Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

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If Liberty misses playoffs, does JB dismiss Turner Gill?

Yes
21
40%
No
31
60%
By rtb72
Posts
#517954
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:No one can argue that Gill hasn't won some big games since being here. In fact, he's won some of the biggest games in program history.
Yet people continue to or at least diminish them
Do we really want a program we have to defend with a big game win here or there that in the end doesn't reflect long term progress for a program? What direction are we going in as a whole as evidenced by entire season successes? Are we going forward from where we were three, four, five years ago?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#517955
rtb72 wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:No one can argue that Gill hasn't won some big games since being here. In fact, he's won some of the biggest games in program history.
Yet people continue to or at least diminish them
Do we really want a program we have to defend with a big game win here or there that in the end doesn't reflect long term progress for a program? What direction are we going in as a whole as evidenced by entire season successes? Are we going forward from where we were three, four, five years ago?
I would say yes because LU is winning those big games that they used to lose.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#517956
Rocco was 4-5 vs Top 25 opponent in six years. Gill is 6-8 vs Top 25 opponents in 4+ years.

We've had more opportunities to play Top 25 teams under Gill than we did Rocco so Gill has both won more and lost more Top 25 games than Rocco did in less time.
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By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#517957
We have also scheduled games that Rocco did not want to play. I prefer that we have a schedule that includes 2 FBS games and FCS power schools like Montana, Jacksonville State and MVFC teams.
By Wvflame2013
Posts
#517960
The question should not be is he on the hot seat but how hot is it getting. And it is getting very very hot. Saturday, I seen one of the worst teams fundamentally in the 6 years I have been watching Liberty football. The tackling was rather poor. The offensive line was as effective as a wet fart, and wet farts are more enjoyable and quite funny. The offense and play calling looked as though Jeff Mullen was in charge. (Sly is probably mad I mentioned that name). With the way our team has looked, I'd be surprised if we don't lose at least 2 big south games. Were not an elite program. With Gill leading, I do not want to ever move up to FBS, we would be an embarrassment.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#517961
I don't think it's fair to say Rocco didn't want to play those games because I know those were games he wanted to play. We didn't have the prestige as a program to garner home and homes with the likes of Montana and Jacksonville State. Jeff didn't want to do one offs or two-for-ones so we didn't get the opportunity to play those games.
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By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#517962
Jonathan Carone wrote:I don't think it's fair to say Rocco didn't want to play those games because I know those were games he wanted to play. We didn't have the prestige as a program to garner home and homes with the likes of Montana and Jacksonville State. Jeff didn't want to do one offs or two-for-ones so we didn't get the opportunity to play those games.
I'll disagree and I think it's fair. The scheduling changed as soon as Rocco left. The Montana home/home was signed the month following his departure.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#517965
That's simply not true. The Montana game was teased starting in October of 2011. Rocco left on December 6 and word leaked out December 9 that we were playing them. The negotiations started well before Rocco left.

Gill gets total credit for beating Montana, but the scheduling shift started before he got here. He actually wanted to play three D2's his first year and was told he couldn't. The scheduling shift to our current philosophy would've happened regardless of Rocco, Gill or anyone else because it was mandated by Jeff. If anyone gets credit for it, it's Jeff and Paul.
By jcrew4
Registration Days Posts
#517969
BJWilliams wrote:Its one thing to pursue the "good players" from the area ballcoach, but you have to ask yourself a couple questions if youre a coach (football, basketball, baseball, etc.)

1) How will this player fit within the philosophy of the coach (offensive, defensive, etc.)? To use the football example, if Im a coach and I run an uptempo, fast paced offense that requires a mobile QB who can run as well as pass, Im not exactly going to be jumping through hoops to try to sign a 6-4, 240 Lb QB who is about as mobile as Michaelangelo's David just because he happens to be from a school in my area, when there is a 6-2 200 Lb QB somewhere else who has the skill set that would match better within my offense.
2) How will this player fit within the philosophy of my institution? Its been discussed ad nauseum et infinitum (apologies to any Latin scholars on the board if that isn't exactly right) what Liberty is all about. Do we bring in questionable players in an effort to "just win baby" or do we bring in guys that match our philosophy but may not be a "D1 talent"? Or perhaps the answer lies somewhere in the middle of those two possibilities?
So do you think Gill and his staff are good recruiters? Is the issue quality players or quality coaching?
By Chris Lang
Registration Days Posts
#517972
Barber told me a number of times that he wasn't interested in playing 2-for-1s where LU had to go on the road twice against other FCS programs. He felt the program had better stature than that. He wanted to improve the schedule. But, for instance, before App moved up, the only way App would schedule LU was if LU went to Boone twice in exchange for one trip to Lynchburg. Montana was a good partner because a) the Griz have a history of coming East and b) it's really hard for Big Sky programs to find out-of-conference games due to there being no non-conference opponents out West.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#517973
You raise very good questions jcrew...I think they are fine recruiters and certainly fine gentlemen all up and down the line...the problem is that I think there is somewhat of a lack of development in key areas and those areas have manifested themselves in our three losses this year. First off, they made a switch to a more uptempo style that is better suited for Masha's "particular set of skills" but the problem is I don't think they fully invested in learning that style (I could be wrong though...wouldn't be the first time). As I said in the JSU Postmortem thread I believe, if I were the OC, if I planned to run that style of offense, I would be getting every bit of film and information I could and absorbing it all until I practically became an expert at that style of offense, and then I would be evaluating my players and finding all the ones who would best fit within that style.

