look good. He was supposed to be able to move LU up to FBS.......
User avatar
By VAGolf
Registration Days Posts
#510018
I had a feeling this would generate a quality discussion.

A couple of thoughts.

1. Let's be careful with the JB discussion. Do we actually know that incident happened? Or is it just gossip?

2. I think too often we tie AD's with the records of the athletic programs. Yes, it's his responsibility to provide the right structure for success in all programs. However, his responsibilities extend beyond on-field/court success. And when you consider our current aspirations, I would say that his focus is likely centered around positioning LU for a conference invite. It's probably healthy to have a respectable discussion about his performance, but I don't believe this thread is the place.

3. To Purple's point about the current holes in the roster: Isn't it the coach's job to ensure that quality replacements are available? We knew two years ago that Josh would be gone by this season. If our QB play inhibits our ability to win the conference, couldn't I make the argument that it only further puts Gill on the hot seat?
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#510019
VAGolf wrote:I had a feeling this would generate a quality discussion.

A couple of thoughts.

1. Let's be careful with the JB discussion. Do we actually know that incident happened? Or is it just gossip?

2. I think too often we tie AD's with the records of the athletic programs. Yes, it's his responsibility to provide the right structure for success in all programs. However, his responsibilities extend beyond on-field/court success. And when you consider our current aspirations, I would say that his focus is likely centered around positioning LU for a conference invite. It's probably healthy to have a respectable discussion about his performance, but I don't believe this thread is the place.

3. To Purple's point about the current holes in the roster: Isn't it the coach's job to ensure that quality replacements are available? We knew two years ago that Josh would be gone by this season. If our QB play inhibits our ability to win the conference, couldn't I make the argument that it only further puts Gill on the hot seat?
Some holes are more difficult to fill immediately than others IMO there are QB's on the roster who are better talents than who we have had in the past BUT are they ready to do that next year is the question?
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#510093
There are several things mentioned on this forum that were supposed to have happened, that never happened. Personally, I would never claim JB pointed to his hand, unless I saw it first hand. In addition, one shouldn't underestimate how much proper coaching might/might not have played in that blocked FG.
We are going to lose some games next year, but unless we have another GW, Monmouth disaster, I don't see Gill's seat as getting anything more than slightly warm. We seem to be recruiting a little better type of athlete than we have in the past and that should bode well for the future................ hopefully.
FWIW, if we have another debacle like GW, I would be 100% for looking for someone else. :shock:
User avatar
By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#510129
I voted no. Not because he shouldn't be dismissed, but because JB has a hard time getting rid of people who don't perform. I don't know if it's his fault or if he's being hamstrung from higher up. Either way, I don't see Gill getting canned after this year regardless of the team's record on the field.
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#510131
I don't think its that he has a hard time getting rid of them for not performing, I think its more that sometimes he puts himself in a difficult position contractually. He gave Layer an extension after the BSC tourney win for men's basketball and then the team massively underachieved the next year and he couldn't just off the guy the year after without eating a large chunk of his salary in the buyout, if there was one built into the deal.

That said, if you look back over the previous 10 years that he has been AD, JB has only had to handle coaching changes in the "Big 3" a handful of times (HWSNBN>McKay, McKay>DL, DL>McKay in MBB, DR>HCTG in FB, MR>JT in BB), and all of those were based in part on performance.
By Chris Lang
Registration Days Posts
#510134
You can go all revisionist history if you want, but there was a palpable feeling inside of the building that the staff was in serious, serious trouble had they lost that Coastal game. That one play did turn a season that was about to be a complete disappointment into a stirring run. If they lose that game, I know of several coaches that feel like they would have paid for it with their jobs. As well as Liberty did to put itself in that position for that play to matter, it was still a hundred to one shot that you block a 24-yard field goal to win a game. It just doesn't happen.

I'm too far removed to comment on whether or not Gill's seat is hot now, but the week leading up to that Coastal game was, uh, tense.
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