I think if I had to really pinpoint which of the two is the issue, I think its the lack of quality coaching. Even if you want to "ride or die" with a QB for 4 years like we did with Woodrum. you NEED to develop a quality backup that can step right in not only when the established starter goes down (for any reason), but so that after he graduates, there is little to no dropoff as well whether he takes over as the new starter OR a new recruit comes in and earns the #1 job. Unfortunately that isn't what I have seen happening here.
By Wvflame2013
Posts
#517975
BJWilliams wrote:You raise very good questions jcrew...I think they are fine recruiters and certainly fine gentlemen all up and down the line...the problem is that I think there is somewhat of a lack of development in key areas and those areas have manifested themselves in our three losses this year. First off, they made a switch to a more uptempo style that is better suited for Masha's "particular set of skills" but the problem is I don't think they fully invested in learning that style (I could be wrong though...wouldn't be the first time). As I said in the JSU Postmortem thread I believe, if I were the OC, if I planned to run that style of offense, I would be getting every bit of film and information I could and absorbing it all until I practically became an expert at that style of offense, and then I would be evaluating my players and finding all the ones who would best fit within that style.

I think if I had to really pinpoint which of the two is the issue, I think its the lack of quality coaching. Even if you want to "ride or die" with a QB for 4 years like we did with Woodrum. you NEED to develop a quality backup that can step right in not only when the established starter goes down (for any reason), but so that after he graduates, there is little to no dropoff as well whether he takes over as the new starter OR a new recruit comes in and earns the #1 job. Unfortunately that isn't what I have seen happening here.
I'd agree with you BJ. It's like they said they were going to play fast but the neglected to even learn how to run an uptempo offense. We have some great fast guys in space like parker, hickson, king, etc but we have yet to utilize this talent in the open field. It is head scratching. The play calling has been atrocious. I have yet to see a change in the offense from last year. We either run up the middle, throw a deep go route, a pitch pass to the wr, or a zone read where the qb always pitches. And don't forget the sack play. He calls that one quite frequently. Not sure if its an actual play though but it is very well designed. I'd like to add that our qb's have a total of -39 yards rushing, with sacks included. That's bad with such an athletic running qb as masha.
By jcrew4
Registration Days Posts
#517997
BJWilliams wrote:You raise very good questions jcrew...I think they are fine recruiters and certainly fine gentlemen all up and down the line...the problem is that I think there is somewhat of a lack of development in key areas and those areas have manifested themselves in our three losses this year. First off, they made a switch to a more uptempo style that is better suited for Masha's "particular set of skills" but the problem is I don't think they fully invested in learning that style (I could be wrong though...wouldn't be the first time). As I said in the JSU Postmortem thread I believe, if I were the OC, if I planned to run that style of offense, I would be getting every bit of film and information I could and absorbing it all until I practically became an expert at that style of offense, and then I would be evaluating my players and finding all the ones who would best fit within that style.

I think if I had to really pinpoint which of the two is the issue, I think its the lack of quality coaching. Even if you want to "ride or die" with a QB for 4 years like we did with Woodrum. you NEED to develop a quality backup that can step right in not only when the established starter goes down (for any reason), but so that after he graduates, there is little to no dropoff as well whether he takes over as the new starter OR a new recruit comes in and earns the #1 job. Unfortunately that isn't what I have seen happening here.
So let me just stir the pot a little bit just for conversation sake. I live in the Atlanta area and know the school where Masha went to high school. Not a great football school. While I realize he wasn't there last year they went 3-7 and this year 1-4 so far. Its just a weak region. I remember when he was on the LU prospect board I said I'm not so sure about him. It turns out I wasn't far off. Another kid that we went after last year was WR Jalen Camp from South Forsyth. He played in my son's region and was the real deal. Great WR. He committed to LU and then at the 12th hr decommitted and committed to GA Tech. Some may say we could never have convinced him to come to LU over a D1 ACC school like GA Tech. Obviously that was true. But with the exception of Calvin Johnson, Ga Tech is where receivers go to fade away. Paul Johnson doesn't pass the ball. So unless your goal was to be an engineer and you love downtown Atlanta why would you go there? Certainly not for future football possibilities. UGA maybe, but not GA Tech. Could we not have done some selling there??

I must admit I'm wondering if we are as good as we could be in finding talent and getting it to Lynchburg. It wouldn't appear so.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#517999
I think we get talent at some positions. Our WRs have been very solid for as long as our remember. Our defensive line has been great under Gill. Our secondary has had great talent at times. Linebackers have been well above average too. Where we've lacked has been running back and offensive line. Running back obviously has the talent this year so that's improved.

The elephant in the room recruiting wise is at quarterback. This staff brought in Masha who has proven to not be good enough to play quarterback. They also brought in Bradwell who was supposed to be good but couldn't stay in school. Calvert is their third quarterback and he looks to be the part in the future but is still a freshman.
By jcrew4
Registration Days Posts
#518004
All valid points and I'd agree. But it would seem to me that if you want to get to the level of JSU you've got to do better. I know LU will always have a hurdle because its a christian university and some kids don't want to go to school at a christian university. But they give them luxury FCS facility, soon a sweet indoor facility, and they give them stipends. I've been to quite a few FCS schools and LU is Taj Mahal. So many selling points to get great talent. Just like the players need to improve I think the recruiting staff does too.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#518008
"Recruiting staff" is an interesting way to put that. We ran off Charlie Skalaski who was the recruiting coordinator for both Rocco and Gill. He was also a coach. Our recruiting is now being overseen by people who are talented but less experienced from the coaching side of things. The coaching staff is still heavily involved in recruiting, but it's moved to more of an admin role.

We can get talent here. Ken Karcher got talent to Liberty. The question is can we develop them. So far, on the offensive side of the ball, that answer has been no.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#518018
Jonathan Carone wrote:"Recruiting staff" is an interesting way to put that. We ran off Charlie Skalaski who was the recruiting coordinator for both Rocco and Gill. He was also a coach. Our recruiting is now being overseen by people who are talented but less experienced from the coaching side of things. The coaching staff is still heavily involved in recruiting, but it's moved to more of an admin role.

We can get talent here. Ken Karcher got talent to Liberty. The question is can we develop them. So far, on the offensive side of the ball, that answer has been no.
This..this...a THOUSAND times this
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#518020
I agree Jon to a point, but it goes back to recruiting within your offensive style. For an uptempo type of offense youre going to want the size and physicality, but youre also going to want guys who are athletic enough that they can handle running 90-100 plays per game. For running back you want a guy who can handle the middle, but has the speed that he can get either get to the edge or can make one cut in the hole left by the zone blocking and stretched defense that a well oiled uptempo style of play can provide. For the triggerman in all of this, you want a QB with a strong arm (which Calvert has...the accuracy will come up) and keep a defense from stacking the box but also is agile enough and speedy enough to be able to either keep off a zone read or can run option plays either to the outside or off the triple option (which can also be run off the zone read)

I believe we have at least one RB that can fit the uptempo style in Hickson. Macon could be as well. Lewis could be but he is redshirting this year so there isn't as much chance to see him in that style and if he can be another speed option. We definitely have a couple of speed wideouts that we can run on some jet action to stretch the field as well. The question mark I have is with the boys up front
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By LUnpretty11
Registration Days Posts
#522294
Bump. His seat has gone up in Flames. <--- only thing I could think of to break a smile this morning.

Also, Margaux should be banned from social media. Only question is, who fires him now that JB is gone? Maybe Jr. will forget to fire Gill because he is fogetting how bad the football program is as he walks around Trump Tower.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#522296
LUnpretty11 wrote:Bump. His seat has gone up in Flames. <--- only thing I could think of to break a smile this morning.

Also, Margaux should be banned from social media. Only question is, who fires him now that JB is gone? Maybe Jr. will forget to fire Gill because he is fogetting how bad the football program is as he walks around Trump Tower.
Now that's a good question. Obviously the decision has/will come from JR. Whether he will be in the room when it happens......
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#522309
Purple Haize wrote:
LUnpretty11 wrote:Bump. His seat has gone up in Flames. <--- only thing I could think of to break a smile this morning.

Also, Margaux should be banned from social media. Only question is, who fires him now that JB is gone? Maybe Jr. will forget to fire Gill because he is fogetting how bad the football program is as he walks around Trump Tower.
Now that's a good question. Obviously the decision has/will come from JR. Whether he will be in the room when it happens......
Watch to see if TG goes to visit Trump Tower and you'll know!
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#522387
JK37 wrote:Getting a "You're Fired!" from the Donald?
Point being that JR might fire him even as he is hanging out with Trump.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#522390
I'm so all in for a KSU win. I want this to be as awkward and ugly as possible
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#522429
Purple Haize wrote:I'm so all in for a KSU win. I want this to be as awkward and ugly as possible
I can see it happening, especially with Chuck South's QB hurt KSU is on the rise They are a better team now than when we beat them and although they can't get a bid this year, they would LOVE to announce to the FCS they are a force to be reckoned with next year
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